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The "Bacon Race" Theater / Patio / Bar Project - Page 11

post #301 of 2308
Thanks Queen.
post #302 of 2308
Thread Starter 
Saturday Recap:

So last night I found out that my Polish helpers decided to go to Denver and wouldn't be available until next week. So much for having them move my door while BIG and I worked on other things. It ended up changing our plans for the day.

So first thing we did today? The work we expected them to do! We demolished about 15" wide by 81" high of already finished wall to make room for the new doorway. Then we had to put in new side-studs and fill in some of the additional horizontal door-framing on the demo'd side. Then we had to frame in a small section that was more like 19" or so to the previous side of the old doorway. Now we have a doorway that is centered between the two columns! After going to Lowes to pick up some supplies, we grabbed some lunch and headed back.... where I was immediately assaulted by a window salesman. While I suffered though the pitch, BIG went to go work on the doorway with his new gunpowder nail gun. We didn't really get to do our "planned" work until 2pm. We bounced a few ideas around but with some blocking and re-use of ALL of our wood, we got it done. What can I say, the man builds a good wall.

Note: Green glue on an already vertical wall is a fun thing to watch. You really needed a video to appreciate the humor in the "SPLAT" each goop made when it hit the wall. I think BIG was having WAAAY too much fun.

BIG had to finish sanding the last two columns and then start using sanding sealer to prep them all for priming. And about priming... we said "Make it this color gray" but the example was from a different brand, so they said they couldn't. But with THIS brand I could chose any color, and not just gray. So I pulled out a full crimson color close to our red we are using.... but it came out pink and they said it was supposed to be lighter. I didn't want it lighter though,I wanted it a nice dark gray. So I'm going to take it back and demand a dark gray tomorrow. I will put no pink paint on these columns!

While BIG was busy with the column work and some finishing touches on our new doorway, I filled up the soffit with insulation and cotton. That actually went pretty quick. So I went to put up the red rope light. Let me tell you, we tried so hard to take a good picture, because when the lights are off and the rope light is on, the edges of the ceiling all look like there are flames from the soffit towards the middle of the room. But since it was dark, the long exposure kept amplifying the light, so it looked nothing like what it looks like. I'm going to have to find a good photographer to capture that look so we could show it to you.

After I was done with the rope light, I went into the equipment room and got the overhead light and the media rack outlets wired up. Finally circuit #2 could be enabled on the breaker box. A much needed independent circuit outlet is now available for our use!

I then cracked open the boxes to the acoustical cotton BPape sent me. I love this stuff! It has such a great feel to it and is really compacted. The only problem is that it is a PAIN IN THE ASS to cut. I tried a utility knife, I tried a drywall saw, i tried scissors, I tried a bread knife... they all sucked. BUT... in the end I used some of each and covered the front wall in 2" 3lb dense cotton.

BIG was just finishing sealing the last column when I bored a hole from the equipment room to the soffit for a small 8" conduit to run the rear speaker cables. I caulked the edges and called it a day.

So since we were delayed, there was no work to the soffit panels, no priming of the columns, and no work on the framing of the equipment rack.... BUT, there is always tomorrow!

NOTE: I need to really start taking my own pictures! It's a strange feeling not taking pictures of my own build. I was telling BIG today that since he is taking all of the pics and doing most of the write-ups it doesn't even feel like my thread! So I apologize that there are no photos with this write-up.
post #303 of 2308
Did you try an electric carving knife? Works a treat on OC 703 and Roxul AFB, I would think it would work on the cotton too?
post #304 of 2308
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Horstkotte View Post

Did you try an electric carving knife? Works a treat on OC 703 and Roxul AFB, I would think it would work on the cotton too?

No I did not, but the consistency of the 2" cotton is like the worst part of fiberglass when you try to cut it.... it clumps and bunches and tears. At least fiberglass can be squished and easily cut with a utility knife. This doesn't work that way. The bread knife I used sliced through the OC703 like soft butter. The cotton just tears and shreds in weird chunks. BIG suggested we try a table saw. I emailed Bryan Pape about it. The cotton is an awesome material. I just need to solve the mystery of carving it!
post #305 of 2308
Looks like some others did have success using a table saw (I assume with a very fine blade):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=887010
post #306 of 2308
Some more support for the table saw suggestion (at the very end of the article):
http://www.buildinggreen.com/live/in...how-to-install
post #307 of 2308
OK, yesterday was a long work day and when I got home, I ate and slept pictures didn't get posted.

In the beginning we had a door in an awkward location



We cut away a bunch of stuff



added some studding



Then some drywall, acoustical sealant, Green Goo and another layer



As for needing a professional Photographer? I'll just bring over my DSLR and tripod and set the right exposure time and we get a good shot, until then here is what a red rope light looks like only it isn't this bright in real life.



I told Damelon he should name the space the Red Light District Theater. In person it is a really interesting effect even with the other lights on, almost "flame like" as D pointed out.
post #308 of 2308
Thread Starter 
Mmmm DSLR. You would have to take the photo big cause I suck at it! My brother works as a producer in Cali, and his wife does graphic design work for movie trailers... so of course they are both know how to get a great photo. I can't believe how easy it is for them to get lighting and the shot perfect. They handed me their awesome camera and I still failed. I just suck at photos if it is not bright and sitting still. I also can not hold a camera steady so anything with a longer exposure would require a tripod if I took a photo.

Taking a look at those rope light pics, the biggest thing you see in the photos that you don't see normally is what looks to be the actual "rope light" on the ceiling. It is darker and more faded. Since the exposure is longer it picks up the hints of the rope, so it is a lot more pronounced in the photo than the subtle flame effect.
post #309 of 2308
I am following this one closely. You guys are doing a great job! Not to jump ahead, but have you decided on a screen yet? I assume you are going scope? I know you had said you ordered the new JVC RS45 and was also wondering if you were going to use lens memory or get a anamorphic lens. Keep up the good work!
post #310 of 2308
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by auburnu008 View Post

I am following this one closely. You guys are doing a great job! Not to jump ahead, but have you decided on a screen yet? I assume you are going scope? I know you had said you ordered the new JVC RS45 and was also wondering if you were going to use lens memory or get a anamorphic lens. Keep up the good work!

I am getting a scope screen yes. I have not ordered a JVC yet though. I put myself on the pre-order list for both the JVC RS45 and the Panasonic AE7000. I "think" I am going JVC. As for the screen, I am getting an AT screen, with SMX or SeymourAV. I'm waiting on word back from Ruben about a quote before I make my decision. With either projector I will be using Lens Memory. Not going to pony up for a Lens just yet.

Back to work! Updates later.
post #311 of 2308
WEEKEND RECAP

Some pictures summarizing the theater as it looked at 8PM yesterday.

Took another crack at rope light pictures, this time with the light tray lights on. This obviously ticked my little pocket camera into a faster shutter speed and the reds aren't overblown.





I think D mentioned that I was slaving away on the columns while he was doing many other electrical and insulation items. The tasks that I worked on this week involved putting wood putty on all the nail holes and other issues, sanding, applying a generous coat of sanding sealer, sanding again, then applying a dark primer (lesson learned from painting the light tray)

Here are the column parts





one other column task was to round over the edges of the frames to match the metal support structures, Also used some black silicon seal to glue them in place



The plan is for electrical and speaker wires to drop down inside the columns so in order to make the speaker covers removable I needed to notch the backs to fit over the wires.



Now that we had moved the door, Damelon installed the light controllers. Four RF dimmer switches. Stage, Light tray, Step lights and Rope lights. He used adjustable depth boxes and positioned them one inch out from the wall. Surrounded the switches with 1 inch of MDF so that we will have something to attach the fabric to when the wall gets covered with one inch thick panels. The dimmers are Leviton Vizia.



Now finally about 5:30 yesterday we got to our task of making the panel frames for the bottom of the soffits. Recalling that the soffits themselves contain a mixture of ductwork, vents and insulation for bass trapping we needed a combination of solid and open frames. Instead of stick built frames I suggested we just take plywood strips and remove the parts we didn't need.

Here is a part that will cover the duct work and have an opening for the vent.



The solid part covering the ductwork forms a quasi dead vent.

Here is an example of an open frame



we cut an labeled each piece corresponding to where it went in the room.

All in all I would say making them this way went a lot faster as we were done by 7:30

They will get painted black and covered in fabric.

These panels will be going on the soffit bottoms. Here is a shot of the insulation tucked up in the soffit, a layer of Fiberglass and a 1 inch layer of cotton insulation.



Not sure if anyone noticed the 2 inches of 3lb, cotton insulation that Damelon stuck on the front wall between the bass traps.



Speaking of painting things black that will end up behind black fabric, Damelon wasn't 100% convinced of the need for the extra effort. So I laid a piece of the GOM FR 701 over a piece of wood and took this picture.



Of course D said yes, but who is going to be taking a flash picture of my theater? My thinking is just about every visitor that has a camera in hand!

The weekend was not without it's gag reel outtakes. I decided to practice my baton twirling with an 8 ft soffit panel and put a little oops right in the middle of the ceiling. I also managed to saw a 2 inch gash in one of my old work tables. My new Bosch jig saw didn't even hesitate to let me know I was cutting not only the panel but also the table, sorry no picture I will insert one next time.



Some other tasks D completed included wiring up the equipment room outlet and installing a ceiling light.
post #312 of 2308
Thread Starter 
HA! My poor ceiling! Who put that there??

Oh you and your need to paint everything black! I hate painting, so any chance to paint something really excites me! I try to avoid it, even though I know he's right. And he knows I'm trying to avoid it, so he keeps mentioning it.

I had planned to come into work this morning, grab a cup of coffee, and post complete measurements and specs for all of our wall panels... and then I slammed my head into my desk when I noticed I forgot my pages of measurements at home. FAIL. Well, there is always later!
post #313 of 2308
Thread Starter 
Column, Trim, Riser, Stage, and Panel Measurements:

Note, all VERTICAL measurements of panels are subject to change. Some of the trim might be removed or changed in height. The center vertical panels might change in size (by up to a couple of inches) to make sure the door handle fits, etc.

There are 6 columns in the theater. At the tallest, the bases are 36" high. The center "grille" sections are 46" high, and the top seciton is 9" high. Making the total height 91". Currently there is a 3/4" gap or so above the columns where the soffit panels will go above them.

The riser is 12 3/4" high and the stage is 10 3/4" high.

This means the columns and panels are adjusted accordingly to fit based on the different floor heights in the room.

The 4 rear columns each lose 12 3/4" on the bottom sections, but two of them slide over the front edge of the riser, so they are shaped a little funny.

With that being said, that leaves the trim and panels. There are 5 unique "zones" to the room. Front side (between screen wall and first column), Middle Side (between two side columns), Rear side (Between side riser column and rear corner), Rear corner (between rear corner and rear column), and Rear Center (Between two rear columns). The other sections are just mirror images of these sections.

On the door side of the room, the center of the Middle Side zone will be slightly different to make sure the door opens and closes properly, but due to the extended hinge, changes should be very minor.

Front Side:
The front side has two different floor heights. The base floor and the stage floor. This effects the baseboard trim and the bottom black panels. Also, we do not wish to continue the trim and black/red combo panels all of the way to the screen wall.

Distance between front column and screen wall: 3'
All Trim is 3/4" deep. All Panels are 1" deep.
The first 1'6" will be a single vertical black panel with a height of 80 1/4". It will have a bevel on the edge only on the side facing the column and have a flat cornered edge along the other 3 sides.
Baseboard of 10" wide x 4" high between front column and stage. No baseboard on side walls at all along the stage.
Bottom black panels above the baseboard are an L shape, which has to wrap the stage lip. Closest to the column, this panel is 28 1/4" high, but just short of 10" toward the screen wall it encounters the lip of the stage. From there to the vertical black panel, this will be 17 1/2" high.
Above that, 2" high X 1'6" wide red trim.
Above that a single red panel, 1' 6" wide x 49 1/2" high.
Above that, 2" high X 1'6" wide red trim.
Above that, 5 1/4" high X 1'6" black panel.

Continued...
post #314 of 2308
Thread Starter 
The "Middle Side" zone is the only full height zone all the way across. This is the standard theme, which is modified below the chair-rail trim in the rest of the room depending on how high the floor is in that zone.

Width of the entire zone is 7' and Height is 91". Depth of the panels are 1" and Depth of the trim is 3/4".

Build from floor to ceiling:
Baseboard : 7' wide X 4" high. Red Paint. Rounded on the top edge
Lower Panels : Black GOM : 7' Wide by 28 1/4" high. Divided into 3 sections using horizontal bevels to give the appearance of 3 individual panels. Top and bottom sections are 10" high, center section is 8 1/4" high.
Chair Trim: 7' wide X 2" high, Red Paint. Rounded top and bottom.
Center panels : 3 Panels, Claret Accent GOM, 2'6" Wide Each, 49 1/2" high.
"Upper" Chair Trim: 7' wide X 2" high, red paint, rounded top and bottom.
Top Panel: 7' wide X 5 1/4" high. Black GOM. Bevel on edges.

(On door side, door is centered and has the same width as the center red panel)

----
The "Rear Side" zone starts behind the 2nd of the side columns and has a constant height to the back corner. Although the length to the back of the room is about 7' 1 1/2" or so, we will only build panels to a 7' width just like the middle side zone. The end will be hidden by the rear corner zone which has a depth of 4".

All of the measurements of the rear side zone are identical to the middle side zone with an exception of the Lower Black GOM panels. Since this zone is on the riser, the height of the lower black panels is reduced to 15 1/2" high. The top section of this panel will be 10" like the middle section, but that leaves a small 5 1/2" section to fill the remainder of the space between the baseboard.

Again, all other measurements are identical to the middle side zone.
post #315 of 2308
BIG and D,

What kind of RF Dimmers are those and why did you choose them over a Grafik Eye lighting solution or similar?

Also, how much difference is there in using the cotton on the front wall compared to lets say just 2 inches of OC703 material?
post #316 of 2308
Thread Starter 
The "Rear Corner" zones are between the back corners of the room and the rear wall columns.

The depth of this zone is different from the sides since this zone uses 4' wall treatments. After talking with BPape, we could use 4" of OC703, or 2" of OC703 with a 2" air gap behind it, which would be 85% effective as a full 4" treatment but at half of the cost. So everything will start with a 2" furring and then we will build 2" deep panels and 1 3/4" deep trim.

The width of this zone is 3' 1 1/2" Inches. (Note: This is not the width from the column to the wall, rather the width from the column to the side panels, which extend to the rear wall) All of the heights to all of these panels are the exact same as the rear side zone. But the middle panel section (Claret Accent GOM) will be one big single panel. I can't think of any way to divide it up to look right otherwise.

The rear right corner zone will vary from the rear left corner zone in that the rack unit protrudes into the room in this zone. In this case, the panels and trim that intersect with the unit will have to be custom cut to fit around it. At this time I have decided that I will not frame the unit with 2" trim, but instead have the existing panel and trim pattern come right up to the edges of the rack unit, with the face of the unit being flush with the trim section (1/4" recessed from the panels)

---
The final zone is the "Rear Middle". The depth and Height of this zone is identical to the rear corner zone, and the height is also the same as the rear side zone.

The width of this zone is 69". In this zone there will be 3 center panels which will be 23" wide each. Otherwise all measurements are the same.
post #317 of 2308
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbraden32 View Post

BIG and D,

What kind of RF Dimmers are those and why did you choose them over a Grafik Eye lighting solution or similar?

Also, how much difference is there in using the cotton on the front wall compared to lets say just 2 inches of OC703 material?

They are Leviton VRI06-1LZ Vizia RF Dimmers. http://www.smarthome.com/45071Z/Levi...-Almond/p.aspx

I also was able to get the black face plates for them for $1.87 each... Finding black RF dimmers is not an easy thing to do.
http://www.smarthome.com/86558BK/Lev...s-Black/p.aspx

I got them for $63 each when I ordered them. I got them because they are a lot cheaper than a Grafik Eye solution and they also worked with my existing logitech harmony. I don't plan on doing any complex lighting other than telling my harmony to "turn on or off this light when I hit movie" type of macros.

I couldn't give you statistics of why to use Cotton over the OC703 except that Bryan Pape said it is better. He has many years of experience in acoustical treatments, as well as been advising many people on AVS for years. If he says it is better, I believe him. The rear walls and bass traps will be OC703 but the front and sides are cotton.

The cotton is an awesome material. It feels cool, it sounds cool (just banging on it produces a nice soft thud), but it is a bitch to cut. OC703 is great for soundproofing, and it cuts WAY easier. I'm sure by the end of the project we will wish we just used it because custom-cutting it for every panel is going to drive us mad.
post #318 of 2308
The columns are looking really cool, nice job. 6 of them and each are hollowed out to hide a surround speaker right? So will 2 be empty or are you adding an additional set of speakers on top of 7.1?
post #319 of 2308
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nebrunner View Post

The columns are looking really cool, nice job. 6 of them and each are hollowed out to hide a surround speaker right? So will 2 be empty or are you adding an additional set of speakers on top of 7.1?

I'm impressed. I expected a comment on that much sooner! They will just be empty. We did it for uniformity. They will have cotton against the wall behind the grille.
post #320 of 2308
I'll be doing the same but one of mine blanks will hide the thermostat for the basement zone, and I'm thinking about sticking a fire extinguisher in the other one.
post #321 of 2308
Quote:
Originally Posted by nebrunner View Post

thinking about sticking a fire extinguisher in the other one.

^^Great idea
post #322 of 2308
Quote:
Originally Posted by damelon View Post

They are Leviton VRI06-1LZ Vizia RF Dimmers. http://www.smarthome.com/45071Z/Levi...-Almond/p.aspx

I also was able to get the black face plates for them for $1.87 each... Finding black RF dimmers is not an easy thing to do.
http://www.smarthome.com/86558BK/Lev...s-Black/p.aspx

I got them for $63 each when I ordered them. I got them because they are a lot cheaper than a Grafik Eye solution and they also worked with my existing logitech harmony. I don't plan on doing any complex lighting other than telling my harmony to "turn on or off this light when I hit movie" type of macros.

I couldn't give you statistics of why to use Cotton over the OC703 except that Bryan Pape said it is better. He has many years of experience in acoustical treatments, as well as been advising many people on AVS for years. If he says it is better, I believe him. The rear walls and bass traps will be OC703 but the front and sides are cotton.

The cotton is an awesome material. It feels cool, it sounds cool (just banging on it produces a nice soft thud), but it is a bitch to cut. OC703 is great for soundproofing, and it cuts WAY easier. I'm sure by the end of the project we will wish we just used it because custom-cutting it for every panel is going to drive us mad.

So you are using cotton on entire front wall and bottom half of sides walls, oc703 on back wall and corner traps. Anything on top sidewalls? What kind of price was the cotton compared to the oc703.
post #323 of 2308
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbraden32 View Post

So you are using cotton on entire front wall and bottom half of sides walls, oc703 on back wall and corner traps. Anything on top sidewalls? What kind of price was the cotton compared to the oc703.

Not exactly. Up to the riser, it is floor to ceiling 1" cotton on the side walls. From the riser back, only half the height to the ceiling in 1" cotton on the side walls. oc703 on the back wall.

Price Breakdown:

2" OC703 $12.50 24 $300.00
2" Cotton $25.00 19 $475.00
1" Cotton $15.50 39 $604.50

I also had 6 sheets of OC703 2" from my previous build, so I used them for part of the bass-trap filler. I actually had some 2" cotton leftover as well.
post #324 of 2308
Thread Starter 
Wall Trim Question. Here is a sample mock-up of the general wall-layout, courtesy of Sandman/Ruben/SMX's thread. In this pic you see chair rail trim and baseboard trim, but no trim above the center panels. So I would like to know from all of you:

1) Keep the trim as it is in the photo
2) Add trim above the red center panel as well to match the chair rail trim. (Which is what my measurements in previous posts are based off of)
3) Remove the chair rail trim and keep just the baseboard trim
4) Remove ALL trim and use just panels.

I am pretty sure I have ruled out number 4, but I'm having a hard time deciding from the others.



Here is another example with only some baseboard trim (#3 choice above)
post #325 of 2308
Quote:
Originally Posted by damelon View Post


I got them for $63 each when I ordered them. I got them because they are a lot cheaper than a Grafik Eye solution and they also worked with my existing logitech harmony. I don't plan on doing any complex lighting other than telling my harmony to "turn on or off this light when I hit movie" type of macros.

Which Harmony remote do you have? I thought that Logitech dropped support for z-wave devices. Thanks.
post #326 of 2308
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcazretsof View Post

Which Harmony remote do you have? I thought that Logitech dropped support for z-wave devices. Thanks.

I have an old Harmony 890 from my wife's house and I also have the Monster AVL300 from my other house which is just sitting there in that old theater. I could use either one really. I know they are both probably not very good compared to what I could buy otherwise, but they will do the job for now.
post #327 of 2308
on the wall trim I think it is more about how the red paint works with the fabric.

Take a couple of long pieces of 2 inch and paint them the red. Then take your bolts of fabric to a clean space and unroll a little red and a little black, fold the red in half and lay the trim down as they would be separating the black and red. Take a look with and without.

I bet it will make up your mind.
post #328 of 2308
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

it is more about how the red paint works with the fabric.

I agree. Based on the pictures, I'm not a big fan of how the red paint works in the middle. It could easily be better in person, but it's not for me based on what I see here.
post #329 of 2308
Thread Starter 
Sounds like a plan. I am going to go touch up the primer on the columns now anyway so I can prime a piece or 2 of 2" MDF I've got down there.
post #330 of 2308
For what its worth I really like the first picture of the red/black with all the trim. It looks quite classy. On another note great build thus far gentlemen, keep up the good work.
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