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John Carter - Page 15

post #421 of 544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

No one is a bigger Dune fan that I am, but your memory of its box office performance is quite faulty.

Wow...really? I know virtually any movie can have it's champion, but I'm surprised you could possibly think much of that film. I had hopes for it when it came out, but it was just so gawdawful, so utterly stiff and "off" in virtually every way, it was punishment to sit through it in the theater. Subsequent glimpses of that flick through the years have only served to increase that impression.

It's not surprising it was a Dino De Laurentiis production. Starting at least from King Kong, he had amazing talent for combining braggadocio with the most idiotic production choices, always confusing a sense of showmanship with making good movies. He couldn't seem to find a project he couldn't ruin, or a way to miss-fire on any concept-movie. I mean...King Kong '77, The White Buffalo, Orca...? In a row?

For me De Laurentiis' name on the poster became a warning "stay away, crap ahead." He even managed to drag one of Ingmar Bergman's worst efforts out of him. His resume after Kong pretty much sux (for me) and Dune is just another disappointment.

However, we all have our reasons for the movies we like and I would not argue that someone else ought not like Dune (I'm certain I love movies some others hate), so Josh I'm curious if you'd summarize what you liked about Dune.
post #422 of 544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wytchone View Post

Well you also had to like Ninja movies. The 80's was full of ninjas!!

And chuck Norris was the man.
post #423 of 544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post

Not sure it's Hollywood's fault though, Hollywood wasn't around during the Roman Empire so... I guess the human race digs violence somehow

LOL, well OK....
Have you ever read the details of what would happen in the Colosseum?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colosseum

It really is hard to get one's mind around...


Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Wow...really? I know virtually any movie can have it's champion, but I'm surprised you could possibly think much of that film. I had hopes for it when it came out, but it was just so gawdawful, so utterly stiff and "off" in virtually every way, it was punishment to sit through it in the theater. Subsequent glimpses of that flick through the years have only served to increase that impression.

Rich, I wanna tell ya Josh isn't the ONLY Dune fan around here...


Quote:


so Josh I'm curious if you'd summarize what you liked about Dune.

May I give you my 2 pennies?

The thing about the movie (IMO) is that, like the book (and this is important), the Lynch movie feels and looks "alien."
Yes, this is a sci-fi predominately about homo sapiens, but BUT in an entirely different universe....with a different reality than the one you and I know.
This is the magic of Frank Herbert's Dune....

Familiar, but "alien," this gives it a certain amount of mystery, and a dream-like experience to the viewer.
The key is to forget all about previous Hollywood sci-fi movies and empty one's mind and let it happen.
When you do THAT, it's possible to appreciate what Lynch did with something that would appear to unfilmmable (IMO).
post #424 of 544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

And chuck Norris was the man.

True dat. Missed my only chance to be in a movie with him
post #425 of 544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wytchone View Post



True dat. Missed my only chance to be in a movie with him

Oh no what happened?
post #426 of 544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

Oh no what happened?

Young, bills to pay, living on my own. Could not take off from work to be a xtra/due stunt work for days in texas.
Movie was Sidekicks
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0105402/

The writer of the movie was my teacher at the time.
post #427 of 544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wytchone View Post


Young, bills to pay, living on my own. Could not take off from work to be a xtra/due stunt work for days in texas.
Movie was Sidekicks
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0105402/

The writer of the movie was my teacher at the time.

I remember that film i actually didnt mind it. It sucks when an opportunity happens and it has to be passed.

Btw i didn't know the young kid in it committed suicide. I must of been living under a rock at the time.
post #428 of 544
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

However, we all have our reasons for the movies we like and I would not argue that someone else ought not like Dune (I'm certain I love movies some others hate), so Josh I'm curious if you'd summarize what you liked about Dune.

I don't expect everyone to understand my obsession with the movie, but you can read my defense of the film here:

http://www.mindspring.com/~dunestuff/

De Laurentiis also produced both Manhunter and Blue Velvet, two of the best and most important movies of the '80s.
post #429 of 544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

I don't expect everyone to understand my obsession with the movie, but you can read my defense of the film here:

http://www.mindspring.com/~dunestuff/

De Laurentiis also produced both Manhunter and Blue Velvet, two of the best and most important movies of the '80s.

I enjoy the DUNE. Loved it when it came out, watch it whenever its on. But dang Josh :P
post #430 of 544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

De Laurentiis also produced both Manhunter and Blue Velvet, two of the best and most important movies of the '80s.

You forgot Flash Gordon.
post #431 of 544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wytchone View Post

I enjoy the DUNE. Loved it when it came out, watch it whenever its on. But dang Josh :P

Josh's defense of Dune is inspiring.
If only I was as eloquent and cogent in my appreciation of what Lynch did...
post #432 of 544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

I don't expect everyone to understand my obsession with the movie, but you can read my defense of the film here:

http://www.mindspring.com/~dunestuff/

De Laurentiis also produced both Manhunter and Blue Velvet, two of the best and most important movies of the '80s.

LOL. I shouldn't be surprised that you'd have already written a lengthy defense of this movie. I mean that in a good way.

It looks like a fun read...I'll have time to check it out tomorrow. Thanks!
post #433 of 544
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

Josh's defense of Dune is inspiring.
If only I was as eloquent and cogent in my appreciation of what Lynch did...

I can cut in some scenes with fighting teddybears, if that will help you appreciate the movie more.
post #434 of 544
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovieSwede View Post

I can cut in some scenes with fighting teddybears, if that will help you appreciate the movie more.

LOL...well, my Daddy (GL) may take legal action if you do...
post #435 of 544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

I don't expect everyone to understand my obsession with the movie, but you can read my defense of the film here:

http://www.mindspring.com/~dunestuff/

De Laurentiis also produced both Manhunter and Blue Velvet, two of the best and most important movies of the '80s.

I attempted to create a longer cut of DUNE using the HD-DVD of the theatrical release and the DVD of the extended Alan Smithee cut, but it was such a huge huge huge job requiring so much hard drive space and memory that I found it to be impossible to do it right.

Should I win the 50o0 million mega-million I'll hire an editor for it.

P.S. I really do think DUNE would be greatly helped by the inclusion of at least half of that missing material.
post #436 of 544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens View Post

I attempted to create a longer cut of DUNE using the HD-DVD of the theatrical release and the DVD of the extended Alan Smithee cut, but it was such a huge huge huge job requiring so much hard drive space and memory that I found it to be impossible to do it right.

Use Sony Vegas and it wouldnt take more space then the actual discs.
post #437 of 544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens View Post

I attempted to create a longer cut of DUNE using the HD-DVD of the theatrical release and the DVD of the extended Alan Smithee cut, but it was such a huge huge huge job requiring so much hard drive space and memory that I found it to be impossible to do it right.

Should I win the 50o0 million mega-million I'll hire an editor for it.

If it would help the project, a new Blu-ray of the "Alan Smithee" extended cut was just announced for release in Germany next month.

http://www.amazon.de/Dune-W%C3%BCste...dp/B007HTPZTI/

Quote:


P.S. I really do think DUNE would be greatly helped by the inclusion of at least half of that missing material.

A few of the things in the extended cut would be helpful (I've never understood why Lynch cut the line that explains that the Gom Jabbar is a poison), but the parts of the movie that need the most clarification can't be helped because Lynch was forced to stop shooting footage for those storylines.

The scene where Paul and Jessica are taken in by the Fremen makes no sense at all in either version of the movie. The extra dialogue that would piece the thing together was never filmed.
post #438 of 544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

never understood why Lynch cut the line that explains that the Gom Jabbar is a poison

The threat ITSELF (by the Reverend Mother) implied it was fatal, as in:
RM..."this kills animals"
Paul..."Are you suggesting a Duke's son is an animal?"
RM..."I am suggesting you may be human"
Seems kinda clear to me....


Quote:


The scene where Paul and Jessica are taken in by the Fremen makes no sense at all in either version of the movie. The extra dialogue that would piece the thing together was never filmed.

Much of the novel (and maybe too much) is devoted to describing Fremen culture.
Within the confines of a Hollywood movie it really wasn't feasible to film the depth of Herbert's Fremen on Dune.
And that is why I have always hoped for a multi-year TV series (approx. 1 year for each of the 7 books).
post #439 of 544
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

The threat ITSELF (by the Reverend Mother) implied it was fatal, as in:
RM..."this kills animals"
Paul..."Are you suggesting a Duke's son is an animal?"
RM..."I am suggesting you may be human"
Seems kinda clear to me....

The first line of that exchange in the book is: "I hold at your neck the Gom Jabbar. Don't pull away or you'll feel that poison. A duke's son must know about many poisons. This one kills only animals."

In the movie, the exchange has been condensed to: "I hold at your neck the Gom Jabbar. This one kills only animals." This ONE what? What's a Gom Jabbar? The line doesn't make sense anymore. Putting back the "A duke's son must know about many poisons" would have been a more effective condensation that would have taken took two seconds and made the scene much clearer.

Yes, you can figure out what's going on from context, but given how confused audiences were by all the jargon in the film, this seems like an example that could have easily been given more clarity. The "A duke's son must know about many poisons" line was filmed. It's in the TV cut. This just seems like a stupid edit to me.

Quote:


Within the confines of a Hollywood movie it really wasn't feasible to film the depth of Herbert's Fremen on Dune.
And that is why I have always hoped for a multi-year TV series (approx. 1 year for each of the 7 books).

Do you really want them to adapt the sequels? Have you read them? They get progressively worse with each book - and I'm not even talking about the unreadable bastardizations that Herbert's son has watered down the series with.

We're really getting off the subject of John Carter here, I'm afraid.
post #440 of 544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

This ONE what?

This one "that kills only animals," implying other Gom Jabbars do not.


Quote:


What's a Gom Jabbar?

The nasty sharp thing being held to his neck.

Honestly, I don't understand why you feel this is a problem...the visuals, with accompanying dialog, makes it clear (to me) Paul's life hangs in the balance at that particular moment in time.


Quote:


Do you really want them to adapt the sequels? Have you read them? They get progressively worse with each book

I respectfully disagree.

I have read FH's Dune series many many times, by far my favorite sci-fi series of all...desert island stuff for me.


Quote:


the unreadable bastardizations that Herbert's son has watered down the series with.

PURE money-grabs.


Quote:


We're really getting off the subject of John Carter here, I'm afraid.

True, but like JC, Dune is considered a sci-fi classic...so I guess we're not too far off.
post #441 of 544
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post


Exactly.
Shareholders are quite literally the owners.
If Disney management says the company lost big $$$ and DIDN'T, people will get fired and/or go to jail.
There is no rational reason for Disney executives to lie about it.

^Like I said long ago:
http://www.usatoday.com/money/media/...its/54436422/1
post #442 of 544
I read several articles about the resignation and one a month ago, one where Disney sources threw Stanton under the bus as being responsible for the disaster. Ross was supposed to be safe. Evidently not, the VP or maybe Pres. of Marketing, an industry outsider, that Ross had brought in a year previously, resigned in January, probably because the writing was already on the wall for JC and she was responsible for Mars Needs Moms...another disaster.

As for blaming Stanton...it doesn't hold water for me. He made a pretty darn good picture. Saying he controlled the marketing after the fact is pure blame shifting. Lasseter and Pixar argued about this hotly. JC may never have had a chance...it needed a longer teasing and gestation period to excite an audience larger than over middle aged fan boys familiar with the story. That still might not have been successful. Barraging the public with more, yet again, effects laden scenes without context certainly didn't work. The fan made trailer had it right.
post #443 of 544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Temple View Post

Evidently not, the VP or maybe Pres. of Marketing, an industry outsider, that Ross had brought in a year previously, resigned in January, probably because the writing was already on the wall for JC and she was responsible for Mars Needs Moms...another disaster.

Do you recall the name or something I can Google so I can read about this?


Quote:


Lasseter and Pixar argued about this hotly.

Wasn't aware of that...interesting.


Quote:


JC may never have had a chance...it needed a longer teasing and gestation period to excite an audience larger than over middle aged fan boys familiar with the story. That still might not have been successful.

I think the material is just not right for a successful/profitable major motion picture in the year 2012.
post #444 of 544
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

I think the material is just not right for a successful/profitable major motion picture in the year 2012.

Very few things are. Avatar managed to have perfect timing when it arrived. If it had come out this year when the 3D hype is faded, it wouldnt come close to its success.

A movie must turn into an event to motivate budgets like JC.

Jurassic Park, Titanic, LOTR, Avatar. They all had something JC didnt.
post #445 of 544
Quote:
Originally Posted by movieswede View Post

a movie must turn into an event to motivate budgets like jc.

Jurassic park, titanic, lotr, avatar. They all had something jc didnt.

+1
post #446 of 544
FWIW, I enjoyed JC.

Quote:


Ross, hired by Disney CEO Bob Iger in October 2009, stirred controversy by pushing many seasoned executives out of the studio and hiring outsider MT Carney to run marketing. She left Disney in January. But no doubt his greatest setback was the failure of the big-budget John Carter, which led to a $200 million write-down for the company in March.

http://movies.yahoo.com/news/disney-...165049195.html
post #447 of 544
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovieSwede View Post

Very few things are. Avatar managed to have perfect timing when it arrived. If it had come out this year when the 3D hype is faded, it wouldnt come close to its success.

A movie must turn into an event to motivate budgets like JC.

Jurassic Park, Titanic, LOTR, Avatar. They all had something JC didnt.

Terminator 2.
post #448 of 544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waboman View Post

FWIW, I enjoyed JC.



http://movies.yahoo.com/news/disney-...165049195.html

I can't find anything on this "MT Carney."
She wasn't from the movie biz?
post #449 of 544
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post


I can't find anything on this "MT Carney."
She wasn't from the movie biz?

It's between Mt Hood and Mt Rainier.
post #450 of 544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waboman View Post

It's between Mt Hood and Mt Rainier.

Technically, that would be Mt. St. Helens (aka Mt. Blowntoshit)...technically.
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