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Homeland on SHO - Page 48

post #1411 of 1773
So part of the plan was to have Carrie pick some guy up in a liquor store and sleep with him so later she would have some place to go and make it look like she was trying to get away when she knew she was being followed? And also she could conveniently rob him when her bank account was frozen and her credit cards all canceled. Dramatically the twist was a nice touch but I agree with THR it does have a lot of holes in it.
post #1412 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuzzin View Post

This article seems to be saying that Carrie was in on the plan all along. My impression was that Saul didn't fully reveal his plan to Carrie until he came to visit her in the psych ward ("F**k you, Saul" scene). So when Carrie was watching in disbelief at Saul throwing her under the bus on TV, that was real shock and betrayal on her face.

EDIT: Just read an interview with the producer confirming that Carrie was in this from the beginning. Ehh... I don't know how I feel about this now.


"You shouldn't have left me there Saul".
Who said the plan wasn't risky?

What I mean is that Carrie knew/knows from the beginning the goal and purpose of the operation, but the operation includes many unknown variables, but that's her work, that's what she does. As soon as she agrees to do it, she agrees to take the risks that come with it. The tears were real, "**** you Saul" was real (what she meant was "this thing better work Saul look where you just put me"), her reaction seeing him on TV was real ("is it worth it? My life could be destroyed doing this")... Seems all very plausible to me given what's at stake.
Edited by Morpheo - 10/22/13 at 7:56am
post #1413 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by acebreathe View Post

So part of the plan was to have Carrie pick some guy up in a liquor store and sleep with him so later she would have some place to go and make it look like she was trying to get away when she knew she was being followed?

Part of the plan was to get to the meeting with that guy. Part of the plan was to adapt to it (liquor store guy) as it was being played. Obviously her bank account(s) and credit cards are fine, but she probably didn't know they'd go that far (having no contact with Saul didn't help either, but that was part of the plan too)
post #1414 of 1773
what makes the twist a little hard to swallow is the fact that even when Carrie was alone she was still reacting with sadness and anger which wouldn't make sense...the scene where she says f*** you to Saul at the mental hospital makes sense because it can be interpreted in a different way but a lot of the other stuff not so much
post #1415 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post

what makes the twist a little hard to swallow is the fact that even when Carrie was alone she was still reacting with sadness and anger which wouldn't make sense...the scene where she says f*** you to Saul at the mental hospital makes sense because it can be interpreted in a different way but a lot of the other stuff not so much
Don't forget that Carrie's mental problems are very real, so it probably wasn't easy for her to go through with all this. Sure there are some big plotholes but I am glad they did this twist. It wouldn't have made sense to keep Carrie on the show / CIA agent once again if they didn't.
post #1416 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post

"You shouldn't have left me there Saul".
Who said the plan wasn't risky?

What I mean is that Carrie knew/knows from the beginning the goal and purpose of the operation, but the operation includes many unknown variables, but that's her work, that's what she does. As soon as she agrees to do it, she agrees to take the risks that come with it. The tears were real, "**** you Saul" was real (what she meant was "this thing better work Saul look where you just put me"), her reaction seeing him on TV was real ("is it worth it? My life could be destroyed doing this")... Seems all very plausible to me given what's at stake.

well put morpheo.
post #1417 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohotos View Post

Don't forget that Carrie's mental problems are very real, so it probably wasn't easy for her to go through with all this. Sure there are some big plotholes but I am glad they did this twist. It wouldn't have made sense to keep Carrie on the show / CIA agent once again if they didn't.

her mental problems are real and a lot of here scenes there could work both ways but her reaction to seeing him on TV out her relationship with Brody did not work for me...in the hearing she was not identified by name, only that a CIA analyst was having an affair with Brody...the writers tried to frame it both ways knowing the twist was coming but some scenes did not work as a dual meaning as well as others
post #1418 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by wco81 View Post

That's the point, he wouldn't leave Iran.

Or go anywhere where the govt. might allow US to conduct drone strikes, such as the Sudan.

Plus, they didn't try to capture Osama Bin Laden. They decided to kill on sight and dispose of the body, not try to capture him alive.

They killed the 6 targets with extreme prejudice. If he was stupid enough to leave Iran, they'd try to take him out.

Capture him to torture him?

More likely he will be lured back to Venezuela where Brody also just not so coincidentally happens to be.
post #1419 of 1773
how could this Javadi character have even funded this attack so quickly?...the attack could not have been planned with much advanced notice because they could not have known the exact time that Brody would kill the VP...so to plant the bomb at the memorial service would have required some quick thinking on Nazir's part...I said it earlier but this whole Javadi story seems like a disconnect because we have never seen or heard of him before this season and he's now supposed to be this major terrorist baddie even worse then Nazir
post #1420 of 1773
despite all the voiced frustration with this season, homeland has been renewed for a season 4. i, for one, am pleased by this news.
post #1421 of 1773
Damn !I was about to post it but you beat me by 30 secs! biggrin.gif

...great news!
post #1422 of 1773
Want to see how the rest of this season progresses before jumping for joy.
post #1423 of 1773
I forget when Carrie was approached by the lawyer's lackey (Franklin?), but the double agent plotline couldn't have emerged until then. And she still didn't know exactly what they wanted until she met with the main lawyer himself. And they didn't show Carrie meeting with Saul to set up the "sting" at all but that meeting must have happened offscreen, but how? She said she took 5 hours just to wind her way to Saul's house at the end of the episode, presumably because the evil lawyer's minions were following her. So, no matter how you look at it, there was a narrative disconnect with Carrie's emotions and actions and the final reveal of her involvement with the sting, not to mention the convenience of leaving out just how the double-agent sting operation was developed so quickly and communicated to Carrie in the first place. But they needed a big reveal, I guess.

Doesn't sit well with me. Could just be the weight of having to develop new plotlines on top of the old, finished plotlines, with the same characters, as new seasons are commissioned. And now they'll be another season following this. How long can you keep the balls in the air before you start to miss a catch here and there?

When does 'The Americans' - the new espionage drama leader - come back? I enjoyed its first season much more than the last couple of seasons of 'Homeland'.
post #1424 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by kittycarole View Post

despite all the voiced frustration with this season, homeland has been renewed for a season 4. i, for one, am pleased by this news.

I agree. The writing is sometimes a little uneven but you simply can't beat the show's ensemble cast.
post #1425 of 1773
The show has had so many good moments that they will stick to it.

But the trends of the last season and so far this season are not good.

The original premise was great, a Manchurian candidate in the 21st century. But what else do they have? Well because of network interference, they kept Brody around long after it made sense plot wise, and turned it into a soap opera at times.

Look at how Dexter unraveled. Eventually the leads, the writers and maybe even the show runner, if he's not replaced, will lose interest and they'll start mailing it in, as was the case with Dexter and is the case with True Blood.

The challenge is to find the next premise after Cary and Brody, a love story.
post #1426 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by wco81 View Post

The challenge is to find the next premise after Cary and Brody, a love story.

the love story emphasis is what has ruined the show from the very start...I actually enjoyed the 2nd season more then the first because of the breakneck pace but overall the absurdity of a CIA analyst falling for the terrorist she was trying to apprehend seemed too preposterous from the get-go...I'm enjoying seeing more of an emphasis placed on the inner workings of the CIA this season but as long as Brody and his family are shoehorned into this show the worse it will continue to get
post #1427 of 1773
I find this show overwrought with a soap opera element which I don't understand because the theme of espionage should be enough to have a good show. I thought the show was a spy show but now its become a show about Carrie, Saul and Brody (and his family) rather than Homeland security which is in the background and only comes out when needed. The "twist" at the end of the last ep didn't surprise me in the least. I'm just trying to figure out whether this is worth watching. Maybe i'll just watch reruns of Strike Back.
post #1428 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post


When does 'The Americans' - the new espionage drama leader - come back? I enjoyed its first season much more than the last couple of seasons of 'Homeland'.

February. They ran an ad during last week's Sons of Anarchy.
post #1429 of 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by FOPA View Post

Or a la Fielding Mellish

Well, that was Brody's problem right there. He forgot to bring the cake when he was invited to dinner in the mosque.
post #1430 of 1773
I'm glad we're finally going somewhere, but I think the twist is so unbelievable even for tv. they went through all this hoping the guy they are after would try to recruit her, out of all the bad actors out there who may be interested in a disgruntled CIA agent. And you have to hope the guy is dumb enough to try recruit a head case by springing her from a psych ward, even though they know she is radioactive and under intense watch. Uh huh. And apparently Carrie Mathison is as great an actress as Clare Danes and "stays in character" even when drugged or in a room by herself.

Wouldn't it have been enough if Carrie had gone to Saul and made a deal to be a triple agent? No. The problem is too many writers now think the highest achievement is to pull something the audience did not see coming. I mean sure if you just throw characters and plausibility out the window.

You can always make excuses and rationalizations. However, it's not a question of whether it COULD happen this way, but, given the characters, the situation, and the tone and style of the story, what is more likely to happen.

Oh and don't tease us with the Leo is a murderer thing. We know you're not gonna kill Dana. You're too addicted to teen drama.
post #1431 of 1773
Thread Starter 
Very interesting to see Saul "talk back" to the new nominee for director.

Also, Saul's wife!! Sure looked romantic to me, LOL eek.gif

Too bad we did not see any part of Carrie without her clothes on rolleyes.gif
post #1432 of 1773
a very solid episode, i thought.

loving me some quinn.
post #1433 of 1773
An article about Carrie's changing role: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/28/arts/television/homeland-on-showtime-gets-a-jolt-of-energy.html?hpw

Had to wonder about Carrie waking to subtle noise in the house, then making a unsuccessful dash to a wall safe for a gun before being kidnapped. They could have written about her being alerted early by a computer-based motion sensor, then plugging both intruders...but then the Iranian spy master wouldn't be flashing a lie-detector display at her next week during her interrogation.. -- John
post #1434 of 1773
Sorry if I am late to the party but I just caught up last night. Am enjoying the back and forth starting at 2 episodes ago.

Some questions from this side of the planet:

1. Am I the only one who wants Dana to succeed in her next suicide attempt? The whole Brody family soap opera is a total distraction from the primary story line.

2. I have also seen enough of handy Marine Mike, Johnny on the spot when someone needs a hug or a sandwich. Doesn't this guy have a real job in the Marines? Put on a uniform and go to work for crying out loud.

3. Who for a minute expected Saul to be the next CIA director? He has the political savvy of an 8 year old. And he needs to get a haircut, trim his beard, and get some clothes that fit. Oh and be sure to send your wife back to Mumbai where she should have stayed.

4. More Quinn, please. He is a trip. Driest sense of humor on TV. Quinn to Saul: What are you doing? Saul: Getting dressed. Quinn: As what?

5. Venezuela? Really? Some help with the back story as to how Brody got there (with a couple of serious bullet wounds) would be welcome. Wouldn't really want the pedophile druggie doctor to make a house call on my behalf. Creepy fella.
post #1435 of 1773
Great speech by Saul. lets all drink to that...biggrin.gif Did anyone see more of Carrie with a bigger screen?..eek.gif Good episode all around..
post #1436 of 1773
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by taxman48 View Post

Great speech by Saul. lets all drink to that...biggrin.gifDid anyone see more of Carrie with a bigger screen?..eek.gif Good episode all around..

LOL. Wonder if she has a no nudity contract.

Leftcoastdave,
That's some review. Angry! tongue.gif
post #1437 of 1773
rolleyes.gif
post #1438 of 1773
terrible episode...almost the entire episode spent around the Dana subplot...only good part was the Javadi reveal (finally!) and the last few minutes...it almost seems like the writers didn't have enough main plot to cover an entire season so they had to patch in lots of filler stories to kill time...I like the risk of showing less Brody this season but not this little (no Brody for 4 of 5 episodes thus far)...plus if you're going to show less Brody you have to make sure that the other A plots make up for it (which so far this season they haven't)

another thing which has always irritated me about the show is why they almost always end the show at the 45-48 minute mark...they do this more often then not...don't they realize they are on premium cable and can use 55-60 minutes!!
post #1439 of 1773
I'm getting really bored. It seems like all this exposition could have been done in no more than two episodes. Will ride out the season though...
post #1440 of 1773
I hope the Dana story is over, please?

Now to focus more on Carrie, too bad she didn't want to show us more :P, Morena would certainly not, big belly is a bit obvious now..
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