First entry level home theater system

Hello! Welcome! First, what's you budget? Also, it is better to avoid HTIB systems.

Depends on "your goal" and how big the room is you are putting this in.

Will the Onkyo/Klipsch sound better than the TV? Of course it will.

Will it shake the foundation? No it won't...

Of course spending $500 on a receiver and 2 speakers gets you "better stuff", but...it is 2.0, not 5.1.

What else, besides TV/BD will you be using this system with?

5.0 system:
http://www.fluance.com/fluan5speaks.html
Sub:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16882115129
Receiver:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16882115313
It's all around $629 (5.1 system) but it will beat any HTIB system.

I bought a jamo 5.1 system. Honestly, I wish I would have started piecing it together. For example, like noted, 2.0 system then 2.1, 3.1, 5.1, 7.1... buy a nice pair of bookshelf speakers and a receiver. Later those speakers can be your surrounds. My 2 pennies...

Edit: here is a potential idea...

first, newegg has the best prices for Polk monitor and RTi, when on sale. Furthermore, for the month of July they offer 12 month no interest for orders over 500. (Preferred account)

Buy a pair of Polk monitor 60 for $120 each ($240 total)

Buy a onkyo 509 for $280 or used for cheaper

Total $520 and if you get a preferred account you have 12 months to pay it off

OR

step it up in the line and buy a pair of Polk RTi a3 bookshelf speakers ($280). However, that will put or total at $560. You'll get the upgrade bug and do it eventually anyway haha jk but I did

I'm honestly thinking either would be good for $399 - the receivers look nearly identical sans the 7.1 abilities on the NR509, and the lack of a second zone audio output on the kit receiver. I'd probably go with whichever (neither speaker setup is likely to be bad), you should be able to add better speakers to either.

That said, I personally would go with a receiver that features multi-ch preouts, and ideally a multi-ch line-in (essentially to ensure the receiver is more "future proof" and can have an amplifier added down the line as well) - the Yamaha RX-A700 and RX-V867 get you both, however by themselves they exceed the price of either package. You can find similar receivers from other brands (Onkyo TX-NR709, Harman/Kardon AVR3600, Denon AVR-3312CI (it lacks the multi-ch in though)). Add speakers as you can - as has been suggested. Start with your front L/R set, and then add the remaining speakers for multi-channel and a subwoofer as you feel, you can eventually add a power amp and even fancier speakers if you'd like (that's the advantage of the multi-ch outputs). It'll also be more compatible with future formats and devices, at least in theory (between HDMI and the multi-ch analog inputs, you shouldn't have issues in the foreseeable future). I would do this because it gives you more flexibility, and you should end up with a better overall configuration. Most components in this price are "HTIB" things - both receivers mentioned are found in HTIB packages, same for the subwoofer, speakers, and so on - I'm not saying any are bad, but you're still at the very bottom tier of components and generally are quite limited in terms of features and performance as a result (you also usually get the short-end when it comes to warranty terms and reliability, but not always, that said, speakers are fairly hard to kill with normal use). Middle-of-the-road is generally a better place to be.

Otherwise, I'd flip a coin between the two, unless you can find something substantive that compares the speakers - the receivers are probably the same exact thing inside, so it's down to the speakers. Again, I doubt either will be bad, but it's not like one is going to be lightyears ahead simply because it doesn't say HTIB on the box.

How big is your room? That would help determine things a bit.

And here is a thought:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...323&CatId=4586

Buy this now for under $500 shipped and save up for a sub for later.

I think that might work out pretty well for you, depending on the size of your room.

I would be careful going too feature rich on the receiver for now, paying for something you can't use and won't improve the performance of what you can afford seems overkill. Going to 7.1 means more speaker $$, going to pre-outs and ins with no extra amp is useless.

Yes in the future you could use those things. But if you get into this hobby, you probably will want the latest greatest AVR when you could afford to utilize those options. Because in 5 years there will be new surround standards and new hdmi standards and what you buy won't have those capabilities. As long as it can switch a few HDMI and do standards like DTS and Dolby Digital and pass 3d I wouldn't get too wrapped around the decision.

Speakers on the other hand...a) as you move up in price normally sound better no matter what AVR powers them b) can always be demoted to back channels on future system upgrades. So buying a lower member of a better line usually pays off.

If only this logic, was logical. Unfortunately it's not possible to gain build quality or input functionality without gaining other features as well - it isn't money wasted.


And for that reason, multi-channel inputs and pre-outs make sense - there are receivers from the 1990s that are still suitable in a modern environment, simply because they can connect to an external decoder or external power amplifier. The philosophy of buying a new receiver just because you're "into this hobby" is unsustainable and wasteful - buy the correct machine the first time, instead of going through a string of disposable components. No, you don't get to keep up with Mr and Mrs Jones, but you also aren't laying out money every few years as you outgrow your "temporary" purchases. Do your homework the first time, measure twice, and cut once.


Price does not directly influence quality. There are plenty of absurdly expensive speakers that sound like fud, and there are also plenty of high end/expensive speakers that will absolutely destroy some/most receivers. Ultimately there's a number of factors to consider, not just with speakers, but with everything. Again, measure twice, cut once.

I made none of the claims you attributed to me. We are talking about a $500 budget here keep that in mind.

Receiver - agreed the good stuff comes with the functionality, but the AVRs you suggest, by your own admission, are above the price by themselves. I want a Ferrari I can afford a BMW. When you are playing with this budget, I'm doubting an external decoder or amp is in the cards in the short to medium term.

As far as waste - I never buy "disposable" pieces nor suggest it. Every piece I've bought since 1994 is still in active use in my house or a family member because I did buy good stuff (save the odd VCR and 1st gen replaytv DVR). My 1st team is in my main room and then they get demoted from there.

I didn't directly connect price and performance, but I will say that 5 piece set for <$100 probably isn't worth much in the long run. Even cheap good speakers are more like $100 each. So getting a couple of those and a $200-$300 AVR is the best starting pt in my opinion for the given budget, then add the speakers as you can afford them. So I'd say his original $399 probably would be a good move.

Again we have a $500 budget.

Get the Onkyo 608 from A4Less for $280. Return the less-capable Denon. The Marantz is nice, but doesn't really give you anything the Onkyo doesn't, and warranty might be an issue with open box.

Save up to get a good sub later.

There is no "warranty issue" with an open box from BB, never has been, never will be.

The SR6005 is yes a better receiver(I'm tempted to get one for my kid to go off to college with and resell the Denon AVR 788 that I found for him earlier this summer)...

It is not as "feature" rich as the Onkyo 608 or 609(acc4less is a great place to get them)...

But the SR6005 has more connections(namely pre-out...if you'd ever use it)

Another one to look at(if Accessories4less is where you are willing to look) is the HT RC180 for $400. No it isn't 3D ready, but it is in a completely different league from the 6005 or 608/9

The HT RC180 is based on the NR807.

The HT RC270 is based on the NR708.

The main difference between a 70X and an 80X receiver is the chassis. The 50X, 60X and 70X all share the same chassis. The 80X rides on the same chassis as the 100X.
The extra power the 180 has is noteworthy. Not that you'd notice it in "real terms", but when you are watching Star Trek and the scene where they are "parachuting" down to the drill...the 270 will get through it, the 180 will breeze through it.

And that is the main difference between a one year newer receiver...the 270 has more features, the 180 is more powerful(don't judge it based on 100 vs 110, look at how much more power the 180 sucks off the wall than the 270...that translates into almost double the real power when actually doing 5.0...considering the sub powers itself)

That "power consumption" is also the main difference between the new 709 and stepping up to the 809, the 809 chews on electricity with reckless abandon(which is a good thing).

The 180/807 ran circles around their competition when they were new. When they debuted they actually sold for $900+. They kept that streak for 6 months. Best Buys up here kept stacks of both 10 feet off the checkout lines. That is how well they sold. That year, those two combined for darn near 60% of the AVR market in the $900-$1100 range. Onkyo ate EVERYBODY'S lunch with those two. That is why you still see them all over the place as refurbs. It is because of the sheer number of them out there.

When I see "energy star" on a receiver, the same thought goes through my head when I hear an old Chevy/GMC truck roll by with the Caterpillar motor...

"What a P...."

The 606 are good speakers. You'll like them.

Not always. Poor power efficiency should never be an indicator of output ability or quality- there are plenty of power efficient designs out there, and I would expect to see substantially more in the future as Class D (and other switching) topologies continue to fall in price and rise in popularity (some of these designs can approach 90% efficiency, and (to continue with the Gordon Gecko theme) absolutely eat most modern components lunch for them).

That said, more robust power sources are generally a good thing, as they will ensure more power is available to the output devices. How much power you actually need is determined by a lot of factors, and I like schan's Star Trek analogy.

Click the link in my signature for references.

I think you'll be alright with either of those options.

What did the Denon fail to do that had it going back? That might be worth at least being able to mark down on your own, so you can avoid whatever that problem was (or look for whatever feature that was lacking).

Ah. Didn't know that.





I think it would also work.


This is an interesting question. There was a thread along these lines a while ago. I think it was titled something like "Is Onkyo the Jaguar of AV?"

Overall, in my experience, Onkyo tends to fail more. This is both from online and personal observation. I've also read some absolute horror stories about Onkyo Customer Service here on AVS.

Regarding heat, a lot of modern AVRs that I've toyed around with, or helped setup, run much warmer than I'd be comfortable with (of all of my components, only one actually runs warm to the touch, and by modern standards its probably not even on the register). I'm of the philosophy that if you treat the AVR like a computer, and set it up somewhere that it can ventilate properly, you shouldn't have problems. It should not, however, run hot enough to prepare food.

All of the models you've found will probably work fine, my personal taste is Yamaha, but the Onkyos will probably do fine (And from what I know of Onkyo models, the 270 is a higher end component than the 609).

Ensure that whatever you get, you can return within a given window if you're unhappy, but I doubt any of the models you've listed would give you too much trouble. I'd suggest ensuring whatever you get has pre-outs, multi-ch input, and whatever decoders you want. The A800 should do this (the A700 does), the 270 probably does this as well, I don't know much about the 609.