Does Denon Link Really Matter? - Page 2

^Hi guys. Thanks for your expertise. This is interesting but I'll just restate that I did not mean to reopen broad, highly technical and theoretical debate on jitter. After all, I did not start a(nother) jitter thread in the Audio Theory section of AVS.

I have a practical question essentially about whether it's worth it to buy an expensive Denon player to get DL and I'd like to hear from folks who have tried real-world A/B listening tests wrt SQ improvement heard using Denon-Link ON vs OFF. So far the theory is becoming more abundant and test data remains underwhelming.

It occurs to me that the question with DL is actually akin to the passive biamping (assigning unused AVR internal amps to the same speaker, removing the jumper on the back of the speaker) issue in this sense:
1. we are talking about fairly subtle differences in SQ which is already at a high level
2. the Denon literature says it improves SQ
3. people offer various plausible-sounding theories as to why it should be true.
4. placebo effect, auditory memory and level-matching must be taken inrto account

By and large controlled listening tests reveal such biamping doesn't audibly matter, so one needn't bother. The same goes for biwiring; I hear it all the time from expensive speaker manufacturers and dealers. For example, my Dali Helicon 400s "should" be biwired.

However, unlike the aforementioned examples, AFAIK, the D-L ON/OFF test should be quick and easy to do properly, even blind.

^Thank you but please don't take offense. I would appreciate a bit more detail, if you will. Indeed the experience of listening to music is subjective, we both know this. And I assume you know this as well; that when auditioning gear, we try to control some of the variables and reduce subjectivity when possible.

Sometimes, as with changing out an AVR, it's harder to do a good A/B test because it takes so long to switch all the connections, etc. Sometimes it's a lot easier. For ex, I can easily switch Audyssey ON/OFF, and switch between bitstream and PCM output from my Oppo, and switch from analog to HDMI outputs from my Oppo. This reduces the subjectivity problem with long-term auditory memory.

I believe the DL listening test that I've proposed is a fair test and is easy and I'm asking if you, or others, happened to do it. So I'm hoping for a more detailed response to my question I posted to you above:
"When you had it, did you happen to do any of the A/B comparisons I listed at the bottom of the first post of this thread?"

I guess I would also add, "did you have the two players at the same time and did you directly A/B the two players?"

Nice post, alebanau, thanks for the added detail and clarification. As to our rooms and gear, we have some similar tastes but you have better gear! I have 2 Velo DD10s and the AVRA100, for ex., vs your DD15s and the Denon flagship pre/pro. I'm guessing your room is probably better acoustically as well, since mine is a nightmare.

As you point out, though not the same gear/room. But given that my equipment is pretty decent, that will not negate the value of your data for me. Especially given that you kept other variables under control.

Could you describe whether you felt any particular modality benefitted proportionately more than the others? (CD vs SACD vs DVDA vs BR, bitstream vs PCM, etc.)

Hi Jon. I'd just about given up on this thread, so thanks for posting. Very impressive system and website. Thanks for the report. It may well be that few folks have a system discriminating enough to make the added investment in a good DL player worth it vs, say an Oppo 93 ($500). I may fit in that category.

I considered the AVP-A1 pre-pro but an A100 at $1500 was too much value for me to pass up at this point in my HT journey. Are you excited about the XT32 upgrade?



I have been trying to sort out how to eliminate the shiny discs yet get the max HiRes MC SQ out of my A100. Does one require a particularly adept sound card with the HTPC route?

Hi. Wow, when it rains it pours-2 new posters in one day. So Im understanding you to say that in your system CDs sound better DL than via SPDIF. Would you describe your gear and the SQ difference? Your findings seem consistent with this post.

Answer-yes, to my ears with my gear.
See this post.

Well guys, I have finished up several rounds of A/B tests, reported in the DBP-4010/A100 thread on SACD, DVDA, BluRay, DVD and redbookCD.

My conclusion at this point is that for RBCD, SACD and DVDA the advantage to Denon Link with improved SQ for me in my system is quite clear and is significant. But for DVD and BluRay films and concerts, there is little difference for either PQ or SQ compared to my Oppo's digital output.

Perhaps someone with more technical knowledge can chime in and explain this, or at least provide some theoretical basis, but I am a bit confused by the lack of improvement for both DVD and BluRay, especially since bitstreamed DSD is improved by DLink. This is complex technology and admittedly I found the various Denonese instructions and settings daunting to say the least, so I may be screwing something up somewhere.

Well, I find DenonLink really matters. I just found a cool reference that I think supports my findings quite well, a positive review about DenonLink by Kal Rubinson in his Stereophile Music in the Round column
here
Excerpted:
"You can only imagine how satisfying it was to be able to listen to SACDs and DVD-As as I and Denon had intended. With Audyssey MultEQxt and the bass management in both player and receiver defeated, SACDs played through DL3 were indistinguishable from Denon's completely analog Pure Direct pathway. Listening this way was suboptimal, because the player's and receiver's bass-management parameters are somewhat different, and the EQ would bias the observations. Nonetheless, my experience shows that there is absolutely no disadvantage to using DL3 instead of the traditional purist arrangement of analog out to analog in. It also says that no price need be paid for getting the ease and sophistication of the AVR-4806 receiver's digital signal processing...
DL3 and iLink were both sonically identical to the Pure Direct pathway..."

^But about as esoteric and obscure?

Kal, I hope I have not taken your comments out of context. I was so happy to have some confirmation from an unbiased expert that it optimizes SQ with a Denon processor. For me, that extra SQ cost about $500, as I sold my OppoSE to cover the majority of the cost of the DBPA100. Not bad...

^Indeed, Kal my offhand comment reveals my unfamiliarity with Meridian. Thnx for the link, they have some cool stuff.

As to the name of the thread, my connotation was "Does DenonLink Really Matter irt improving SQ?". As to whether DenonLink matters, in the sense of importance in the hobby, this thread bespeaks its unfortunate near total irrelevance. As you note, DL is proprietary. And even amongst those with high-end DL-equipped Denon processors, few take advantage of DL.