craig john's theater - Page 9

You're using Pro, right? With Pro, you can do so many more positions. Looks like you're using 13 now. You could probably keep your current mic grouping and just add a few extra in close proximity to the main LP.

We did the maximum number of mic positions, which for XT32 is 8. Your "acoustic bubble" was pretty tight.

Craig

Hi PTG,

The first post has a full range RTA. Also, in Post #219, I posted this measurement:




Yes, I do, (currently), run a 100Hz crossover on all the speakers. Also the LPF of LFE is set to 100 Hz. I've tried multiple different crossovers, from 60 to 100. his 100 Hz crossover for all speakers seems like the best for maximum system headroom, and lack of sub localization.

Hi cuzed2,

I was, at one point, running all three subs off one subwoofer output. They were gain-matched and placed randomly around the room. I posted all that here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/759877/seaton-sound-submersive1/4500#post_19446901

After some discussions with other members, I decided to try one sub on one output and the other 2 subs on the second output, I moved the 2 subs so they were the same distance from the LP and further away than the 1 sub. After running Audyssey, manipulating the subwoofer distances and levels, the differences between the 2 setups were trivial/insignificant. I left it with the "split" setup, but only because it would have been a lot of work to re-route the cables to go back to the "triplet" setup.

One note: with the "split" setup, I ended up with different level settings for output1 and output2. This effectively results in a level-matched situation, and to get back to gain-matched, I split-the-difference on the level settings. IIRC, they were set at -11 for the dual subs and -6 for the single sub. I reset them both to -8.5 to get them to the same levels. This had virtually no impact on the FR.

If you run into any issues with your new setup, let me know. I'll try to help. Good luck with it.

Craig

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1282064/two-subs-gain-matching-vs-level-matching

Enjoy!

Craig

The only thing I don't understand is the bolded part. The SMS-1's volume control is set up for "unity gain", (volume input = volume output with no EQ engaged), with a setting of 15. It's range is far higher than 1 thru 6.

Also, gain-matching is really most appropriate for identical subs. Your results with dissimilar subs may not be ideal with gain-matching. It will depend on how dissimilar the 20-39 is from the 16-46. I don't know enough about SVS subs to comment on that. Maybe ask in the SVS thread?

Finally, that "null" at 100 Hz, which is also your crossover frequency, may actually be an incorrect setting of the subwoofer Distance in the receiver. I find that Audyssey often gets this setting wrong, especially in multi-sub systems, and the result is a recession around the crossover frequency. Use the FR graph of the SMS-1 to view the response while adding some distance to the subwoofer Distance setting and see if that doesn't correct the "null." It has worked for me in a number of multi-sub systems. (BTW, the "correct" subwoofer distance is usually not the physical distance as measured with a tape measure. The correct subwoofer Distance takes into account the latency involved in the subwoofer amp, (any phase control or EQ/crossover in the sub amp will add latency. Also, in your system, the SMS-1 will add some latency. This will cause the signal to be delayed a few milliseconds. Prolonging the subwoofer Distance setting causes the subwoofer to "fire" first and allows the signal to "catch up" to the signals from the speakers. In this way, all the signals from all the speakers and sub(s) arrive at the same time at the listening position. This means they are all in-phase. If they arrive at different times, they will be out-of-phase and you'll get the aforementioned cancellation/null.

Craig

60 Hz. Even though they have dual 10" woofers, they're "LCR" speakers, so they're designed to be used with subs. Triad picked up 3 dB of sensitivity by tuning them to 60 Hz. With respect to LF design, they are similar to the Catalysts you have.

Craig

I use a Chief RPA mount. http://www.chiefmfg.com/Series/RPA It's mounted through the dropped ceiling to the joists overhead. I needed an additional 4" of "drop" to get the projector to the right height. I got a piece of pipe threaded on both ends from Home Depot for about $4. It's as solid as a rock.

How is your HT coming along? Do you have the 8200's installed yet?

Craig

I would love to come hear/see it. I can bring XTZ and we can see if we can get Audyssey to behave itself too!

Hi AltaHomeTheater,

First, thanks for reading my thread and the kind words about my system. Much appreciated.

In terms of comparing the Cats to the Plats, I'm not sure exactly what you're looking for. They are both sealed "LCR" designs that are intended for use with subwoofers and 80 Hz crossovers. They both use large woofers, but limit their extension to about 60 Hz. They both have very high output capabilities and excellent dynamics. They both have wide horizontal dispersion with limited vertical dispersion. In all these respects they are more similar than different.

Of course, there are differences. The Cats use a compression driver tweeter mounted co-axially with the midrange; the Plat's use a silk dome tweeter mated to a very unique horn, (or "dispersion lens" as Triad calls it.) The Cats are active speakers with active crossovers, internal DSP, and amplification built-in and dedicated to each driver or driver system. The Plat's are traditional, passive designs which require external amplification, and use passive crossovers. Finally, the Cats are half the price of the Plats... and that *includes* the amplification, crossovers and DSP.

In terms of sound quality, that will have as much to do with setup and the room as it will the speakers. I've heard the Cats in an *excellent* room, very well designed and executed in terms of acoustic treatments and room correction, (audioguy's system.) In that system, the Cats sounded incredible, very dynamic, uncompressed, smooth and just plain FUN! However, in a different room, one that was not designed as a listening room, and completely untreated, the room overwhelmed the "goodness" of the speakers, and the Cats didn't come off so well in that system. If you've read my comments about the Plats, you already know what I think of the sound quality of those speakers.

I am not going to make a judgement about which of these speakers is "best." I think they're both great speakers. Some folks don't like the sound of horns; some folks don't like the sound of compression drivers, so neither of these speakers will be perfect for everyone. Certainly some will see the Cats as the "value" choice at the lower price point AND with built-in amplification, and that POV is impossible to dismiss. Others will see the additional required A to D and D to A conversion steps as added intrusions in the signal chain.

I got a great deal on a set of Triad Platinums, and I couldn't be happier. I have heard nothing that I like better than these speakers, and I have zero desire to change speakers at this point. If I did, I think I would like to hear some of the new designs using Air Motion Transformer tweeters, either the Triad Cinema Reference Line or the Legacy Audio AMT tweeter/midrange designs.

What speakers and subs are you using?

Craig

Neither the Cats nor the Plats will leave you asking "What if..." especially not in an 11 x 17 dedicated HT.

If you want to hear the Plats, contact the factory rep for Canada and ask him where the closest displaying dealer is: http://www.triadspeakers.com/howtobuy_usacanada.html#

If you want to hear the Cats, go to the Seaton Sound Forum and ask if there is anyone with Cats in your area. You never know... http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/?forum=86963
I had the advantage of an in-home audition of the Plats before I bought them. Having said that, it took about 5 minutes to make the decision once I heard them.

Good luck whatever you decide. The good news is that there are no bad decisions here.

Craig