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Homeland on SHO - Page 36

post #1051 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce73 View Post

A corny plot device doesn't necessarily defy logic.

If we saw what happens on the news in a TV show sometimes, we'd go "what? ..that would never happen in the real world!" wink.gif
post #1052 of 1773
A wire coming loose on a one-off hand built bomb is far more believable than a highly trained and regimented military character acting like a 7 year old looking for Easter eggs.


Edited by HD Hockey Guy - 12/12/12 at 7:05am
post #1053 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp1080 View Post

Wait a minute stop right there, logic and normal tactical procedures don't apply anymore on this show. For example it's okay to break silence and split up from your team while talking to an agent with no protective gear on because they want her to be "seen" easier without it! I truly believe that some of the posters on here are so in love with "Carrie" and the show that they refuse to see it is slowly turning into another "24". The first season was suspenseful and should have been the end of Brody then and there. The show was realistic then but not now, Just my 2 cents

Well I am one that really havent had as big of an issue with some of the stretches they have made, but I DO agree they ahve been pushing the lines this season. I didnt watch 24, so I dont have any anger to bring forward, which seems to be a lot of what is happening here, thus the constant mentions of 24 (and yes I know the link).....Maybe those angry just cant get over what happened with 24????
post #1054 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post

...there's one detail that bothers me. How did exactly Saul find out about Estes/Quinn's agenda regarding Brody? Simply after his little chat with F. Murray Abraham? I must have missed something cause I kept wondering during his meeting with Estes.

As it as already discussed, Saul was doing his job, he was assuming a lot, but Estes verified everything for him. This goes back a few epsiodes when Saul got the information on Quinn, when he found his Apartment and then had him followed. Once he found out that Quinn was really working with FMA, he knew WHAT Quinn was, and FMA confimred it. He put 2 and 2 together and when he confronted Estes about it, Estes confirmed it. FMA said he was "one of his", by this he mean a Black Ops soldier, the only reason to have one of FMAs guys around would be to kill someone, since Estes always sent Quinn with Brody, Saul knew the next logical step would be to kill Brody and "erase" this mess that happened under Estes's watch....The converstation with FMA was jsut a small aprt of a a number of scenes that showed Saul putting the pieces togther....

Quote:
Originally Posted by HD Hockey Guy View Post

Funny that shows like Boarwalk Empire somehow manage to stay within the rules of the environment they have created. It's called continuity and well written and produced shows have it in spades. It is not hard to throw in a k-9 unit and some night vision goggles and have them STILL not find him. It's not hard to direct the scene and have the entire tactical team stumble onto his hiding place and then see him fleeing and corner him to the same ending with no change to the plot. It is lazy to shoot the scene the way they did and it's irritating for a show based on today's real life issues and even stealing from real storylines. I expect more from a show that wins awards. This isn't Game of Thrones for crying out loud where you can just spin it out as "magic". Did Brody become a Islamic Wizard and cast a spell on his phone to prevent it from being monitored?
People deserve and expect more for $3 million per episode.

While the night vision might have been useful, whos to say the dogs werent used....as it was said, by the time Carrie got back, there was one team left, which she took back in, while I agree this was a little crazy, it followed the earlier scene which Quinn went in the same way......Quinn, gathered the rest of the "crew" in response to Carrie's call when she said she was going back in.....I dont think this is anywhere near GoT fantasy level, but there have been some major jumps made for dramatic tension.....

Im still enjoying this show though, but maybe thats because I am not trying to analyze each and every scene for how realistic it is.....
post #1055 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

As it as already discussed, Saul was doing his job, he was assuming a lot, but Estes verified everything for him. This goes back a few epsiodes when Saul got the information on Quinn, when he found his Apartment and then had him followed. Once he found out that Quinn was really working with FMA, he knew WHAT Quinn was, and FMA confimred it. He put 2 and 2 together and when he confronted Estes about it, Estes confirmed it. FMA said he was "one of his", by this he mean a Black Ops soldier, the only reason to have one of FMAs guys around would be to kill someone, since Estes always sent Quinn with Brody, Saul knew the next logical step would be to kill Brody and "erase" this mess that happened under Estes's watch....The converstation with FMA was jsut a small aprt of a a number of scenes that showed Saul putting the pieces togther....

Thanks for the recap smile.gif
post #1056 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Well I am one that really havent had as big of an issue with some of the stretches they have made, but I DO agree they ahve been pushing the lines this season. I didnt watch 24, so I dont have any anger to bring forward, which seems to be a lot of what is happening here, thus the constant mentions of 24 (and yes I know the link).....Maybe those angry just cant get over what happened with 24????

Ph8te,

Why would you assume that it's "anger"? Whom in particular is angry about it? I enjoyed 24 once I let go and just went along for the ride. I didn't even really get bent out of shape by the Cougar and Kim as others on here did at that time! Maybe if you had watched 24 you would most likely see the correlation. It's the same thing that has been brought up by others and that is lazy writing in some episodes. I just do not seem to recall this many stretches in the first season. It seemed to start with the malfunctioning vest bomb and being able to communicate inside a secure bunker on a cell phone! Oh and by the way I don't think it's analyzing each scene it's the fact that the show is flowing smoothly and then all of a sudden a what just happened moment occurrs and you are more or less forced to think about.
Edited by Sharp1080 - 12/12/12 at 8:33am
post #1057 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

While the night vision might have been useful, whos to say the dogs werent used....as it was said, by the time Carrie got back, there was one team left, which she took back in, while I agree this was a little crazy, it followed the earlier scene which Quinn went in the same way......Quinn, gathered the rest of the "crew" in response to Carrie's call when she said she was going back in.....I dont think this is anywhere near GoT fantasy level, but there have been some major jumps made for dramatic tension.....
Im still enjoying this show though, but maybe thats because I am not trying to analyze each and every scene for how realistic it is.....

 

Dogs would have easily sniffed out Nazir's hideout.  Since Nazir's hideout was not discovered, and we never saw any search dogs, I think its pretty safe to say that dogs weren't used.     It wasn't just that Carrie went in with the last remaining team.  The way they got separated from the main group was a joke.   And then they proceed into Nazir's hideout without calling the team back?   That's not a jump for dramatic tension, its the opposite.   I'm sitting there thinking about how unrealistic the scene is instead of getting pulled in to the moment.  

post #1058 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by edpowers View Post

The way they got separated from the main group was a joke.   And then they proceed into Nazir's hideout without calling the team back?

Right before the lone FBI member decided to finally call for backup I said to myself "I guarantee his radio won't work for some reason."

As mentioned by Sharp above, I just don't recall this many reaches in Season 1.
post #1059 of 1773
Its funny how the response to pointing out a lack of realism is always the same. The advice to watch documentaries is always offerred, as is being called a nitpicker. I guess its a form of killing the messenger...we all willingly suspend disbelief every time we watch or read fiction. As long as we can believe its possible most are more than willing to accept some implausibility in return for the entertainment provided. For me the best drama walks the ledge between possible and impossible and I have no problem accepting implausibility as long as the drama stays true to itself. But when the show violates its own rules the effect is jarring and then everything is called into question. Homeland crossed the line for me the last two episodes, as it seems to have for a lot of viewers. There are still a lot of things I love about the show so I'll keep watching. But I have had to adjust my expectations
post #1060 of 1773
Don't need any dogs, Carrie sniffed out Nazir with her nose.. I agree, its check your brain at the door time with these flaws.. But can't wait for the season finale like everyone..smile.gif
post #1061 of 1773
Well put wolf.

And I don't know about other critics of the last few shows, but I didn't watch 24 more than 5 or 6 episodes the first season. My BS meter broke when the lack of LA traffic allowed him to teleport instantly around the city in mere minutes of the ever ticking and present clock and hospital surgeries were done faster than microwave popcorn. They broke their own rules and shattered the very premise the show was anchored in. I fear the same is becoming more the standard than the exception here in the name of fabricating suspense or at least confusion.
post #1062 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by lonwolf615 View Post

Its funny how the response to pointing out a lack of realism is always the same. The advice to watch documentaries is always offerred, as is being called a nitpicker. I guess its a form of killing the messenger...we all willingly suspend disbelief every time we watch or read fiction. As long as we can believe its possible most are more than willing to accept some implausibility in return for the entertainment provided. For me the best drama walks the ledge between possible and impossible and I have no problem accepting implausibility as long as the drama stays true to itself. But when the show violates its own rules the effect is jarring and then everything is called into question. Homeland crossed the line for me the last two episodes, as it seems to have for a lot of viewers. There are still a lot of things I love about the show so I'll keep watching. But I have had to adjust my expectations

Pretty much my thoughts in a nutshell.
post #1063 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by taxman48 View Post

Don't need any dogs, Carrie sniffed out Nazir with her nose.. I agree, its check your brain at the door time with these flaws.. But can't wait for the season finale like everyone..smile.gif

Absolutely! Like a lot of shows, Homeland requires more than its fair share of suspension of disbelief. So what though? If the effectiveness of the drama makes that possible, which it does for me in spades, a little preposterousness in the storytelling is well worth it. I don't disagree with the points made about Homeland's not infrequent lack of realism but I don't care. I care about Carrie, Brody, Saul, and Jessica but detest Estes, as I did the VP and Abu Nazir before their richly deserved deaths. The rest is window-dressing, it seems to me. Be warned, though, I stuck with 24 from beginning to end and loved it most of the way, so consider the source.smile.gif
post #1064 of 1773
Off topic and name-calling posts removed. Let's keep it civil.
post #1065 of 1773
Just read an article in the NY Post about the 5 must see movies before years end. One review in particular stood out for me. The movie is called "Zero Dark Thirty". Quoting the review : The story follows an obsessed CIA officer (Jessica Chastain) over the 10 years it took the intelligence agency to track down the famed terrorist mastermind. Sounds familiar..hmmm..eek.gif

http://www.nypost.com/p/entertainment/movies/five_movies_to_see_before_the_new_UmjtIGh9jYmuRMrDGpJr4M
post #1066 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by taxman48 View Post

Just read an article in the NY Post about the 5 must see movies before years end. One review in particular stood out for me. The movie is called "Zero Dark Thirty". Quoting the review : The story follows an obsessed CIA officer (Jessica Chastain) over the 10 years it took the intelligence agency to track down the famed terrorist mastermind. Sounds familiar..hmmm..eek.gif
http://www.nypost.com/p/entertainment/movies/five_movies_to_see_before_the_new_UmjtIGh9jYmuRMrDGpJr4M

This is more of art imitating life -- there actually is a female agent who tracked Bin Laden down.
post #1067 of 1773
Just as a sidebar has anyone seen the show this one was based on? I believe it's and Israeli show, but I can't remember the name at the moment.
post #1068 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Just as a sidebar has anyone seen the show this one was based on? I believe it's and Israeli show, but I can't remember the name at the moment.
It's called "Hatufim".

I've been searching for an English sub-titled release of the show but have only found a Region 2 release at Amazon which is about $60, or a $32 copy at Amazon.uk not including shipping. It would be nice if it showed up on one of the streaming services as those prices are a bit steep for my wallet.
post #1069 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by keenan View Post

It's called "Hatufim".
I've been searching for an English sub-titled release of the show but have only found a Region 2 release at Amazon which is about $60, or a $32 copy at Amazon.uk not including shipping. It would be nice if it showed up on one of the streaming services as those prices are a bit steep for my wallet.

http://www.hulu.com/prisoners-of-war Not sure if this is subbed....

It was released in the UK so there shoud be something out there......Looks like the second season is currently showing.....
post #1070 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by taxman48 View Post

Just read an article in the NY Post about the 5 must see movies before years end. One review in particular stood out for me. The movie is called "Zero Dark Thirty". Quoting the review : The story follows an obsessed CIA officer (Jessica Chastain) over the 10 years it took the intelligence agency to track down the famed terrorist mastermind. Sounds familiar..hmmm..eek.gif
http://www.nypost.com/p/entertainment/movies/five_movies_to_see_before_the_new_UmjtIGh9jYmuRMrDGpJr4M

Zero Dark Thirty is the new film from Kathryn Bigelow (The Hurt Locker). It is high on my To Do list to see when it opens of January 11. The previews look great and the cast has a bunch of my favorite actors including but not limited to Jason Clarke, Jessica Chastain, and Jennifer Ehle.
post #1071 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

Zero Dark Thirty is the new film from Kathryn Bigelow (The Hurt Locker). It is high on my To Do list to see when it opens of January 11. The previews look great and the cast has a bunch of my favorite actors including but not limited to Jason Clarke, Jessica Chastain, and Jennifer Ehle.

A friend of mine saw Zero Dark Thirty (he's a movie reviewer) and said it's absolutely incredible and should win tons of awards, including Best Picture.
post #1072 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

Zero Dark Thirty is the new film from Kathryn Bigelow (The Hurt Locker). It is high on my To Do list to see when it opens of January 11. The previews look great and the cast has a bunch of my favorite actors including but not limited to Jason Clarke, Jessica Chastain, and Jennifer Ehle.

I'm still not sure if a movie like this, on this particular and specific subject, was needed now. Regardless of its quality. With that said, I'll probably wait for the Blu-ray.
post #1073 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post

I'm still not sure if a movie like this, on this particular and specific subject, was needed now. Regardless of its quality. With that said, I'll probably wait for the Blu-ray.

As controversial as Seal Team Six's assassination of Bin Laden and the interrogation techniques used to get the information that lead to the operation were, I have confidence in Bigelow to tell the story fairly. She has said that she had no political agenda and wanted the show the complexity of the issues. If she can come even close to having as good a picture in Zero Dark Thirty as The Hurt Locker was, we are in for a treat.
post #1074 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

http://www.hulu.com/prisoners-of-war Not sure if this is subbed....
It was released in the UK so there shoud be something out there......Looks like the second season is currently showing.....
Thanks for finding that!

I've never been much of a Hulu user but I took a look at the first few minutes and it is sub-titled, although the image quality via the browser is barely adequate. Could be the source material but I would think that Israel has HDTV by now? I'll see what it looks like on the PS3 tonight, hopefully it's a better quality stream.
post #1075 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

As controversial as Seal Team Six's assassination of Bin Laden and the interrogation techniques used to get the information that lead to the operation were, I have confidence in Bigelow to tell the story fairly. She has said that she had no political agenda and wanted the show the complexity of the issues. If she can come even close to having as good a picture in Zero Dark Thirty as The Hurt Locker was, we are in for a treat.

Not to piss in your cornflakes, but .... http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/14/zero-dark-thirty-cia-propaganda

A treat to some people in a sense - I agree
post #1076 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by keenan View Post

Thanks for finding that!
I've never been much of a Hulu user but I took a look at the first few minutes and it is sub-titled, although the image quality via the browser is barely adequate. Could be the source material but I would think that Israel has HDTV by now? I'll see what it looks like on the PS3 tonight, hopefully it's a better quality stream.

It was in HD overseas, but Im not sure if Hulu got the rights to the HD version..The quality may be samething you have to live with.......
post #1077 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post

I'm still not sure if a movie like this, on this particular and specific subject, was needed now. Regardless of its quality. With that said, I'll probably wait for the Blu-ray.
They had actually started to make a slightly different film then had to start over again once Bin Laden was killed. While watching I wondered just how much Bin Laden and Zero played into this episode. looking forward to the finale.
post #1078 of 1773
post #1079 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedeskE View Post

Not to piss in your cornflakes, but .... http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/14/zero-dark-thirty-cia-propaganda
A treat to some people in a sense - I agree

I've read a few reviews of Seal Team Six that were less than complimentary. I thought they weren't terribly credible, though. The position of the critic in each of them was that the enhanced interrogation techniques used were horribly wrong and should not be presented as anything less than horribly wrong under any circumstances. See for example this review in The New Yorker, which espoused such a position. That review and the one you linked to, however seem to be in a distinct minority. A remarkable 97 percent of the reviews of Zero Dark Thirty collected at Rotten Tomatoes were positive. My view of the film, based on what I have read about it, is articulately stated by the critic Stephanie Zacharek:
Quote:
Bigelow and her screenwriter Mark Boal [operate] from the idea that doubt is dynamic, while moral certainty is just another kind of stasis.

As noted in an earlier post, though, it's an emotional issue and those who reject the notion that there is ever a justification for the use of enhanced interrogation are going to hate the film. I may end up hating Zero Dark Thirty, too, but I still want to see it.

All of this talk about moral ambiguity makes me want to see the Homeland season finale more than ever. Is it Sunday yet?smile.gif
post #1080 of 1773
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