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The TV only has component inputs...

post #1 of 37
7/16/11 at 10:00pm
Thread Starter 
Okay, so here's the situation.

Fed up with the fact that my current Tivo has no HD support, and faced with the fact that the Tivo Premiere is terrible, I decided to make the jump to an HTPC.

Using Assassin's wonderful guide, I've spent the last 5 months slowly gathering the parts necessary for an HTPC and a separate media server with which to start digitizing my DVD collection.

I went the Intel I3-2100 route, got an H67 mb, just bought the Ceton card.

Doing this was difficult, at best, due to a fairly low WAF. Common comments are "I don't see the difference with HD", and "digitizing the collection seems silly". I managed to convince her by taking my time buying the parts to spread out the cost, and am finally ready to build.

Only...

We have a TV that, while capable of 1080i, only has component cable inputs. It was bought in 2006, right before HDMI started becoming popular.

When I first started this project, I was more concerned with what parts to get--it never occurred to me that I might face a problem in hooking the thing up. But now, reading up on conversion methods, I find out about analog sunset, the rise of HDCP and a whole bunch of other stuff that indicates that component video is all but dead, and very few recent devices output in component anymore.

Further, I'm looking at my output ports on the board and all I see are HDMI, DVI-D, and VGA. I thought I could just use a VGA to component adapter, only to see the warning from Monoprice that their VGA to component cables won't work if you're trying to connect a computer to an HDTV.

So, the question is...is there any way to hook up the HTPC to an HDTV that only has component input? Buying a new TV is out of the question, as the already-small WAF is not going to extend that far ("our current tv works fine, I told you this was a dumb idea"). I'd rather not buy a discreet video card, as any card that I get is going to be fairly outdated, and will negate the purpose of getting a processor capable of integrated graphics.

I suspect the answer is that it's just easier to get a new tv, but I thought I'd throw the question out to the collective and crossing my fingers.
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post #2 of 37
7/16/11 at 10:27pm
I find it hard to believe you bought a TV in 2006 that doesn't have a DVI.
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post #3 of 37
7/16/11 at 10:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjchavez View Post
only to see the warning from Monoprice that their VGA to component cables won't work if you're trying to connect a computer to an HDTV.
Post a link.
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post #4 of 37
7/16/11 at 11:31pm
Thread Starter 
@schan1269: Yeah, well, I did. It was a black friday $400 deal at a big box store that seemed really great at the time, as I didn't have any devices that required digital inputs.


@MrBobb: http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2
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post #5 of 37
7/17/11 at 3:53am
Take a look at the "ViewHD" device (model VHD-H2YVs) www.U9LTD.com
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post #6 of 37
7/17/11 at 9:02am
Hate to tell you but if you ever plan on using that Ceton card you got, you have no choice but to get a HDCP compliant TV. There is no way around that.
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post #7 of 37
7/17/11 at 6:43pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CountryBumkin View Post

Take a look at the "ViewHD" device (model VHD-H2YVs) www.U9LTD.com

Hmmm....hadn't seen that device but the reviews look good. It may be what I'm looking for. Thanks for the suggestion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zagor View Post

Hate to tell you but if you ever plan on using that Ceton card you got, you have no choice but to get a HDCP compliant TV. There is no way around that.

Do you know if the Ceton card would work with the ViewHD device shown above, or perhaps something like an HDFury2?

Though I must admit, there's something to be said for our current TV having a mysterious accident...
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post #8 of 37
7/18/11 at 2:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjchavez View Post

Do you know if the Ceton card would work with the ViewHD device shown above, or perhaps something like an HDFury2?
.

Tyhey don't make the HDFury anymore. I looked. Found a few around but fur $$$$. That's how I ended up with ViewHD. I don't know about the Ceton but I can't think of any reason it wouldn't work.
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post #9 of 37
7/18/11 at 5:33am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CountryBumkin View Post

Tyhey don't make the HDFury anymore. I looked. Found a few around but fur $$$$. That's how I ended up with ViewHD. I don't know about the Ceton but I can't think of any reason it wouldn't work.

Yeah, that's what I thought too; I wasn't able to even find that it existed when looking for solutions. Saw a chance mention of it in a different thread, and found that they're still selling them directly to the consumer: http://www.hdfury.com/. You're absolutely right about it being expensive though, with the HDFury2 starting around $175. Still far cheaper than buying a new TV though.

If you yourself have the ViewHD though, that's as good a recommendation I can get and I may go with that, unless I can find a HDFury on Ebay or something. Thanks again for the advice--it was a great help.
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post #10 of 37
7/18/11 at 5:40am
My bottom of the line Olevia LCD TV I bought on BlackFriday 2006 has HDMI, my dad's middle of the line Rear Projection bought in 2005 has HDMI...

What make/model TV do you have? lol...
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post #11 of 37
7/18/11 at 6:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjchavez View Post

Do you know if the Ceton card would work with the ViewHD device shown above, or perhaps something like an HDFury2?

Though I must admit, there's something to be said for our current TV having a mysterious accident...

The ViewHD doesn't mention HDCP at all so I really don't know. Since CountryBumkin has one, maybe he can run the cablecard test and see if it passes.
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post #12 of 37
7/18/11 at 6:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zagor View Post

The ViewHD doesn't mention HDCP at all so I really don't know. Since CountryBumkin has one, maybe he can run the cablecard test and see if it passes.

I was not able to use the ViewHD for my intended purposes. I have an old TV (480p max but has component inputs) in one of the bedrooms and I wanted to steam my movies to it via Revo computer (which only has HDMI and VGA outputs) so I bought the ViewHD last week but it would not work (couldn't get resolution low enough for tv). So vendor said return it. I'm packaging it up now to send back.
Since your TV is HD, it should work. Don't know about the HCDP though - I don't have a cable card to test with for you.
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post #13 of 37
7/18/11 at 7:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by CountryBumkin View Post

I was not able to use the ViewHD for my intended purposes. I have an old TV (480p max but has component inputs) in one of the bedrooms and I wanted to steam my movies to it via Revo computer (which only has HDMI and VGA outputs) so I bought the ViewHD last week but it would not work (couldn't get resolution low enough for tv). So vendor said return it. I'm packaging it up now to send back.
Since your TV is HD, it should work. Don't know about the HCDP though - I don't have a cable card to test with for you.

Well, since you no longer have it then it's a moot point but you don't need to have a cablecard to run the cablecard advisor to check and see it your current setup would pass the cablecard requirements. There is a utility in WMC "extras gallery" menu. You would just run that and see what it says.
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post #14 of 37
7/18/11 at 8:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zagor View Post

Well, since you no longer have it then it's a moot point but you don't need to have a cablecard to run the cablecard advisor to check and see it your current setup would pass the cablecard requirements. There is a utility in WMC "extras gallery" menu. You would just run that and see what it says.

I still have it. I'll try it out tonight.
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post #15 of 37
7/18/11 at 8:28am
Thread Starter 
Well, looking at the reviews on Amazon, as well as some other places around the web, the ViewHD appears to be an HDCP stripper, along the lines of the HDFury; I see no reason that it would not work if that's indeed what it is. Outputs all the way up to 1080p, so that's all well and good. The only question I guess is whether the HDMI inputs are 1.2 or 1.3. As the description is vague, I'm going to guess 1.2.

All in all, it should work, so I may give it a try if I can't score an HDFury (which we know works) for cheap on Ebay. If I do get it, I'll report back with how it works with the Ceton.

Thanks again for all the suggestions. The situation doesn't seem nearly as hopeless as it did yesterday.

@ngsm13: I'm not really sure why it matters, as the only salient point is that it doesn't have HDMI inputs, and while HDMI was indeed being sold 5 years ago, there were still many models out that did not have it, especially considering that the HDCP block wasn't decided upon until sometime in July 2006. Even then, there was no sure date as to when it was going to be applied, and it wasn't exactly something that was being advertised to watch out for when buying TV's. I looked, found a plasma with a picture quality I liked, and bought. I didn't know I had to be paying attention to inputs. But, FYI, it's a Sylvania plasma, not sure on the model number.
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post #16 of 37
7/18/11 at 9:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjchavez View Post

The only question I guess is whether the HDMI inputs are 1.2 or 1.3. As the description is vague, I'm going to guess 1.2.

I don't see why that would really matter. It is highly unlikely that your tv will accept 1080p on the component inputs. You're probably limited to 720p or 1080i.
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post #17 of 37
7/18/11 at 9:34am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek K. View Post

I don't see why that would really matter. It is highly unlikely that your tv will accept 1080p on the component inputs. You're probably limited to 720p or 1080i.

For me personally? No, I don't think it's important. My TV only goes up to 1080i. However, component video is quite capable of performing at 1080p, so others who are in the same situation and happen across this thread may indeed find it important.
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post #18 of 37
7/18/11 at 2:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CountryBumkin View Post

I still have it. I'll try it out tonight.

Okay, I went into Media Center and ran the Cable TV Advisor. First I ran it on my NEC computer monitor and it installed/downloaded some software and then said "my system was now setup for cable". Then I ran it on my Samsung LCD TV and it said "your system is already setup" or something to that effect. Then I hooked up the ViewHD box (HDMI from computer to ViewHD box, and component cables from box to samsung). Ran the advisor again, it said "your system is already setup" or such. Not sure if I learened anything from this test. There was no mention of "not being HDCP compliant".
BTW, the device had a perfect picture at 1920x1080 with component input (although there was some overscan).

Packagaed everything up and will send it back this week. I wish I could have gotten it to work with my old TV though. I still have one TV left in the house that is not connecvted to my movie server. I guess I'll have to buy a new TV with HDMI inputs now.
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post #19 of 37
7/18/11 at 11:37pm
I bought a VHD-H2YVs today to try and accomplish something a little different.
I have a home theater PC setup using Windows 7 Media Center and a few weeks ago switched from using a pair of cableboxes and Hauppauge HD PVR to a Ceton InfiniTV Cablecard adapter to record premium content in HD. Unfortunately the downside of using te cablecard as opposed to the original configuration is that because of DRM (Digital Rights Management) I can no longer tranfer the recordings to DVD or Blu Ray.

That is where the VHD-H2YVs comes it by using the cloned HDMI output of my computer's videocard fed into the VHD-H2YVs and its component output connected to a HD PVR I should be able to re-encode sans the copy protection in real time. Once this is done I can edit out commercials, create chapters and copy to DVD or Blu Ray.
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post #20 of 37
7/19/11 at 3:26am
I bought on ebay one of those gizmos to convert HDMI to component video + stereo audio for about 50$ including shipping.

http://i55.tinypic.com/bjj3hk.jpg
Just put in your search: (component,YPbPr,rgb) (hdmi to,dvi to) -(to hdmi,to vga)

It's great! It works perfectly, sends audio through as well if you only use stereo.

Only problem is if you want to use it on non-HD TV that was component. You'd have to configure the video source to FORCE NTSC on the component adapter. (My computer does not detect the proper NTSC resolution/timing, so I had to do a custom config myself).
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post #21 of 37
7/19/11 at 5:44am
You need to find an older video car like the Nvidia 9000 series or older than uses a component dongle. Hooks right up to older TV's, what model # is your TV?
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post #22 of 37
7/19/11 at 6:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by CountryBumkin View Post

Tyhey don't make the HDFury anymore. I looked.

HDfury is shipping everyday from HDfury.com
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post #23 of 37
7/19/11 at 3:05pm
I've got a ATI HD 4670 card by HIS that has component output on it.
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post #24 of 37
7/27/11 at 7:30pm
Thread Starter 
Quick update...I ordered the ViewHD linked above and received it today. So far, so good. Hookup was easy and it doesn't appear to have any issues displaying at 1080i. The best thing I can say is that it just worked right out of the box....hooked up through the HDMI port on the HTPC to the ViewHD, hooked that up to the TV, turned on the computer, and we were in business. It doesn't look like there's any particular degradation of the image, but as I'm still setting up the computer, I haven't attempted to play a DVD, bluray or MKV. That'll be next.
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post #25 of 37
10/6/11 at 9:54am
I'm interested in the VHD-H2YVs as well.
Please post back with how it's working out for you.
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post #26 of 37
10/6/11 at 10:38am
Get an older ATI card with support of component out.
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post #27 of 37
10/6/11 at 10:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjchavez View Post

Okay, so here's the situation.

But now, reading up on conversion methods, I find out about analog sunset, the rise of HDCP and a whole bunch of other stuff that indicates that component video is all but dead, and very few recent devices output in component anymore.

The rumors of component video's demise are greatly exagerrated.

It is for people just like you that the FCC has prohibited by regulation, and by all indications will continue for the foreseeable future to prohibit, the use of Selectable Output Controls by cable and satellite companies.

FCC regulations provide:

§ 76.1903 Interfaces.
A covered entity shall not attach or embed data or information with commercial
audiovisual content, or otherwise apply to, associate with, or allow
such data to persist in or remain associated with such content, so as to prevent
its output through any analog or digital output authorized or permitted
under license, law or regulation governing such covered product.

The industry has been trying to change this for years. Regardless of political party in power in Washingtin, they have been unsuccesful. The FCC recognizes there are a LOT of early adopters with only component inputs who would be cut off from programming. Last May, the FCC granted a very limited exception to this rule to permit the studios to implement SOC on NEW early-release PPV movies but only until they are released on DVD or BD, and for only a maximum of 90 days. So if you don't watch PPV movies, or can wait 90 days, this won't effect you at all. None of your other cable or satellite channels - not even premium channels - are affected.

The Internet universe has recently been in full panic mode because DirecTV and others have rolled out this service and people have gotten messages that "this content can only be viewed with an HDMI connection" or something to this effect. Again, the content to which this block applies is very limited, and the term of this block is short. That reality is either completely unknown or totally ignored in the various forums in which the panic has taken hold.

The FCC has given no hint that it intends to abolish its SOC prohibition altogether. The conclusion in its May 2010 Order said

"When the Commission adopted the prohibition on SOC, it specifically contemplated waivers for high value content to facilitate new business models. MPAA member companies have proposed a new business model – films available to consumers for in-home viewing earlier in the release process – and have made a compelling argument that they will not introduce that new business model in the absence of the content protection that SOC affords. Our SOC prohibition serves an important purpose in ensuring that owners of legacy television sets continue to receive the programming that they are accustomed to receiving. Given that the service that MPAA member companies propose will not affect any currently existing programming services, we conclude that the benefits of the new service outweigh any potential harms that could result from waiver as limited above. Therefore, we grant MPAA’s waiver request in part and deny it in part, as set forth in this order."

If your TV is otherwise working fine, I wouldn't replace it now just because of some unfounded fear that it soon won't be able to connect to anything.

If you like, you can read the FCC's Order for yourself here:

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...A-10-795A1.pdf

I will add one additional caveat - I do not know whether the prohibition on SOC applies to cable/satellite VOD. It may be that they can block analog access to that content, but I don't know that answer to that.

Second caveat - this rule also does not apply to BD players. Indeed, new BD players will not have component video outputs. How computer Blu Ray players/recorders will work is anyone's guess.
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post #28 of 37
10/6/11 at 11:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjchavez View Post

Well, looking at the reviews on Amazon, as well as some other places around the web, the ViewHD appears to be an HDCP stripper, along the lines of the HDFury

Indeed, it is curious that these two devices appear to be identical:


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post #29 of 37
10/6/11 at 11:14am
Regarding HDCP and component:

My 360 has an hdmi port but seems to have a major problem with HDCP. No cables work and I've tried it on several tvs (all of which were compliant).

As such, when I try to watch HBO with the Xbox connected via hdmi I get an HDCP error. Connecting it via component eliminates the problem.

I have the same issue with HD-DVD.

So I think you must have a compliant video card, but if you are using an analog video connection I am not sure it matters.
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post #30 of 37
10/6/11 at 12:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelation View Post

Get an older ATI card with support of component out.

I'm using an Acer Revo 1600 Atom/Ion which doesn't have a separate video card.
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