Homeland on SHO - Page 25

Totally agree

We dont always see the immediate payoff to current plots. I was thinking Brody should ahve died at the end of season 1, BUT since they got renewed, it probably didnt make sense, which is why he is still alive. I am happy they did keep him alive though, becasue the last episode was some of the best drama I ahve seen on recent television. I could care less if Brody and Carrie get together, thats just a side plot to the bigger storyline which I could do with or without. I am giving the writers and show runners some slack though to see where they take this as even the Dana storyline could have implecations into the main plot.

+1. With scenes like that I really don't mind the liberties they take as far as "realistic" goes . Claire Danes and Damian Lewis are both simply amazing. As mentioned by another member, what makes these scenes so special is that they don't occur that often. This show is as emotionally involving as it's suspenseful.

Good point. I had a problem with how everything seemed rushed, but I guess it needed to be that way.

Many of us here have expressed our admiration for the scene depicting Carrie's interrogation of Brody in Q&A. Today, I saw Andy Greenwald's piece about Q&A in Grantland, which expressed the same sentiment.

Here's the money quote: Indeed! Read the whole thing, you'll be glad you did.

I would have turned for Carrie also.. if I was there.. she's so good..

As screwed up as Nazir has made Brody, I understood why Carrie's painfully, even tragically, honest confession that she loved Brody and wanted him to leave his wife and be with her finally moved Brody to totally confess what he had done. In that connection, there was a subtle moment at the end of the scene, which I thought was wonderful. When Carrie tells Brody that they will have their meetings at Carrie's apartment, an expression of joy briefly crosses Brody's face, as if he were a kid on Christmas morning who has just learned that he has been given a pony.

Ive had this thought going in my head, even though I know its not true. Carrie knew she needed to get to Brody on a personal level, and knew that using thier past interactions would work. What if what she said was just to get him to break? I know she still has feelings for him, but at the same time I cant help but think that it was a ploy to help break him......Just one of those thoughts that went through my mind when she was interrogating him...

^^^ maybe. But it's pretty obvious that despite what she had to do to break him, she never stopped loving him.

This scene was full of little details that made it incredibly powerful. Their hands (in the car as well), how they looked to each other, the tone of her voice... He probably understood as she confessed that she loved him, that he loves her too; which, even at the cabin, was never really clear and ambiguous.

Enjoyed the episode and, especially that interrogation scene, tremendously.  However, I didn't see Carrie's comments as truly showing her current feelings.  At one time, while she was confused over her belief that Brody was turned, she truly had feelings for him.  But, in that room, I think she was using that simply as a ploy to get him to open up.  I don't believe she was really suggesting he consider leaving his wife for her, but merely probing what she knows is a sensitive area in Brody's psyche.  Her loathing for his betrayal of his country always seems to outweigh her personal feelings.  She's had several scenes where she appeals to him and then quickly turns cold, such as in the hotel room when she confronts him.  Maybe I'm wrong, and it works either way, but I don't accept that she's still in love and choose to believe that the consummate pro in her is guiding her moves.

Agreed, and Claire is enough of a sociopath to be able to convincingly make that "confession" to almost anyone. Look at how she's used men all through her life, especially if she can get something from them. I'm not sure that even Claire knows whether she was telling the truth or not.

I think she was profoundly honest with him. Of course she wasn't *really* suggesting he should leave his wife, but she simply told him how she felt, the kind of things you think but you're not allowed to tell... She knows she had a job to do, but she's doing it using her own, and true, feelings. That's how I understand it.

But when you're in love with a married man who is potentially a suicide bomber and you work for the CIA, you kinda mess with the conventions in the first place

You honestly think Carrie is a sociopath??

The reason the writing and acting was at a level rarely seen is...we don't know what her motives are. Is she making a play for Brody or just trying to turn him? Why not both? I think she does love him and suspects he's in love at least partly with her. But she's also good enough at her job to use those feelings to get what she needs. When she entered the room Brody had chosen the path he was going to take-stonewall the interrogation and insist he was not wearing the vest. Nothing Danny, and by implication, anyone else, could say or do was going to shake his story. He was on guard and ready to deny anything Carrie might say., Only instead of continuing to try to break his story Carrie went off on a tangent, talking about her feelings. She seemingly bared her soul, revealing her inner self at a primal level. At first Brody suspects a trick but is gradually sucked into talking about their personal relationship. Its the path Carrie wants and she hammers away at him, referring to the cabin over and over. Brody finally says they were playing each other at the cabin, which was the opening she was waiting for. Admitting he was playing her was an unwitting admission of being in the game as much as she was and had deeper motives than just trying to sleep with her. Carrie kept at it, gradually turning the conversation from their personal feelings to the topic of his involvement in terrorism. Each time Brody realized he was close to confessing he fell back on his story and tried to stand firm. But Carrie responded by turning it personal again, professing her love and his betrayal of their bond. Brody defended himself and once she had him focused completely on their personal relationship again gradually led the talk back to Nasir. Brody was smart, he kept drawing back each time he came close to admitting his involement. Carrie was smarter, and kept it up. By confessing her love she was urging him to admit his. As Brody weakened she made it a condition that to prove his feelings he had to admit he had worn the vest. Confused and probably not even sure what they were talking about anymore Brody finally did. Much like Nasir she had stripped him to his core and then rebuilt him. Only it took Nasir 3 years-she did it in 15 minutes. A true master at work-we finally see why the CIA tolerated her instability and impulsiveness. Love him or not, she's good at her job, and willing to use whatever it takes to do it.

At least thats how I see it. YMMV:).

And Estes is an idiot

x2

Perhaps she's not a sociopath, but she's certainly capable of saying anything to anyone given the proper circumstances. We've seen this demonstrated countless times by her character, regardless of the person getting the lies, including Saul.

I absolutely lost interest last season. I just didn't seem to care for the melodrama. I don't know why, but I decided to give the show another chance this season. (especially
since my Showtime subscription was renewed). All I can say about last night was wow. For "TV" it was very powerful. The acting is fabulous and I never feel like I'm being
preached to. I am completely immersed and enjoying every minute of it.

Of course Carrie is a sociopath, or so it seems to me. I have been reading spy fiction for 50 years or more and I have seen few if any spies, who weren't sociopaths. A case in point is John le Carre's wonderful but deeply disturbing, A Perfect Spy. Unless there is something missing at a spy's core, which gives him the ability to lie convincingly, he isn't a very good spy

Depends on one's personal view of sociopaths, obviously. She's capable of saying AND doing anything. But she has most of the hallmarks, including having no regard for the consequences of her action and looking out for nobody but herself. Partly due to her manic issues, to be sure, but you can only blame just so much on mental illness. She does feel guilty, so that keeps her off the psychopath list. But her guilt doesn't change her behavior. If it quacks like a duck.......

She's a very complex individual, as is Brody. And Sol and Estes, even Danny. Heck even Nasir and the VP have more than one side to them. They can't be labeled easily and don't have simplistic explainations for their behavior. They're portrayed as real people, with flaws and virtues. Noone is merely a plot device, which is what makes the show so fascinating and seperates it from most thrillers/spy dramas.

Of course Carrie is a sociopath, or so it seems to me. I have been reading spy fiction for 50 years or more and I have seen few if any spies, who weren't sociopaths. A case in point is John le Carre's wonderful but deeply disturbing, A Perfect Spy. Unless there is something missing at a spy's core, which gives him the ability to lie convincingly, he isn't a very good spy[/quote]
... and who can argue with spy fiction ... ?

... and who can argue with spy fiction ... ?

Watching the interrogation made me think of all the great Homicide: Life on the Streets interrogation box scenes with Andre Braugher playing the Pembleton role. Difficult to write those scenes well, but when they are written well they reveal so much emotion in the characters. The best parts are figuring out whether the emotion is contrived or "real".

Love Homeland but really miss Homicide. That show was before its time. It needed to be on show time or HBO.

Any wine drinkers in the group that noticed the Vinturi aerator in its stand next to David Estes' computer monitor when he was viewing the video of Brody in episode 4? What's up with that? Just advertising or supposed to imply the guy spends a lot of time on his computer?

I really miss that show ;-)

In another forum, I made that same comparison. "Three Men and Adina" was a great interrogation episode and Braugher was just fantastic in that show.

I have one of those at home, but didn't notice it on the show.

However, I did notice that Carrie was gulping down some kind of Cupcake white. It was a long shot, so I couldn't tell which varietal, but I did recognize the label!

It was on the left side of the TV display (ie. to the right of the computer monitor as Estes was facing it). I keep mine in my kitchen which is why it stood out to me.

Good Catch! I didn't notice that Carrie was drinking Cupcake wine, although I have bought it from time to time. As I recall, it was pretty good and not terribly expensive.

I don't think Carrie is a sociopath -- sociopaths are incapable of empathy. If anything, Carrie feels too much empathy and is willing to risk herself and often operations in its service -- witness how determined she was to protect her source in Beirut this season, or how upset she was when her informant in the Prince's entourage died last year. She is certainly capable of lying, but that doesn't make her incapable of empathy.