The "OFFICIAL" Pioneer Elite VSX-52 / 53 Owner's Thread - Page 3

I bought the VSX-52 a couple weeks ago at BB Magnolia. Here is my review:

My System:
- B&W DM600 series all around. 602 front, 603 surround, LCR center, and 10" 200W sub
- Older 1080I 42" Panasonic Plasma TV
- Cheap Blu Ray player
- Ipod dock with analog output
- Comcast HD DVR
- Harmony 550 remote makes it all wife friendly
- Room is an acoustical nightmare. High ceilings, open to a 2 story foyer on one side and a tile kitchen on the other. 6 large windows.
- Speakers set to small with 80hz crossover, same as my last AVR.

This unit is replacing a NAD T762 that developed decoder issues.

* Setup with MCACC was fairly straightforward followng the directions in the sticky. The first time, it did not sound so great. I think the mic was too close to the back of the couch. I redid it with improved results.

* Surround Sound is better than I was getting with the NAD. Everything is clearer and blends better. The center channel sounds more life like also. I attribute the clarity to the MCACC room setup, but I don't know what's making the center channel better. I always thought the speaker sounded colored, but not with the VSX-52.

* Stereo music was not as good as the NAD. Not as clear, and with something missing in the lower mid range. No amount of tweaking settings helped. Then I had a brainstorm! I have BiAmpable speakers, BiAmp cables, and now a BiAmp capable AVR. Maybe I could use a BiAmp setup? So I switched everything around and guess what, the sound is much improved. Much clearer, and the lower mid range pops. I think it's better than the NAD. I'm excited to see if it gets even better when I redo the MCACC for the new setup.

So - For sound quality, I am quite satisfied. This cost 1/2 what my last amp cost, and in my room, It sound better. I attribute much of this to the MCACC. The NAD had no room correction built in, and was set up by ear.

See my next post for the downsides

My Review, part 2

This is about all of the "high tech" features of the VSX-52.

* I was excited about the Internet radio capability (HMG), since I get poor reception, and there are some distant stations I like. The interface is terrible, requiring scrolling through menus. I could not find any way that I could turn on the unit, press a single button to select a station, and enjoy, like I can do with regular radio. Even worse is that it's not stable. Station drops out randomly, and you have to go to the unit to reset it. Stations change randomly. Sometimes, two stations play at once. I was not able to get it to play any station more than 1 hour without some problem spoiling the experience. I will go back to using my IPod until there is a firmware update.

* AirPlay. This is a great feature, when it works. Just select VSX-52 on the Ipod, and it plays there. I can select songs, pause, resume, and control the volume all right from the IPod. When it works. 1/2 the time the IPOD does not show the VSX-52 choice, and sometimes the connection is dropped.

* Bluetooth. This is a great idea, and it seems to work well. Range is limited to about 30 feet. It also sounds like the bandwidth of Bluetooth is very low. Makes my system sound like at cheap boom box. I returned the adapter and I will go back to using the Ipod dock.

* HDMI - The cable box downgrades to 720P when I turn the TV on. Sometimes, turning the TV on kills the sound feed. I tried the troubleshooting hints on the boards with no success. I disconnected HDMI from the cable box, and have it connected with component leads. So the way to make HDMI work reliably is to disconnect it. Seems to work fine with the BluRay player.

* This thing is big! I had to move my center speaker to accomodate the height, and take the back off my cabinet to accomodate the depth.

* The volume control is much too fine, in 1/2DB increments. Holding down the button makes it go too fast. I'm going to play with my Harmony remote to see if there is a setting for repeat speed, or else program it to repeat 6 times when I press the button so I get 3DB increments.

* There are no specs available for the IR in. I have tried a couple different things, and have not gotten it to work yet. I will eventually, but it would be much better if Pioneer just told us what's needed, instead of telling us to ask the remote supplier.

* I like that each input can be completely tuned without affecting the others. I have had a lot of fun tweaking all of the different settings, but eventually will get to the point where I never have to tweak again.

You will notice that most of the problems have one thing in common. They require the VSX-52 to work with with software and hardware from others, using poorly designed or nonexistent standards. I have decided not to return the unit because I doubt another brand would do these things better. It's too easy for manufacturers to point fingers at each other while not solving the problem.

A few initial observation after one week with the E-52:

Look/Feel: Not a big deal for me as my equipment is all out of sight, but I miss the Urushi finish. It looks like countless other AVRs now - nothing wrong with how it looks, but nothing special either. The flip down panel looks great but feels cheap.

Fit/Finish: Average for the class and exactly the same as the 1121. Not sure about the power cord fit as I didn't even plug in the one that came in the box - I'm using an MIT Z-Cord that fits fine, albeit not quite as tightly as it did in my prior pre-pro.

Set-up Ergonomics: Poor using the remote and the AVNavigator PC software. Terrific using the iPad app (note that the iPad app has more functionality than the iPhone app). IMO, the iPad app, and the iPhone app to a lesser extent, are indispensable unless you are a set it and forget it kind of person. It's also absolutely maddening that the remote doesn't have half of the discrete codes that the E-52 actually supports and that almost none of the discrete codes are in the Logitech database yet. Thankfully all of the E-32/33 discrete codes are in the Logitech database and those codes all work on the E-52.

Audio: I've only run MCACC on auto without any subsequent tweaking so I'm reserving judgment, but I'm generally pleased so far except with respect to the treble, which I find to be tizzy and harsh. I'm pretty sure that it's an MCACC issue, however, as when I put it in pure direct mode, the treble softens considerably. Interestingly, in pure direct mode with a stereo source, the E-52 sounds clearly inferior to the ancient Acurus Act-3 pre-pro that it replaced (I'm using the E-52 strictly as a pre-pro in zone 1), but with MCACC on, it sounds better, even with the treble issues. Running MCACC was relatively painless except for one really strange issue - I got an error message that my L and R speakers were out of phase (which they weren't) and that I needed to change the polarity on both speakers (which makes no sense - that would reverse the absolute phase of both speakers but not the relative phase of the speakers to each other). Weird as that was, when I changed the absolute phase of the speakers and re-ran MCACC, the phase error message was gone. So now I have my L/R speakers running in reverse absolute phase from my center and rears, which instinctively feels wrong, except that MCACC seems to think it's right.

Video: Fantastic, although I'm not entirely sure why. I knew that the Marvell scaler would improve SD content, but I wasn't expecting HD content to look better than it did previously when I had my HD sources going directly to my display. HD content is decidedly cleaner with less noise and fewer artificacts than previously. I thought I was imagining things until my wife said that she thought the picture looked much better as well. I haven't tweaked any of the video settings yet so I'm reserving final judgment on this as well, but so far so good.


Associated equipment: speakers (5.1): Martin Logan Aerius i F/L, Martin Logan Fresco C/RS, Velodyne FSR-1200; external amplifier: Sunfire Cinema Grand; Kimber Hero interconnects; Nordost Blue Heaven speaker cables; MIT Z-Cord power cords; Panny 50 7uy gen plasma. I know, my associated equipment is ancient, but I haven't found any new equipment that would be appreciably better that wouldn't cost an arm and a leg except with respect to my display, but I'm waiting for either glassless or better passive 3D before upgrading that piece.

Hi Rkwak,


Ya know I was looking at the Videos on the website that showed the Ipad and I was waiting to see if someone was going to comment on that!
I have been on the shelf about getting an Ipad..Maybe I will just have to do that.
Can you use the Ipad wirelessly or do you have to stay connected?


FYI.. My front L & R speakers also came back "Reverse Phase" look on page 27 of the OP Manual, 2nd column from the left and about 3/4 down the column..
You will see:

"Reverse Phase" may be displayed even if the Speakers are properly connected.

If Reverse Phase is displayed the speakers wiring (+ and -) may be inverted.
Check the Speaker connections.

-- If the connections were wrong, turn off the Power, disconnect the power cord, then reconnect properly.
After this perform the Full Auto MCACC procedure again.

--- If the connections were right, select "GO NEXT" and continue.

I saw this section AFTER I had already flipped my Bananas even though I knew that my wiring was correct.
After seeing the above, I unplugged my E53 and put my Banana connectors back in correctly and then Plugged In and turned on!
I did not redo the MCACC and my setup sounds great.


Exactly..Right..I could not believe it either, my Pioneer Kuro never looked so Good..It was and still is Amazing!
A very nice added feature that I was not expecting!

Glad that you are enjoying your new E52

Later,
Bud B

Hi Novakm,


Which Bluetooth adapter did you use?
There are two available: AS-BT100 and AS BT200
The notations on page 35 states:
With the AS-BT100, some functions may not be available with this receiver.
It goes into "Pairing" quite a bit..Did you have good results when Pairing with Bluetooth?


Quick question, is your TV a 720P HDTV?
I had to go into my Time Warner Cable Box "Scientific Atlantia" Explorer 8240HD DVR and setup my Video selections.
There are usually a lot of choices from Auto to locking in on say 1080i.
Google your Cable box and then check out it's "Owners Manual" like all equipment it will have one!


I love your statement:
No it is (just like this receiver) a matter of reading the manuals and setting it up accordingly!

With HDMI there is a Handshake between components that occurs.
With my Vizio HDTV I turn on my Time Warner Cable Box and Vizio HDTV, I then turn on my Pioneer VSX 1020 last.
When my Pioneer 1020 clicks on and sends the HDMI Signal to the Vizio, it senses it and everything works fine.
However if I turned on my Vizio last after the HDMI signal had already been sent to the Vizio for some reason it did not search it out!
But if it was "ON" waiting, it seemed to see the HDMI Signal better when the receiver threw it to it!

With My Pioneer Kuro Plasma and Elite VSX 53 and another Time Warner HD DVR Cable box, it does not seem to make a difference what order I turn things on.
There are posts here at AVS about Vizio's and their HDMI Handshake issues.
So you may want to try it again but with various "Power On Sequences"
Your description sounds like a Handshake issue and your equipment!
Once you have that down you will have no further worries.
HDMI is much better than Component for Video and especially for Surround!

For anything frustrating Ask in here and if all else fails..Call Pioneer..
I have spoken to them twice and practically get right through.
Have an IR question give them a Call and then share here!

Good Luck,
Bud B

Bud B:


My advice even aside from the iControl AV2 app is that you take the plunge - odds are that you will fall in love with it as almost everyone has, and if you don't, you can just return it. That said, iControl AV2 is so much more polished and elegant than the receiver's built-in interface that it's hard to believe that the same company designed both (or perhaps they outsourced the iOS app design?). Just a couple of the benefits of the app that correlate to criticisms that some have voiced about Pioneer's interface: with the iPad app you can use the iPad screen keyboard to enter input names as opposed to using the on screen GUI where you have to cycle through each individual character one by one, and the app makes up for the lack of OSD when doing things like changing volume, source input, resolution or DSP modes.


Both the iPhone and iPad apps work over wifi, which is especially useful for Zone 2 use (I use the iPhone app to adjust the Zone 2 volume, source, etc. from the dining room, kitchen, patio, etc.)


Hmmm, I assumed that it was indicating that my L and R speakers were out of phase with each other, but perhaps I misunderstood and it was actually indicating (incorrectly) that my L and R speakers were out of phase from my center and rears. My L and R speakers are dipoles and I have heard that dipoles can result in incorrect MCACC phase readings, so that makes some sense.

I tried to start a new thread for this but it hasn't shown up so I''ll post here in hopes of a response
I just purchased the Elite VSX-50 because it was time to upgrade to video upconversion, HDMI and I was very excited to see that it has Airplay built-in allowing me to stream iTunes off my Mac laptop. However, I am very unhappy with the following 2 glitches - are these universal to all newer receivers?
1. I cannot listen to music unless the TV is also on. The Pioneer rep said this is due to the HDCP protocol. Unacceptable in my mind - more wear and tear on my TV plus energy burned? This can't be the case with all of these HDMI receivers.
2. I can't watch a video source and listen to a different audio source. I had a Denon 12 years ago that had this feature and it was, as Borat sez, very nice.

So I'd like to have a receiver that addresses both of these issues and talks nice with iTunes. I listen to predominately music - I could care less how much the receiver makes the missiles in a Michael Bay movie sizzle (and I wouldn't be caught dead watching a film from said director).
HELP - any suggestions?
I just bought a pair of Ascend Sierra 1s for my mains but pipe dream is to own a pair of Maggies so preouts on the receiver would be a plus. Thanks in advance!

I can't speak to the VSX-50, but that is not true of the VSX-52, makes no sense and I suspect is incorrect.


Again, I don't know about the 50, but you can do this on the 52/52 by assigning whatever audio input you want to a video input. It does require going into the input setup menu to do so and would take maybe 5-10 seconds to set it up rather than simply pressing one button, but it can be done.

Hi all,

FYI... I watched a movie on HBO today called "Gangs of New York" with Leonardo Di Caprio.
The Surround was Great!
If you have HBO and get a chance check it out!

Bud B

I have VSX-52 running with a UVerse Cisco box. All HDMI high speed cables.
On some tv channels I am experiencing some random audio drop outs.
Some channels work just fine.

Any thoughts?

Hi

I have a Time Warner Cable Box and it is not unusual for either Audio or Video anomalies. Though it is rare!
Think of the receiver as a dumb box..if it sees audio and video it processes it and if not it does not!
GIGO (Garbage In, Garbage Out)
The fact that some of your channels are fine and some are not tells me that it is more than likely the Input, your cable Box or Cable System.
The E52 is not smart enough to differentiate one channel from another, just whether it sees an Input Signal or not.

Keep track if it is always the same channels that drop out and if so call your Cable Operator to see if they are aware of the problem.

Good Luck,

Bud B

Does anybody know if the 53 does video over AirPlay. The manual just says audio. Also can you use airplay on the second and third zones.

Thanks!

Wow, Lots of discussion since I logged in last.


No, it does not play video over AirPLay, but it will play the sound track


Mine will work with the TV off, and only play sound. I have a Motorola cable box. Sometimes it won't play sound with the TV on!

I had the BT100. Didn't realize there was a better one. I will say it worked flawlessly. No problems pairing, controls worked, all day long. Just sounded bad. Like the difference between a Bose headset and Ipod ear buds.

Bud,

It is a 1080I TV, but it's HDMI v1.0. The cable box is a Motorola DCH-3416. There is an endless post on the forum about this unit. Lots of "witing for Motorola to release a firmware update" etc. Most people lose video. I lose sound. I have tried every possible sequence for powering up and down, but none of them work reliably. The only reliable part is the resolution sets to 720P if the TV is on. If I turn the TV off, it goes back to 1080I.

Changing to components from the cable box to the AVR did not quite work out either. The video is not synced to the sound. There is an adjustment for this in the AVR, but it's different depending on if the box is sending a stereo signal of a surround signal, and it's hard to get right, so I'm not going to adjust it every time the program changes.

So I thought I would try using HDMI to the AVR, and components to the TV, using the component input. As long as there is an HDMI connected to the TV, the cable box resets to 720P, even if the TV is set to use the component input.

The way I have it set up now is HDMI, using TOSLINK from the TV back to the AVR for sound. It's still only 720P, but at least I always get sound.

Any other ideas would be appreciated.

not sure if this is the right forum for this, but I thought I'd give it a try.

I am purchasing a new reciever in the coming week and have narrowed my choices down to last year's SC-35 for $749 (new, from Costco) or this year's VSX-52 from Best Buy for $869 (with a discount).

I've degenerated over the years to a relative novice, but from what little reseach I've done, I know that the SC-35 has more power and is possibly more advanced with regard to sound along with 3 zones vs 2, among other things, but it appears that the VSX-52 may have more advanced video and the firmward can be updated.

So, any advice on which one I should go for? Pros and cons?

Hi kkennedy72,
And to others in this dilemma...LOL!

I was just at Best Buy and they had the Elite SC35 and the Elite VSX53 setup one over the other. Yea what's the Odds!
I had one of the salesman set it up so that both would play to the same set of Speakers and I could easily switch between the two receivers.
Same CD Input and same Soundfield selection.
We closed the doors and cranked them!
They both sounded great but the E53 was a bit brighter but still Full and Bass satisfied.
As I clicked back and forth between these receivers they were even running at the same level dB.

I talked to the salesman and I concluded that the SC35 did not show me (Or blow me away) a big enough difference in Sound to pass up all of the advanced features of the E53 over the SC35.
Next year when the new and improved SC's arrive with the advancements over this years SC 55 & 57, will date the SC35 and SC37 even further.
I just feel that I can grow forward with the E53 more than the SC35!

I wish that if I changed from my E53 it would be to the SC55, but I just cannot for the Life of me Rationalize the extra $800.00 for the SC55.

Myself I AM very happy with my Elite VSX 53 and that will be where I stay!
Even Best Buy has Priced the SC35 on Clearance for the same price as the Elite VSX 53, so I do have the ability to return my one week old E53 for a straight swap with a SC35!

If someone can convince me that the SC35 is the way to go and give up all of the E53 Features..I'm Listening!
The SC35 does not have "Air Play" or "Air Jam" "Home Media Gallery" is on the SC37 and not the SC35..The SC35 has Internet Radio but not HMG.
There is no Ipad support and in a post above, that talks about the I-Pad App really intrigues me.
There are also some other Features that the E53 has over the SC35.

So that's my opinion and from someone who is IN THIS Quandry, that is my take on it....

But that's me and YOU need to decide for YOU whether the changes between the two make any difference to you...

Good Luck with that,

Bud B

Thanks, Bud B! Excellent input. If anyone else cares to weigh in, I'd love to hear from them, but this may be all I need.

Hi again,

One last point.
If you live in a big house and or have power hungry speakers and Amplifier Power is your main concern over features then maybe the SC35 is for you.
The SC35 is 140 watts with a Class D Power Amp and the VSX 52 & 53 are 110 watts and not a Class D Amp.

I wish that you could go into a listening room like I did!
If there is a Best Buy "Magnolia Home Theater" Store near you, do yourself a favor and go in and see and hear them for yourself!
The weekend is here!
Also check out the SC35 Owners Thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1258429

Later,
Bud B

I'm not here to change your mind. Had my SC35 for a week this Friday and i am more than happy with it. I only use it for my Pioneer Elite DV59 AVI, Pioneer Elite 05FD BD player and a Oppo 83, and the optical out from my Kuro. I don't use the airplay, ipod or any of that other stuff. I run a set of Klipsch RF7's, RC7 and RS7's as well as a Sunfire True sub, this is in a about 15x16 bedroom. The SC35 replaced a Pioneer 1120k AVR and a Emotiva UPA2 amp. I would say the SC35 does as good or maybe better than my 1120k and UPA2 . I will keep it for maybe 2 years until the bug bites again.

Bud B,

I live in a relatively large house, but other than using the receiver for my home theater, I have in wall speakers. They're relatively large and high quality, but I don't think they need exeptional power from the reciever. Especially considering that I will be using an amplified speaker selecter along with this.

Thanks for the follow up.

kk

Thanks, Chasls2. As you can see from my reply to Bud B, I am not driving state of the art speakers and I do plan on using it extensively for my iPod and possibly an iPad, so based on Bud B's feedback, I am leaing toward the VSX-52. That said, I still find the power and construcion of the SC-35 appealing, so it may still be in the running.

OK Bud, one last question, if it's not too much trouble. How about the differences between the 52 and 53. What are they and are they worth the extra $200?

kkennedy72: not having had any direct experience with the SC35 or 37, I can't speak to the qualitative differences, but the features sets are a little bit different and you should give some real thought as to the value of those relative to your preferences and priorities. I recently had considered the SC37 as well but chose the E52 because the features that the SC37 had over the E52 didn't matter to me (e.g., I use an external amp and don't need a second hdmi out) whereas the features that the E52 had over the SC37 did (e.g., better iOS integration and HMG). The only issue that gave me brief pause was that the SC37 does appear to have some other extra audio features (e.g. full band phase, possibly better DACs though I'm not sure, etc.) unrelated to the amps that might or might not represent meaningful improvements over the E52. At the end of the day I decided that the qualitative audio differences, if any, would likely be less noticeable to me on a day-in day-out basis than the other feature differences that had me leaning towards the E52. As between the E52 and the E53, as I didn't care about the extra HDMI output on the E53 and having already decided that the full band phase control wasn't critical, it was an easy choice to go with the E52.

All that being said, I'm not entirely satisfied with the sound of the E52 yet, although as I note in a post above, I suspect that may be due to the MCACC calibration of the treble and I'm hoping I'll be able to remedy that with some tweaking. It's worth mentioning, however, that while I am a recovering audiophile and am generally less critical of a listener than I used to be, occasionally, and particularly when it comes to the treble region, my audio OCD comes roaring back and I obsess over things that most people (and all sane people) wouldn't give a second thought to.

Hi CHASLS2,

Let me ask you a question..straight up..
Do you think that the SC35 significantly Blows Away the Elite VSX 53?
In ALL ways? Setup, Sound, Features.

The E53 obviously has many of the same features as the SC35 plus some additional features that the SC37 has and the SC35 does not have.
Even if I do not use all of them today, they are there for me to Grow into.
I like Options.

I downloaded the OP Manual and went through it page by page.
There are a lot of Features in the SC37 that is also in the VSX 53 but not in the SC35...

SC 37 and the VSX 53 (But not the SC 35) Pages that these features can be found in the SC 35/37 OP Manual are shown..

1) Full Band Phase Control (Page 63) (Not in the VSX 52)
2) Home Media Gallery (Page 64)
3) Optimum Surround (Page 59)
4) Connecting to the Network through LAN Network (Page 38)
When connected this way you can play Audio Files stored on the Components of the Network, Including your Computer using "Home Media Gallery" Inputs..Handy for an HTPC which I have.
5) Group Delay (Page 111) (Not in the VSX 52)

VSX 52 & 53 Only and not SC 35 or SC 37..

6) I-Pad and Android Support
7) Software Update via Internet AND USB
8) 7.2 and 5.2 (Two Sub Outs)
9) iControlAV2 (APP)

I think that is about it, so I know that the SC 35 has a nice ICE Class D amp but is it worth sacrificing all of the above.
After my Sound Test I just did not think so....But that's Me.

Bud B

Hi Rkwak,

Not that I want you to take your E52 back and Lord knows I kicked it back and forth for a couple of weeks,
I am happy with my trade up to the E53.
I think that the "Full Bandwidth with Group Delay" final step in the MCACC of the E53 improved my overall sound.
This has also been mentioned in the SC 37 thread and some people said it really made their speakers come together.
This is obviously very subjective because I do not have the VSX 52 sitting beside the 53.
So it may ALL be in my Head! LOL!

I do not really have a use for the second "HDMI Out" but think, Patio Pool Party with two HDTV's (one inside and one Out) a second Zone and the Miami Dolphins playing on Both.
Are you Ready for some Football! LOL! After Football... Porn..I'm Kidding, I'm Kidding, but maybe Home Cam 1080/60P Videos or anything..
Better than running just a Cable to the other HDTV.
I look at the second HDMI as "Neat" and something I can use but is definitely not a deal breaker by any means.
Like I said above, "I like Options" Maybe I am not using this or that Feature today but I do have the choice, Tomorrow!

Also my E52 and now E53 was purchased with my BB Card so I got 36 months same as cash, no interest.
The additional $200.00 over 36 months comes out to just over $5.00 extra per month..I thought, "What the heck...I'll splurge! LOL!
I may not want to or Rationalize $800.00 extra for a SC55 but I can at least get to the top of the line for the VSX's.
So, it IS what it IS!
I'll probably have it paid off in a Year anyway.

So that's my E53 story...

Later,
Bud B

I can't say it blows the 53 away since i have to ever use a 53. I will say it's a step up from my 1120k AVR. I bought it for it's Ice amp. If you want more raw power then the SC35 is the choice.

Has anyone checked to see if airplay will play on Zone 2 or Zone 3? I know most receivers only do analog sources over the 2nd and 3rd zones.

Thanks!

Hi Big D,

Yes, this is from the VSX 51, VSX 52, VSX 53, SC55 and SC57 AirPlay description.

Because of the Multi-Zone capability I know that Zone 2 will and I am pretty sure that Zone 3 will as well.
However, just the VSX 53 and the SC 55 and SC 57 does a Zone 3.

Later,
Bud

Hi all,

I have a question.

Has anyone heard a clicking or popping noise when either changing channels on a cable box (HDMI'd into the E52 or 53) or when changing Surround modes?

Thanks,

Bud B