Purpose of flat response below 20Hz - Why does it matter? - Page 4

I had no idea whose room it was or where, except that you thought it would be a useful example and I agree with that premise. (Though we think it's a useful example for different things. I think it's a useful example for what not to do.)

If that's your room, is it the one with the high-inductance I-B setup?

Since you've subsequently identified the room as yours, I really like the wall color. Have you thought about paining that cabinet to match? It sticks out in the picture at least.


So basically it was all about the deep bass, and who cares about midbass performance or how colored the mids are? Fair enough.


You're the only one talking about "ultimate." I'm setting the bar rather lower, at "competent." And that mains setup doesn't clear the bar.


I agree generally that audio gear should be heard/felt and not seen. I don't want to see speakers, subwoofers, electronics, etc. in a room either.

That means it requires more thought (and often expensive custom work or time-consuming DIY) to put together a room incorporating high-fidelity audio.

It does not mean that incompetence should be excused or justified.


BS. I could point to any number of pictures that have been posted here over time, but I don't want to look for one when this one suffices quite well to prove my point:




Where's the "all" in that front stage? Unless you mean that the crappy subs' excessive inductance is masked by all the midrange and treble diffraction. But I bet you can really feel that bass!


Again, Penn, you really need to work on your interpretation of plain text. As is usually the case when you reply to me, I never wrote what you're ascribing to me. It's you and not me, because others don't have that same problem. 'm


1. Depends on the program material one enjoys.

2. True, with the caveat that the cheaper ways are usually pretty crappy up higher because they're crude long-coil, no-shorting-ring drivers with very high inductance. So one needs to also put multiple higher-quality (and expensive, if one wants them to keep up with the ULF) subwoofers in the room to cover 40Hz and up if one cares about fidelity.


"Offer solutions?" Get off your high horse. It doesn't take much thought, just volume displacement and power.


Nah. I've recently posted pictures of my current, temporary system's bass measurements, however. The subs are an XLS12+PR in the corner and two KEF HTB2's. (Yes, ultimate SPL is limited, but the bass is scaled appropriately to the small mains.) The setup methodology is Geddes'. For your convenience, I'll reproduce that measurement below:



For the record, the mains are all low-diffraction designs in free space, and the coincident tweeters are all at the same height, crossing in front of the listening position.

I want pictures of the room and speakers. Then I can decide of the whole package is worth the measured response. Just like you are concerned with content and what others might like or not like, many are concerned with overall looks just not a graph

[quote=DS-21;20706998]Do you have any examples of interesting program material - which is to say something that's not a plotless special effects wonder or an Erich Kunzel "sonic spectacular" disk that has ordinance going off to cover up how insipid the interpretation/playing is - that has much content below 16Hz? [quote=DS-21;20706998]

Some of us couldn't care less what's in some Transformers or Hulk movie because, well, that kind of program material is not going to enter our homes.

Periodically, I come across a scene where nothing physical is happening but there is serious tingling on my skin, clothes, seating... The director uses it for a sense of dread or impending action. Great dramatic effect.



Yeah! In the ceiling

NO BOXES...27 liters of displacement, only 2000Watts needed for great bass down to 10Hz. This is better then 6 SVS PB13 subs and it extends lower then they do.....oh wait....it costs about the same as ONE PB13, less then JL Fathoms, less then Seatons submersives, less then the Captivator.....NO BRAINER there.

Find the subwoofer

Here is a picture of behind my screen, when the screen goes up, it is all covered. I also like hiding the speakers and subs. BTW, I took the speaker grills off as well.

For those who want < 15Hz content there are many ways to obtain it and there are many experts on line to help you figure it all out.

I get more spl's on FOTP when the plain rolls than I do with any of the scenes in WOTW. WOTW is a great bass movie, but I only hit 120db max. I get 123db on FOTP

Hey! Central Valley peeps! *waves*



Somehow I think the thread is diverging just a bit from the original topic.

Can we move ahead from the personal attacks and I dunno... help out the OP? Or is there NO answer to that?

Is there enough room under the tent for both POV's?

For many of us there is room. For some, not so much.

I'd say there is, probably for more than just two POV's as well. I'll bring the beer.

Its 100% choice so Im not sure why there is a debate ever month about this.

Depends on who pitches the tent I suppose?

This.

The government hasn't started issuing out subwoofers to the general public while at the same time eliminating all competition for such. Well, maybe just not yet.

With the looming budget cuts, I think we would be stuck with these for sub's.

Add potato salad, baked beans, and a Polish dog! Oh, and a brewski.

Re: The diffraction discussion.

I have also noticed (years ago) Penn's mains in his theater parked far enough back on his subs to cause diffraction, so it isn't just an issue in the family room. I do wish that people would pay more attention to mains placement in respect to diffraction. I see it so often that I have pretty much given up on commenting about it, until now.

That said, most folks have to make lifestyle concessions over sound quality considerations.

Please don't take this as an attack, it is not. Penn already knows I respect his contributions to the community. Mains placement is just kind of a sore spot with me, although my room is far from perfect.

LOL, I believe you put those on the passive radiator and take bites to adjust the weight!

This sounds like a recipe for the brown note.

This thread is awesome and very informative, especially for new members. Some of you folks assert that anything less than a system that is capable of pressurization below 20hz is not worth having. I know this is unintentional. I know some of you just want to explore this hobby to the umpteenth degree. That is fine. However, it distorts real world performance and tastes. I wish there was a thread like this when I started out on this hobby. I would have saved myself a lot of headaches trying different subs and save some cash in the process. I have quite a few of the demo discs. They are not my favorite movies and watching them for a nano-second of infrasonic bursts can be a chore. The Empire is the best sub I have ever owned based on reliability and sound. However, it still gets dismissed for it's design which ignores the 1/10 of 1% of sub 20 material. It hardly matters to some that it "EXCELS" at recreating the 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of listening material(music and movies). Great thread!

Damn. This thread is SO bad-ass that we got a special visit from Morris Chestnut.

You are not the only person in the world that has that problem!








There you go again. All you need is a pair of LMS-5400 and 8000 watts of power. A little bit different system than say a single PB-13!

Coupling a massive-displacement subwoofer to the super structure of a wooden frame home results in exactly what many IB fans allege that box subs do.

IB placement is limited and typically a one-shot stab. It's not likely it will be moved after installation.

The rear wave is a problem.

The weather in my attic is inhospitable to a gila monster let alone subwoofer drivers.

I like the industrial design aspect of subwoofers. I like to change them accordingly, as it's basically a wide open aspect of the hobby.

Still, I think it's an excellent choice, especially vs the huge boxes that low tuned resonant systems call for. Just not my own favorite way to skin a cat.

Bosso

The government would place limits on amplifier power. Think about incandesent light bulbs being banned starting next year!

But what will you own 6 months from now?

JPC, you have won me over. Thank you for that.

I've been watching Steven Seagal movies everyday for the past two weeks. Both US2 and Half Past Dead, included.

Steven Seagal would break the arms and stab the stomachs of ANY subwoofer we try to bring into the kitchen with the master.

"Nobody beats me in the kitchen."


Hell... I'm still waiting for Steven's 'Letterbox 2000'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d82j_Qfp_VA

They would probably issue us with some circa late 90's Atlantic Technology THX Ultra subwoofer or something with a 300w plate amp. It's rated to extend inroom down to 30hz!

Yeah!

and





Now I am a bit confused. The inside sounds are better or the outside sounds are more impressive.

I think we need a few more subjective opinions on the WOTW lighting scene. I have to take a listen to that scene again on my own system.







I will comment on that later on.

To be quite honest, I try and not push that particular scene too hard because I do not use any filter on my LLT and that part is ALL <10hz stuff and my LLT's are tuned to 11hz.

Yup. I have no idea what I am doing. You heard it here first.