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The "OFFICIAL" Pioneer Elite VSX-52 / 53 Owner's Thread - Page 47

post #1381 of 1569
My VSX-53 seems to make this chirp noise from time to time, especially when watching cable tv but also when watching other inputs. It seems to chirp when there is a scene change or right after a show goes from the "previously on Dexter" portion before the show starts to the actual show. Is there a setting that could be causing this? Any kind of reset I can do? The receiver did not always do this.
Thank you in advance for your assistance
post #1382 of 1569
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbecc1 View Post

My VSX-53 seems to make this chirp noise from time to time, especially when watching cable tv but also when watching other inputs. It seems to chirp when there is a scene change or right after a show goes from the "previously on Dexter" portion before the show starts to the actual show. Is there a setting that could be causing this? Any kind of reset I can do? The receiver did not always do this.
Thank you in advance for your assistance
Is it loud or faint? I thought I heard a low chirp watching Netflix tonight on my vsx52.
post #1383 of 1569
Sometimes faint sometimes very pronounced.
Quote:
Originally Posted by XBRSteve View Post

Is it loud or faint? I thought I heard a low chirp watching Netflix tonight on my vsx52.[/quoteo
post #1384 of 1569
Had my VSX-52 for a couple months now. I have an electronics background, so I think I can sift through the forum and pick-up some good information. But it is so much complex information that it is a bit intimidating.

I guess for now:

HDMI or Optical cable for my audio sources (DVR, DVD, etc.) which is better?

My sub woofer has a x-over which can be switched in or out. Sub-woofer manual says x-over in gives better results, but the Pioneer is so sophisticated, would it be better to let it control the x-over (sounds better with the x-over on the sub-woofer activated, so I think I already have my answer).

I will try to connect my wii this weekend, so any basic info would be helpful (I have the non HD version from around 2008).

If there any quirks - such as default settings that are "just wrong" and ought to be adjusted, I would really appreciate that info.

I am using 5.1 channels, with zone 2 used on outdoor speakers on my deck. medium Polk bi-directional in front, medium JBL center, 12in velodyne sub, medium Klipsch in rear. JBL 6 in 2-way outdoors. My room is hardwood floor about 17 x 20 with an older Toshiba 42 in LCD.

Zone 2 - only certain input sources will play in zone 2. Is there somewhere I can look this up?

I got a 100 ft Ethernet cable and upgraded the firmware last weekend! biggrin.gif
post #1385 of 1569
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullcitybob View Post

HDMI or Optical cable for my audio sources (DVR, DVD, etc.) which is better?

- Always use the highest version of HDMI, whenever available. It transmits uncompressed PCM data along with secondary soundtrack, if present. Also, it is not limited to 5.1, as opposed to Optical.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullcitybob View Post

My sub woofer has a x-over which can be switched in or out. Sub-woofer manual says x-over in gives better results, but the Pioneer is so sophisticated, would it be better to let it control the x-over (sounds better with the x-over on the sub-woofer activated, so I think I already have my answer).

- Use X-over on both the VSX and the sub. Play with speaker sizes after initial calibration. Mine were set to large automatically, but I changed them to small manually. If you have large speakers, you can turn sub output off, but usually subs can reproduce low frequencies in better detail, better than even expensive speakers can (provided you have a decent sub, of course). Your Velodyne can reproduce lower frequencies, with dedicated sub-specific internal amplification and less distortion. If you have a powered sub, it also takes the stain off the speakers and amplifier as well. Generally, THX certified subs are X-overed at 80Hz, everything higher is sent to speakers. This is a matter of preference. You can set them at 50Hz or 200Hz, whatever you like. Also, in VSX settings you have an option to send only LFE (Low Frequency Effects) or LFE+Speaker low frequencies (meaning if you are watching a 5.1 BluRay, the VSX will not only send the .1 to the sub, but also below whatever frequency you specified in the X-over, it will take it away from the speakers ). This is the PLUS setting for the sub. Make sure VSX X-over matches your sub's X-over, so no sound will be missing.
I have small Polk LSI9s for L/R, they go down to only 50Hz. My crossover is set at 150Hz, though. Whatever below this frequency is sent to a Sunfire HRS-10 (1000W), which is also set at 150Hz.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bullcitybob View Post

I will try to connect my wii this weekend, so any basic info would be helpful (I have the non HD version from around 2008).

If there any quirks - such as default settings that are "just wrong" and ought to be adjusted, I would really appreciate that info.

I am using 5.1 channels, with zone 2 used on outdoor speakers on my deck. medium Polk bi-directional in front, medium JBL center, 12in velodyne sub, medium Klipsch in rear. JBL 6 in 2-way outdoors. My room is hardwood floor about 17 x 20 with an older Toshiba 42 in LCD.

Zone 2 - only certain input sources will play in zone 2. Is there somewhere I can look this up?

I got a 100 ft Ethernet cable and upgraded the firmware last weekend! biggrin.gif

Only non-digital sources can be played in zone 2.

My suggestion to you is to play with initial setup (type of speakers, X-over, LFE, etc.) and audio parameters after reading the manual. Play different sources (CDs, Bluray, etc.) and create multiple memory profiles for each if you find different settings improve different sources. I have 3 memory settings (each has 5-6 different audio and video parameters adjusted differently, including equalization, phase control, delay, etc.) which I can switch with one button on the remote.

If you want only one memory setting (default post calibration), then I suggest you test and further improve it in with an H.M.G. source. For some reason when you play an H.M.G. file, MCACC does not cut off the source while you are in the menu. With all other sources it stops the sound and you adjust the settings in silence. So, you have to go back and forth - adjust, get out of menu, listen to results, then go back to make more changes in silence in the menu. But H.M.G. allows you to adjust and hear the effects of your changes in real time (lets say equalization for a center channel only, or front speakers, or X-over). Not sure why this is only possible in H.M.G. This also may be a welcomed defect in my VSX-53.

The VSX is a terrific device. I've had it for about 8 months and I am still learning. Don't be afraid to experiment. I ran initial calibration then played with all possible settings, except for speaker distance. If you get lost, the manual and the kind folks in this forum will definitely help you out. Good luck.
Edited by grigorianvlad - 8/3/13 at 2:11pm
post #1386 of 1569
With audio, HDMI only offers advantages when the source is high resolution - Blu-rays with lossless or multichannel PCM tracks, for example. With DVDs and DVRs and other such devices, it doesn't matter. Optical can handle DD and DTS and is just as good as HDMI with those sources. However, HDMI is a single cable solution for both video and audio, which generally simplifies connections and input switching.

If your sub has its own crossover, turn it off or set it as high as possible. The sub should play whatever the AVR sends it. Any frequencies filtered out by the sub will be thrown away, not redirected to the full range channels. Auto calibration systems often set speakers to Large, which is rarely correct, and they usually set the bass management crossovers too low. You can change speaker sizes and raise crossovers without adversely affecting the auto calibration.
post #1387 of 1569
How does the VSX-52 compare to the VSX-33? I can pick both up for about the same price but am having a bit of difficulty finding info on the 33 online. Thoughts?
post #1388 of 1569
I am considering buying a 5 channel power amp for my home theater. The VSX already has plenty of power, but I want to open up my LSI-9 speakers.
Here is the question for those who already use a power amp with their VSX-53:
Will all audio features of the VSX-53 be preserved with a power amp? In other words, I will not have to set it to AMP THROUGH, loosing EQ, phase control, etc?
I pretty sure the answer is "no audio features will be bypassed, just connect VSX outputs to the power amp", but I still want to be sure.
I am considering the Emotiva XPA-5.
Thanks
post #1389 of 1569
Nothing will change.
post #1390 of 1569
I got bored to tears today. Decided to bi-amp my Polk LSi-9 to occupy myself. I opened my VSX-53 manual and read the instructions. Just as everybody told me there wasn't a slightest difference. I understand you really need to crossover the signal first and then send them through two dedicated amplifiers to hear a difference. Has anybody tried VSX's bi-amping feature with good results?
post #1391 of 1569
Hey Guys. Audio question and in need of some advice. I have the VSX-52 and am ready to go Hi Res audio. Been looking at the N-50 lately, but am not sure if I need it since the receiver has AirPlay and since I'm fully involved in the Apple ecosystem, I only plan to purchase Apple Lossless files whenever possible. I also have a MacBook Pro which can handle anything I throw at it with no problem.

My question is, since I already use AirPlay, would the N-50 be redundant? It seems to have just a few extra features which I find useful. Thanks!
post #1392 of 1569
I remember when Harmon Kardon released the first networked player at $5,000. It had a 250GB harddrive. They sold about 50 units.
I would not pay $699 for something my VSX already provides with Airplay. Besides you can connect your PC directly to VSX if it has an HDMI output and listen to any kind of music or watch videos. I stopped using Airplay a very long time ago after I got a plugin for Winamp which significantly improves audio quality even if I play a CD on my PC. So, any music sounds clearer, crisper highs, punchier bass, extremely vivid vocals, like you are in the recording room.
The PC has 5TB of storage - plenty to go around.
The only plus is the looks of N50. It is nice to see another Elite badge next to AVR and BD player. But that is hardly worth even $70, not even talking $700.
Edited by grigorianvlad - 9/8/13 at 4:26pm
post #1393 of 1569
Hi all!

I'm getting my new sub on Thursday and wanted to ask a few questions regarding getting it set up with my VSX-53. I talked to the fine folks at SVS, where I'm getting my sub (PB-1000) and was told that I can set my x-over on my speakers to whatever I want. Currently they're set at 80Hz. He told me that I should set the LFE on the receiver to 120Hz so the sub is also getting the higher frequency lows that are above 80Hz up to 120Hz. That brings me to my first question:

1) From what I can tell, I can't set a x-over level for my sub and a different x-over setting for my other speakers. Is that true? If not, how do I do that?

2) If the answer to the above question is that I can only set the same x-over level for all speakers, including the sub, then what should I set it to?

I always thought that if you have good enough speakers you want to have them x-over at 80Hz, but then I will lose the higher end lows from the sub that are supposed to be so good. If I set all the speakers x-over in the receiver to 120Hz, won't I be losing some good detail/sound in the regular speakers?

In case it helps, here is what I have:

Pioneer Elite VSX-53
Polk RTiA5 Front L/R speakers
Polk CSiA6 Center speaker
Polk RT15i Bookshelf speakers for side surround
Polk FXiA6 Rear surround speakers
SVS PB1000 subwoofer (getting it Thursday)

I was really hoping to find this LFE setting in the AVR so I could set that to 120Hz while keeping my Polk speakers at 80Hz, but cannot find it. I'm kind of shocked that this receiver does not have individual settings for those, but apparently not. Unless one of you can tell me where it's hidden, which is the ideal solution, so I hope I'm wrong.

Also, I didn't want to bi-amp my fronts because I want to run a 7.1 setup, so I bi-wired them. Talk about a waste of extra speaker wire and money. Did absolutely nothing!

What to do?

TIA
post #1394 of 1569
fairly certain this receiver does not offer a way to set a different X-over for the sub.
post #1395 of 1569
Quote:
Originally Posted by KGB173 View Post

fairly certain this receiver does not offer a way to set a different X-over for the sub.

If that's true, which I'm fairly certain it is because I cannot find anywhere that will allow you to do that, then what's the preferred way of setting this up with equipment like mine? Should I keep the x-over at 80Hz and lose the high end low frequency in my subwoofer, or should I move the x-over to 120Hz to gain the high end low frequency from the sub, but lose the low end low frequency from my tower speakers?
post #1396 of 1569
mcaac thread good place to go on this topic, but most suggest 80hz, setting front to small and then running MCAAC.
post #1397 of 1569
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jestered View Post

If that's true, which I'm fairly certain it is because I cannot find anywhere that will allow you to do that, then what's the preferred way of setting this up with equipment like mine? Should I keep the x-over at 80Hz and lose the high end low frequency in my subwoofer, or should I move the x-over to 120Hz to gain the high end low frequency from the sub, but lose the low end low frequency from my tower speakers?

Although not familiar with MCACC, as is the case with Audyssey, you would likely just leave any speakers set above 80Hz alone and raise any set below 80Hz up to 80Hz as the subwoofer is generally always going to be able to handle the lower end frequencies much easier than your towers not to mention the sub has its own amp which will take some of the load off the AVR. Also note that although for those AVRs that do feature a LPF of LFE, the setting of 120Hz is standard, AFAIK, there generally isn't much LFE content above 80Hz so you're not missing much leaving it at 80Hz. And lastly, should you decide to add a second PB-1000 to your setup (2 subs smooth out the bass), call for a quote as we now sell SVS subs as well. smile.gif
Edited by jdsmoothie - 9/10/13 at 5:48pm
post #1398 of 1569
Quote:
Originally Posted by KGB173 View Post

fairly certain this receiver does not offer a way to set a different X-over for the sub.

Fairly certain that it does. I own one. My X-over is set at 150Hz at the VSX and the same at the sub.
Here is how to do it:

Home Menu => 4. System Setup => a. Manual SP Setup => 2. Speaker Setting.

The last option will be X.OVER: <>Hz

Keep in mind automatic MCACC calibration will override manual x.over settings. So you can run MCACC, then get to the settings described above, set all speakers to SMALL and set x.over to whatever you like. Keep the rest of autocalibration intact.

That is all there is to it.
Edited by grigorianvlad - 9/11/13 at 2:21pm
post #1399 of 1569
good point Vlad. However, it won't EQ it the sub, but set a crossover. I took his post as wanted to EQ the sub separately.
post #1400 of 1569
Quote:
Originally Posted by KGB173 View Post

good point Vlad. However, it won't EQ it the sub, but set a crossover. I took his post as wanted to EQ the sub separately.

Thanks, KGB. I re-read the post. It looks like Jestered wants a different sort of information:

"I was really hoping to find this LFE setting in the AVR so I could set that to 120Hz while keeping my Polk speakers at 80Hz, but cannot find it. I'm kind of shocked that this receiver does not have individual settings for those, but apparently not. Unless one of you can tell me where it's hidden, which is the ideal solution, so I hope I'm wrong."

I am completely confused. Why would you set all but front speakers at 120Hz x.over and the fronts aqt 80Hz? His Polk is a decent sub with a 10" woofer. However good the speakers are (barring the titans like the McIntosh XRT2K or the Genesis 1.2), the sub will handle LFE much better with its own amplification which is almost triple the AVR wattage, plus it will allow more headroom by taking the load off the amp. Someone above this post addressed this already.

The only possible reason I can think of is that Jestered is under the impression that sub somehow may not produce the difference between 120hz and 80Hz as good as the speakers. I dont know if this is true in his environment, but I tested every possible frequency between 16Hz and 20,000Hz in both speakers and sub and the sub (my sub, mind you) Both didn't produce any distortion at reference level between 20Hz and 150Hz) if used with the right crossover. Without the sub speakers distorted at below 100Hz (at reference level), which proves my point. With the sub at 16Hz I heard nothing, but strange fluttering, like an invisible 100 ton butterfly flying above my head. Wasn't exactly a sound, but rather a feeling. At 20Hz I still did not hear a thing, just some enormous pressure and my clock on the wall scared the living lights of me by exercising some sort of poltergeist. Shaking, rattling, jumping till I grabbed it so it wouldn't fall off the nail. It was at 25Hz when things finally came to life. My 3 dogs never been the same since the test! Scarred for life, poor creatures.

So, I let the sub do what it does best - handle LFE at the x.over that I like, 150Hz. The speakers handle what they should handle; everything that is spoken.

I've tested my speakers (also Polks) with different x.over settings and LFE mode and I found the following:

1) 150Hz crossover works best.
2) LFE settings set to PLUS (not just yes) work best
3) All speakers set to small works best

Of course, keep in mind this is applicable to my speakers and amp.
My fronts are Polk LSi-9s, sub is Sunfire HRS-10.

The settings he proposes would have made sense if the sub couldn't handle high Dbs for the entire diapason of 20hz-150Hz , but no, it is a good 300W sub. Perfect for a medium sized HT.

May be I am missing something here?
Edited by grigorianvlad - 9/11/13 at 6:33pm
post #1401 of 1569
Sorry if I wasn't clear. I'll try again:

I wasn't trying to set my speakers at different Hz levels, just my subwoofer. Also, I don't have a Polk sub, I have a SVS PB-1000 sub (got it yesterday). Here's my setup:

Fronts- Polk RTiA5's
Center- Polk CSiA6
Surrounds- Polk RT15i's
Rear Surrounds- Polk FXiA6's
Sub- SVS PB-1000

I called SVS when I was waiting for my sub to be delivered to ask an unrelated question and during that call was told that I should leave ALL my speakers at 80Hz except for the sub. I was told to use the LFE setting in the AVR and set the x-over for the sub at 120Hz. He told me that the sub can handle the higher lows really well, not just the low lows (gets down to 19Hz). So, what I was trying to figure out is how to keep ALL my non-sub speakers at 80Hz and have the sub set at 120Hz. There obviously would be some overlap from 80Hz to 120Hz between the sub and other speakers, but that's what I was told to do (if my AVR would allow it). Apparently this can't be done with this AVR.

When I got the sub yesterday I went through the MCACC and set the x-over at 80Hz. MAN!!!!! This sub has taken my speaker setup to a whole new level! I'm super-impressed with this SVS sub.

I plan on messing around with setting the global x-over at 120Hz, or maybe 150Hz, and see what sounds better. I'll likely leave it at 80Hz, but I'll do some non-accurate ear tests.

Hopefully that clears up any confusion around my question.
Edited by Jestered - 9/13/13 at 6:14am
post #1402 of 1569
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jestered View Post

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I'll try again:

So, what I was trying to figure out is how to keep ALL my non-sub speakers at 80Hz and have the sub set at 120Hz. There obviously would be some overlap from 80Hz to 120Hz between the sub and other speakers, but that's what I was told to do (if my AVR would allow it). Apparently this can't be done with this AVR.

When I got the sub yesterday I went through the MCACC and set the x-over at 80Hz. MAN!!!!! This sub has taken my speaker setup to a whole new level! I'm super-impressed with this SVS sub.
.

Now it makes perfect sense and actually seems very beneficial. Unfortunately there is no direct way to do it except for setting "LFE=PLUS", not just "LFE=YES". What this does is that it sends BOTH discrete LFE signal (the .1 in your 7.1) to the sub, but also the low frequencies from the speakers. "LFE=YES" sends only the .1 to the sub. So, there will be an overlap which is exactly what you looking for. Again, it does it equally for all speakers. So, try that with setting speaker sizes to different sizes (SMALL / LARGE).

But setting x.over differently for each channel - I dont think that is possible in the VSX.

The instructions are above on how to set that up.

Thanks and good luck. You have one sweet set up, I tell you! Congrats!
post #1403 of 1569
Quote:
Originally Posted by grigorianvlad View Post

Now it makes perfect sense and actually seems very beneficial. Unfortunately there is no direct way to do it except for setting "LFE=PLUS", not just "LFE=YES". What this does is that it sends BOTH discrete LFE signal (the .1 in your 7.1) to the sub, but also the low frequencies from the speakers. "LFE=YES" sends only the .1 to the sub. So, there will be an overlap which is exactly what you looking for. Again, it does it equally for all speakers. So, try that with setting speaker sizes to different sizes (SMALL / LARGE).

But setting x.over differently for each channel - I dont think that is possible in the VSX.

The instructions are above on how to set that up.

Thanks and good luck. You have one sweet set up, I tell you! Congrats!

Aha! I won't be able to check until I get home from the office, but I definately think you're on to something! I remember seeing the PLUS setting for the sub, but wasn't sure what that was for. From your description I can tell I don't want YES, but do want PLUS. I have another question or two regarding this now though:

1. Do you have any idea what the high side Hz limit is that is sent to the sub when using the PLUS setting? If it's 120Hz and below being sent to the sub with PLUS being enabled, then that's all I needed and will run with that when I get home.

2. If the high side Hz limit when using the PLUS setting is higher than 120Hz... I'm assuming I would then use the x-over on my actual sub and set that to 120Hz to get exactly what I'm wanting.

Does that make sense? If so, is it correct?

I appreciate the help and the compliment on my speaker set up. I love it so far!
post #1404 of 1569
I sincerely suggest you read the manual here
Page 12 addresses your question, although it does not specify frequencies. My takeaway from it is that you should set speakers to different sizes, LFEto different modes and X.over to different values.
One more thing for you to play with, and you are going to love this, is to equalize different channels to your liking, individually, in a 9 band equalizer each. This is described on page 65 of the manual. So, go to Equalization, increase your 120Hz by 2Db on fronts only and see if you like what you hear. These WILL NOT go to the sub, but will be accented in the speakers of your choosing.
Here is how to get there (make sure nobody's home because it will be loud):

Home Menu => 1. Advanced MCACC => c. Manual MCACC => 4. EQ Adjust.

I played with it, but the only thing I changed was an increase 16kHz by 2DB on L/R only.

If you want your sub to do the same, I am afraid subs like that (the ones that provide EQ by connecting to a PC using some software) cost somewhere above 2-3 grand.

For now your only options are gain, phase and x.over I am afraid.

May or may do what you want.

With the VSX you have to forget the good old home stereo mentality. It doesnt just spits out the sound like some low level Circuit City (R.I.P.!) crap amplifier. It reproduces it with great care after measuring your listening room with hundreds of parameters. It measures standing wave, reverb, creates sweet spots (multiple sweet spots at the same time, mind you, I still cannot wrap my mind around this concept). It allows you to add depth, height, full head phase control, uncompresses MP3s while they are playing, etc.

Its a completely different animal in a whole new zoo.

But then again its your own VSX and you have the right to treat it as you wish.
Edited by grigorianvlad - 9/13/13 at 1:16pm
post #1405 of 1569
Trust me I've read that manual from front to back more times than I can count. The thing is practically falling apart. The problem is the manual is very good at the brief explanations of what the AVR does, but it does not get very detailed at all. For the average person it's probably sufficient, but for someone like me that wants more detailed information about what it's doing, it simply isn't that useful. For example, all I really need to know is if I put the LFE to PLUS, the manual says it will send the high end lows from the front speakers and send that to the sub. Great! What it doesn't tell you is if it removes those signals from the front speakers and only sends them to the sub, or if the front speakers and the sub are both getting those high end lows. If it sends those signals to the fronts and the sub, great! If it's only sending those to the sub and no longer to the fronts, then that's not going to work for me. If it sends those signals to both, even if it's sending the higher (120Hz+) signals to the sub, I can simply turn on the x-over on the back of the sub and set that at 120Hz. But the manual does not give you that information.
post #1406 of 1569
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jestered View Post

Trust me I've read that manual from front to back more times than I can count. The thing is practically falling apart. The problem is the manual is very good at the brief explanations of what the AVR does, but it does not get very detailed at all. For the average person it's probably sufficient, but for someone like me that wants more detailed information about what it's doing, it simply isn't that useful. For example, all I really need to know is if I put the LFE to PLUS, the manual says it will send the high end lows from the front speakers and send that to the sub. Great! What it doesn't tell you is if it removes those signals from the front speakers and only sends them to the sub, or if the front speakers and the sub are both getting those high end lows. If it sends those signals to the fronts and the sub, great! If it's only sending those to the sub and no longer to the fronts, then that's not going to work for me. If it sends those signals to both, even if it's sending the higher (120Hz+) signals to the sub, I can simply turn on the x-over on the back of the sub and set that at 120Hz. But the manual does not give you that information.

I can understand your frustration. Mine is falling apart too, and its a pdf smile.gif

"If it sends those signals to the fronts and the sub, great! "
Yes, judging by the manual which says if you set it to PLUS the lows might cancel each other out (meaning BOTH the sub and the speakers produce the same lows) you are correct.
post #1407 of 1569
Quote:
Originally Posted by grigorianvlad View Post

I can understand your frustration. Mine is falling apart too, and its a pdf smile.gif

"If it sends those signals to the fronts and the sub, great! "
Yes, judging by the manual which says if you set it to PLUS the lows might cancel each other out (meaning BOTH the sub and the speakers produce the same lows) you are correct.

Ah! I either didn't catch that or it didn't make sense to me. I'll definitely put LFE to PLUS then. I'm not sure how high the frequency is that it's going to "share" with the sub, so I'll just set the built-in x-over in the sub to 120Hz and that should do exactly what I'm wanting. Well, it should do exactly what the SVS guy said I wanted. :-)

Thanks for all your input and help! It's very much appreciated.

You should download another copy of that PDF that's falling apart!!!!!
post #1408 of 1569
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jestered View Post

Ah! I either didn't catch that or it didn't make sense to me. I'll definitely put LFE to PLUS then.

I would test it first.
Consider this.

1) Your fronts Polk RTiA5s go down easy, down to a 30Hz. If your sub produces the same frequencies they may cancel each other out within some range of frequencies. So, both are working hard, but some (or most) of the bass is MIA. This is certainly a possibility. That is why some high end gear like the $11K Crestron Procise have 3 different balanced sub outputs: L/R/C, each with its own discrete LFE guaranteed not to cancel each other out.
here is what it looks like





Your VSX - just as mine - has 2 sub outs, but they produce identical signals and are unbalanced. The VSX just cuts LFEs from all channels, cramps them into one mono track and sends it to up to 2 possible subs via an RCA connection.

2) Suppose there is no mutual cancellation between the sub and fronts. Still, if you play loud with LFE=PLUS, your front lows will start to fart like they ate hot burritos all morning. Especially if you play bass heavy soundtracks. This will stand out even with the sub, which will try to cover the distortion, but may not be able to. So, test the speakers alone at max volume you would normally tolerate (not the amp's max volume). You may find your fronts somewhat exhausting after 5-10 mins without the sub, just a possibility. Mine aren't, but I rarely listen above -20 and my music of choice is Alva Noto and Monolake which isn't music at all. Meaning there is even rarely a drum beat in their works.

The purpose of the sub is to handle lows separately, allowing L/Rs do the rest more clearly , with more amp power and headroom.

Here is what I did . I played 2-3 soundtracks from each kind of music I like with different settings. Since I like all kinds of music barring rap and country, it took me 3 months. I work from home laying on a couch in my pajamas, with a laptop on my stomach, so I can listen to loud music any time I want to. I then got a CD with test sounds ranging from 16Hz to 20,000Hz.



I played each 30 second sound byte with different settings as well to make sure they dont cancel or sound exaggerated. You can even measure each frequency's loudness with different settings with a semi-professional equipment or go for a freebie like I did:



This exercise is for the most part futile as even with the $0 price tag these freebies are way overpriced, but they will keep you busy for hours. And just as my wife in her infinite wisdom often says when she sees my playing with all these apps, wires and hardware: "A busy child is a happy child".

And that is what it is all about. The day we finally grow up is the same day that will be written on our death certificates.

So, my suggestion is to test the settings thoroughly. Your happiness is at stake here!
Edited by grigorianvlad - 9/14/13 at 4:45am
post #1409 of 1569
Quote:
Originally Posted by grigorianvlad View Post

I would test it first.
Consider this.

1) Your fronts Polk RTiA5s go down easy, down to a 30Hz. If your sub produces the same frequencies they may cancel each other out within some range of frequencies. So, both are working hard, but some (or most) of the bass is MIA. This is certainly a possibility. That is why some high end gear like the $11K Crestron Procise have 3 different balanced sub outputs: L/R/C, each with its own discrete LFE guaranteed not to cancel each other out.
here is what it looks like





Your VSX - just as mine - has 2 sub outs, but they produce identical signals and are unbalanced. The VSX just cuts LFEs from all channels, cramps them into one mono track and sends it to up to 2 possible subs via an RCA connection.

2) Suppose there is no mutual cancellation between the sub and fronts. Still, if you play loud with LFE=PLUS, your front lows will start to fart like they ate hot burritos all morning. Especially if you play bass heavy soundtracks. This will stand out even with the sub, which will try to cover the distortion, but may not be able to. So, test the speakers alone at max volume you would normally tolerate (not the amp's max volume). You may find your fronts somewhat exhausting after 5-10 mins without the sub, just a possibility. Mine aren't, but I rarely listen above -20 and my music of choice is Alva Noto and Monolake which isn't music at all. Meaning there is even rarely a drum beat in their works.

The purpose of the sub is to handle lows separately, allowing L/Rs do the rest more clearly , with more amp power and headroom.

Here is what I did . I played 2-3 soundtracks from each kind of music I like with different settings. Since I like all kinds of music barring rap and country, it took me 3 months. I work from home laying on a couch in my pajamas, with a laptop on my stomach, so I can listen to loud music any time I want to. I then got a CD with test sounds ranging from 16Hz to 20,000Hz.



I played each 30 second sound byte with different settings as well to make sure they dont cancel or sound exaggerated. You can even measure each frequency's loudness with different settings with a semi-professional equipment or go for a freebie like I did:



This exercise is for the most part futile as even with the $0 price tag these freebies are way overpriced, but they will keep you busy for hours. And just as my wife in her infinite wisdom often says when she sees my playing with all these apps, wires and hardware: "A busy child is a happy child".

And that is what it is all about. The day we finally grow up is the same day that will be written on our death certificates.

So, my suggestion is to test the settings thoroughly. Your happiness is at stake here!

Thanks for all of that. Very good and informative information! I actually set it like I mentioned last night and didn't like it, so I'm back to a global 80Hz crossover and am completely happy with how it sounds.

I'm curious. I have a SPL meter that I use to match my sub level with my other speakers (75db) and, just like you, I like playing around with this stuff. What kind of things can I do if I get a CD that has those different frequency test tones? I believe I've seen somewhere where those test tones can be downloaded and are free. Do you have any suggestions on which to use?
post #1410 of 1569
This should get you started. These are MP3s. Right click and save as if you want to keep them.
If you want uncompressed audio files - that is also possible, but not on this site. The site provides you with a lot of tests, you just have to click deeper in the sublinks. Its a free site.
Its main value isnt just the test tones, but how to interpret what you hear, whether it is normal and how to correct the problem
Pay attention to The Subwoofer Kick Drum Test
Enjoy
PS. If you want an uncompressed file - let me know
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