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Homeland on SHO - Page 38

post #1111 of 1773
Alex Gansa and Howard Gordon spoke at length in their media conference call. Lots of season 2 stuff as well as season 3 possibilities.
post #1112 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

First, as we have seen over and over again on Homeland, nobody knows Brody like his daughter, Dana. Dana flatly told the pissed off CIA guys that her daddy wasn't responsible for the CIA atrocity. I believed her.
I loved the way the scenes in the early part of the show played out. When Quinn had Brody centered in his rifle's telescopic sight, I thought that Quinn of all people should realize than Brody was no longer a national security threat but was no more than a political liability to Estes' future career. Consequently, I really enjoyed Quinn's scene in Estes' bedroom in which Quinn said just that and told Estes he would kill him if Estes didn't call off the hit on Brody. Like Quinn, I am now satisfied that Brody really isn't a terrorist anymore. In this connection, I confess that I couldn't help but feeling a little glad that the murderous careerist, Estes, was one of the victims of the terrorist attack on CIA headquarters.
Poor Carrie! Seeing her trapped between her love for Brody and her devotion to her job overlaid with her emotional fragility, has been heartbreaking. Although she has decided to return to the CIA, she is paying a big price for her loyalty to the agency. Claire Danes performance as Carrie in the finale was wonderful.
I trust Saul. I think he has a moral compass and would never, ever, do anything that threatened the security of the United States.
I thought the Season 2 finale was deeply satisfying and one of the all time best episodes of the series. I am really looking forward to Season 3.

I agree. Most of the time, when you hear hooves, it's horses, not zebras. I'm just don't think the writers are as convoluted as some around here would like to believe.

I DO think, though, that the whole scene of Carrie and Brody leaving the service seemed like a clumsy plot device, too convenient by half. Maybe it's a tribute to the show that such things bother me--I was always willing to totally suspend disbelief during '24'.
post #1113 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post


Makes sense. Also, did anyone else notice how mad Saul got when Carrie said she was going to the memorial with Brody? Saul trying to plead with her not to be with him. If he knew that place was going to blow then he was trying to do whatever he could to make sure she wouldn't be there.

Saul wasn't trying to convince Carrie not to go to the memorial with Brodie, he was trying to convince her not to leave the CIA for Brodie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scowl View Post

...
Just like last season, Brody chickens out at the last moment. Brody sits and waits for death and everlasting life but then decides he wants to live, so he decides to split and signals for Carrie to come too (you don't leave in the middle of a memorial service!). Brody takes Carrie to someplace where he thinks they'll be safe from the explosion.
...

Carrie signaled to Brodie for them to leave and Carrie led Brodie to the (Saul's ?) office -- not the other way around.
post #1114 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by scowl View Post

My guess (probably until I see it again) is that this was Brody's second attempt at a suicide bombing. Before the memorial, Brody has a quick trip to the cabin with Carrie just like old times. He prays to Allah for the first time (we've seen) in a long time. He's somewhat dismissive when Carrie starts talking about long term plans together. He buys Mike a beer and tells him that he can go back to taking care of Jess and the kids (sounds a little more than a divorce in the works here). Just before Brody heads to the memorial, Dana shows off her ESP abilities and out of nowhere brings up that time when he was getting dressed with the bomb vest.
Just like last season, Brody chickens out at the last moment. Brody sits and waits for death and everlasting life but then decides he wants to live, so he decides to split and signals for Carrie to come too (you don't leave in the middle of a memorial service!). Brody takes Carrie to someplace where he thinks they'll be safe from the explosion. Uh oh, that bomb! Now that he's going to live, what will Carrie think when they figure out it was his car? Think think think, Brody!
"Hey, somebody moved my car!" Isn't that an odd thing to notice when you're about to have sex? It will convince a bipolar woman with the emotional maturity of a thirteen year old girl but no one else. Boom! Looks like he timed it a little too close. Of course stupid stupid stupid Carrie buys his story that unknown terrorists are framing him for a similar crime he almost committed. No one else will. Hey, what did you and Nazir talk about when you went on the helicopter ride?

Probably not much. We've seen Nazir "talk" to him and threaten his family though.

It's obvious that Brody didn't do it! How come his tape was on the news while everyone in the CIA knows this tape has nothing to do with *this* attack? He's being framed it's more than obvious. By who that's for season 3. You really want him to be the bad guy but he's not.
post #1115 of 1773
The plot device of Brody's SUV being parked just outside the glass walled auditorium really bugged me. Does anyone here fly through our airports? If you do, you undoubtably have noticed how sensitive the airport security folks are about any unattended vehicle near curbside drop off/pickup; they will have the vehicle towed rather than wait to see if someone comes back. In fact, if the driver tries to leave a vehicle at the curb, even for just a moment, security will not allow that to happen.

Now, imagine just how tight security must be in the parking lot at the CIA. There is no way in the world that security would allow an unattended vehicle to be left anywhere near the building, much less during a ceremony such as this. It's completely bogus. COMPLETELY. After the bombing of the federal building in Oklahoma City, does anyone think there is any way possible that security at the CIA would allow, much less not notice, a large SUV left where it doesn't belong?
post #1116 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by jandron View Post

I agree. Most of the time, when you hear hooves, it's horses, not zebras. I'm just don't think the writers are as convoluted as some around here would like to believe.

Yep, Occam's razor and all that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post

It's obvious that Brody didn't do it! How come his tape was on the news while everyone in the CIA knows this tape has nothing to do with *this* attack? He's being framed it's more than obvious. By who that's for season 3..
That's a great point! The people at the CIA, of all people, should have immediately recognized that Brody's videotape related to the plot to blowup the VP in the bunker and had nothing to do with the later plot to blow up CIA HQ. I hate to have to wait nearly a year to learn what the truth was but there it is.smile.gif
post #1117 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

Yep, Occam's razor and all that.
That's a great point! The people at the CIA, of all people, should have immediately recognized that Brody's videotape related to the plot to blowup the VP in the bunker and had nothing to do with the later plot to blow up CIA HQ.

Carrie was probably the only one left (alive wink.gif) who knew about the videotape. If she still had doubts, seeing it on the news most likely convinced her that he was innocent and he was (once again) telling the truth. Saul looking for her and seeing her at the very end were moving moments. Mandy Patinkin is so good! One line or two, one look and he has us weeping wink.gif I'm glad he's in charge now. Maybe he will think for a while that Brody did it but I'm sure the evidence will show up and prove otherwise; besides he's far more clever than that. ...I knew Quinn would have second thoughts! smile.gif He's now one of my favorite characters on the show, it took a few episodes though. Like you I don't know how I will manage to wait almost a year for the next season! eek.gifsmile.gif
post #1118 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post

Carrie was probably the only one left (alive wink.gif) who knew about the videotape. If she still had doubts, seeing it on the news most likely convinced her that he was innocent and he was (once again) telling the truth. Saul looking for her and seeing her at the very end were moving moments. Mandy Patinkin is so good! One line or two, one look and he has us weeping wink.gif I'm glad he's in charge now. Maybe he will think for a while that Brody did it but I'm sure the evidence will show up and prove otherwise; besides he's far more clever than that. ...I knew Quinn would have second thoughts! smile.gif He's now one of my favorite characters on the show, it took a few episodes though. Like you I don't know how I will manage to wait almost a year for the next season! eek.gifsmile.gif

Saul also knew the tape was recorded much earlier. Of course that alone wouldn't be enough to convince him that Brody had no part in the bombing. But that together with that fact that it was Carrie's idea to go up to her office (or was it Sauls?) and the comment that Brody made about his car being moved just seconds before the blast might be enough. Assuming he believes Carrie. Carrie is however the only person that knows how she really escaped Abu Nazir and that Brody killed the VP. Will she tell Saul about that?

Quinn is now probably aware that Brody is the prime suspect on the CIA bombing, and either mad as hell he didn't kill Brody, or perhaps suicidal.
post #1119 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by lobosrul View Post


Quinn is now probably aware that Brody is the prime suspect on the CIA bombing, and either mad as hell he didn't kill Brody, or perhaps suicidal.

But Quinn knows about the video as well... The CIA never let the public know about this tape up until now, so how did it end up on the news? Someone inside the CIA did it, and someone who wants to cover their ass(es) and let Brody take the blame for the attack.
post #1120 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post

But Quinn knows about the video as well...

Yeah, I think it unlikely Quinn would conclude that the CIA HQ bombing was Brody's work. He may suspect it but the whole thing smells of a setup. Also, he saw Carrie get Brody's confession during the interrogation session. I can't imagine that Quinn wouldn't be nearly as convinced as Carrie was that Brody bared his soul in that session. Finally, as Quinn reminded Estes, the CIA would not have been able to catch and kill Abu Nazir without Brody's help.
post #1121 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post

Probably not much. We've seen Nazir "talk" to him and threaten his family though.

When has Nazir threatened his family?

Quote:
It's obvious that Brody didn't do it!

Watch that scene with Carrie again. Carrie is all hot and ready to ride Brody yet Brody isn't just glancing out the window, he's completely preoccupied with it. Even Carrie asks him what's wrong and he lies saying, "Uh nothing". That's when he suddenly says his car is missing. That's right, he just happened to be scanning the CIA parking lot to make sure that no one had stolen his car so the security of his vehicle wouldn't affect his performance with Carrie!

Quote:
How come his tape was on the news while everyone in the CIA knows this tape has nothing to do with *this* attack?

Because the terrorists were sure the Brody finally had completed the suicide mission he had been sent on which he had failed to do the previous time. They didn't know that he ran away.

Quote:
He's being framed it's more than obvious.

If this were season one, I'd say that anything "more than obvious" is likely a deception by a character or long-term misdirection by the brilliant writers to be revealed in a later episode. However this is season two in which the writers were afraid of confusing people or making them question anyone's motives for more than five minutes so you're probably right. Brody's nervousness was probably a momentary misdirection to make us wonder for no more than five minutes about Brody before reassuring our opinions about what a great guy he is.

Quote:
By who that's for season 3. You really want him to be the bad guy but he's not.

This not-bad-guy helped assassinate the Vice President, shot a guy in cold blood on orders from a terrorist, and killed a guy with his bare hands because he was making too much noise when he was on the phone with his wife. So he's a murderer twice over and an assassin.
post #1122 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post

But Quinn knows about the video as well... The CIA never let the public know about this tape up until now, so how did it end up on the news?

The terrorists released it. They probably made a dozen copies of the video before the CIA found the card.
post #1123 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by scowl View Post

Watch that scene with Carrie again. Carrie is all hot and ready to ride Brody yet Brody isn't just glancing out the window, he's completely preoccupied with it. Even Carrie asks him what's wrong and he lies saying, "Uh nothing". That's when he suddenly says his car is missing. That's right, he just happened to be scanning the CIA parking lot to make sure that no one had stolen his car so the security of his vehicle wouldn't affect his performance with Carrie!

Yeah, they probably don't have a lot of car thefts at Langley, so his hyper parking lot vigilance seems misplaced biggrin.gif
post #1124 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by scowl View Post


This not-bad-guy helped assassinate the Vice President, shot a guy in cold blood on orders from a terrorist, and killed a guy with his bare hands because he was making too much noise when he was on the phone with his wife. So he's a murderer twice over and an assassin.

And he's boinking a crazy lady who could be a CIA station chief soon!
What a guy!
post #1125 of 1773
Any other "Onion" fans out there? Either the website or the TV show that used to air on IFC ("Onion News Network")? I think that the guy who made the fake passport/ID's for Brody at the end of the episode was none other than Michael Falk, Autistic Reporter. First thing I've ever seen that actor in beyond the Onion.

And I think that Mandy Patinkin is a FANTASTIC actor. From the Princess Bride to Dead Like Me to Homeland I've appreciated his acting style in virtually anything I've watched him in.

The fact that he can convey so much emotion with so few words and a few facial movements/huffs/breaths is a credit to hisl acting style.
post #1126 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by scowl View Post

When has Nazir threatened his family?
Watch that scene with Carrie again. Carrie is all hot and ready to ride Brody yet Brody isn't just glancing out the window, he's completely preoccupied with it. Even Carrie asks him what's wrong and he lies saying, "Uh nothing". That's when he suddenly says his car is missing. That's right, he just happened to be scanning the CIA parking lot to make sure that no one had stolen his car so the security of his vehicle wouldn't affect his performance with Carrie!

He doesn't suddenly says that his car is missing, he just spots his car outside knowing that he never parked it there.

As for Nazir, he specifically said to Brody "your family is safe...as long as you stick to the plan" (not his exact words, but that's very close) when he held him hostage earlier this season.

Quote:
Because the terrorists were sure the Brody finally had completed the suicide mission he had been sent on which he had failed to do the previous time. They didn't know that he ran away.

Brody talked to Nazir after the first failed attack, that's when he tried to explain to him that he didn't want to have civilians killed. He told him he would opt for a more diplomatic way in order to achieve his goal instead.
post #1127 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by scowl View Post

When has Nazir threatened his family?
Watch that scene with Carrie again. Carrie is all hot and ready to ride Brody yet Brody isn't just glancing out the window, he's completely preoccupied with it. Even Carrie asks him what's wrong and he lies saying, "Uh nothing". That's when he suddenly says his car is missing. That's right, he just happened to be scanning the CIA parking lot to make sure that no one had stolen his car so the security of his vehicle wouldn't affect his performance with Carrie!
Because the terrorists were sure the Brody finally had completed the suicide mission he had been sent on which he had failed to do the previous time. They didn't know that he ran away.
If this were season one, I'd say that anything "more than obvious" is likely a deception by a character or long-term misdirection by the brilliant writers to be revealed in a later episode. However this is season two in which the writers were afraid of confusing people or making them question anyone's motives for more than five minutes so you're probably right. Brody's nervousness was probably a momentary misdirection to make us wonder for no more than five minutes about Brody before reassuring our opinions about what a great guy he is.
This not-bad-guy helped assassinate the Vice President, shot a guy in cold blood on orders from a terrorist, and killed a guy with his bare hands because he was making too much noise when he was on the phone with his wife. So he's a murderer twice over and an assassin.


After Brody was whisked off in a helicopter and held overnight by Nazir but then released, Brody called Carrie and urgently requested that she have his family moved from their home to a more secure location. Later, Brody betrays Nazir by revealing to the CIA that Nazir wants Brody to get Roya press credentials to cover the return of 300 servicemen from overseas. Thanks to this tip, Roya is captured and an SUV filled with high explosives disguised as TV camera batteries is captured. Still later, while Nazir is holding Carrie captive, he reminds Brody in a phone conversation that Brody had betrayed him. Why would Nazir have gone to the trouble to capture Carrie and use her to coerce Brody into helping him kill the VP if Brody had been onboard with Nazir's schemes from the beginning? No reason at all, it seems to me. Consequently, the proposition that Brody really was responsible for the CIA bombing is to me, to put it gently, unconvincing.
post #1128 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by scowl View Post

When has Nazir threatened his family?

He made a veiled threat to Brody after the helicopter escape. It was the impetus for them moving the family and Mike to the posh penthouse.
post #1129 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph View Post

The plot device of Brody's SUV being parked just outside the glass walled auditorium really bugged me. Does anyone here fly through our airports? If you do, you undoubtably have noticed how sensitive the airport security folks are about any unattended vehicle near curbside drop off/pickup; they will have the vehicle towed rather than wait to see if someone comes back. In fact, if the driver tries to leave a vehicle at the curb, even for just a moment, security will not allow that to happen.
Now, imagine just how tight security must be in the parking lot at the CIA. There is no way in the world that security would allow an unattended vehicle to be left anywhere near the building, much less during a ceremony such as this. It's completely bogus. COMPLETELY. After the bombing of the federal building in Oklahoma City, does anyone think there is any way possible that security at the CIA would allow, much less not notice, a large SUV left where it doesn't belong?

Agreed. That whole plot point was hard to swallow. And, who moved the SUV in plain sight of the guards?
post #1130 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaypb View Post

And I think that Mandy Patinkin is a FANTASTIC actor. From the Princess Bride to Dead Like Me to Homeland I've appreciated his acting style in virtually anything I've watched him in.
The fact that he can convey so much emotion with so few words and a few facial movements/huffs/breaths is a credit to hisl acting style.

I thought the scene where his wife called to make sure he's safe was very moving, especially considering their history. They both did an excellent job in that scene.

The only problem I have w/ Patinkin is his mumbling. I often have to engage the subtitles or I'll miss half his dialogue.
post #1131 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougotte View Post

Agreed. That whole plot point was hard to swallow. And, who moved the SUV in plain sight of the guards?

They've suspected there to be a mole inside the CIA. I think that proves it.
post #1132 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaypb View Post

And I think that Mandy Patinkin is a FANTASTIC actor. From the Princess Bride to Dead Like Me to Homeland I've appreciated his acting style in virtually anything I've watched him in.
The fact that he can convey so much emotion with so few words and a few facial movements/huffs/breaths is a credit to hisl acting style.

I agree that Patinkin is a wonderful dramatic actor. He is also a big time Broadway musical theater guy. In 1980 he won a Tony for his performance as Che in Evita and has been nominated several other times. He is one of the few actors I can think of who I would be happy to hear both read the phone book and sang it.smile.gif
post #1133 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post


Makes sense. Also, did anyone else notice how mad Saul got when Carrie said she was going to the memorial with Brody? Saul trying to plead with her not to be with him. If he knew that place was going to blow then he was trying to do whatever he could to make sure she wouldn't be there.

That's not a plot possibility, it's a loon conspiracy mindset.
post #1134 of 1773
In every show people are tracked by the GPS' in their cellphones, except this one. Seems to me everyone's whereabouts should be accessible at any given time.
post #1135 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by FOPA View Post

In every show people are tracked by the GPS' in their cellphones, except this one. Seems to me everyone's whereabouts should be accessible at any given time.

I think most shows make it seem far easier than it really is to track someone. Brody has a Blackberry, which I don't think even have GPS. I believe the only way to track him would be to call his phone and see what tower it connects to. While he was actively working from the CIA, they would surely have had him carry some sort of tracking device.

Edit: of course now that I look it up, newer Blackberries to have GPS. But it can be disabled.
post #1136 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

He is one of the few actors I can think of who I would be happy to hear both read the phone book and sang it.smile.gif

Me too but I must confess I would prefer handing that book to Kate Beckinsale or Mary-Louise Parker...I'm sure they both sing just fine wink.gif
post #1137 of 1773
Finale in 10 seconds;



I'll ignore the obvious holes in realism about the car, the visitor passes having free reign, leaving a crime scene, phone tracking, etc.

Of what I've read from folks opinion on Brody being a device if not completely in on the bombing, most hinges on him pulling Carrie out of the memorial and away from danger but she is the one that pulled him away so I think he's truly clueless about the bomb. Saul is being hinted at the logical mole but it doesn't fit his character and would be a major flaw if they are going to write him that way now after all of this. Dar Adal is going to blossom next season I think as the reason Quinn didn't finish Brody off when he had him in his sights. We never saw the moment of him changing his mind and I think a play was put in motion by someone above him, not just a soldier breaking orders after he was more than willing to stick a knife in Brody and was ready to shoot him in the limo too. Who moved the car? The mole. Who is the mole? Not Saul imo.

Next season will hopefully be only a little bit of leftover Brody and pick up on finding the mole, figuring out what the new Estes (Adal) is up to, and featuring more Quinn as he has become very important and a likeable badass but what about his apartment and baby's momma photo and all that? Could he be part of the bombing? Doubt it but there's clues if they want to follow it.

Can we finally say goodbye to Brody's family if not Brody? PLEEEEEEASE?

post #1138 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by HD Hockey Guy View Post

Finale in 10 seconds;

Saul is being hinted at the logical mole but it doesn't fit his character and would be a major flaw if they are going to write him that way now after all of this. .........
Can we finally say goodbye to Brody's family if not Brody? PLEEEEEEASE?

I watched the same show as everyone else and never for a second got the idea that Saul could be a mole.

As to the family, they can go, but can we see the wife naked a few more times? wink.gif
post #1139 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by HD Hockey Guy View Post

Saul is being hinted at the logical mole but it doesn't fit his character and would be a major flaw if they are going to write him that way now after all of this.

Why is he being hinted at the logical mole? There's absolutely not one single glimpse of hint in the episode.
Quote:
Dar Adal is going to blossom next season I think as the reason Quinn didn't finish Brody off when he had him in his sights. We never saw the moment of him changing his mind and I think a play was put in motion by someone above him, not just a soldier breaking orders after he was more than willing to stick a knife in Brody and was ready to shoot him in the limo too.

He's also an intelligent man. As he said to Estes, everything Brody told them was true, he was the key element of the capture/killing of Nazir. And he trusts Carrie's judgement too.
Quote:
Who moved the car? The mole. Who is the mole? Not Saul imo.

Of course not. What could possibly be his motivation(s)?

Quote:
Can we finally say goodbye to Brody's family if not Brody? PLEEEEEEASE?

um, he's still kind of a central character. His role will change in the upcoming season, but I'm pretty sure we still have a lot too see from him. He will most likely help Carrie/Saul in the investigation, and he will help them find the perpetrators.
post #1140 of 1773
Something else I just realized. Brody was ambivalent on whether his family should attend the funeral. If he knew about the bomb, and cared about them at all, he would have made sure they stayed away. If he was actually a complete monster this whole time and wanted them dead, he would have tried harder to have them present. However, he didn't seem concerned either way. Which to me goes a long ways to show he had no knowledge of the bomb.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opinionated View Post

I watched the same show as everyone else and never for a second got the idea that Saul could be a mole.
As to the family, they can go, but can we see the wife naked a few more times? wink.gif

Me neither, it would be completely contrary to his character and past actions. Why wouldn't have have buried the video if he was the mole?

And, yes please.
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