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Upgrade from Xantech to Crestron help?

post #1 of 7
7/29/11 at 12:29pm
Thread Starter 
Why does it seem that major system upgrades always come from a minor component replacement and resulting compatibility issues. For me, it was installing a Sim2 C3X Lumis projector in the theater that uses toggle-bit IR commands that are incompatible with Xantech Dragon Drop software and remotes, and installing two new Lexicon DD-8 multizone amps which sense some type of output from the Xantech ZPR6810 and won't turn some zones off (so the ZPR has to go back for expensive repair). In any case, it looks like we're heading for a full upgrade of: 1) Our home A/V distribution system, including remotes and in-wall controls. And 2) Our theater control system.

I'm leaning toward Crestron because it's state of the art (the Xantech ZPR6810 is 15-year old technology), and because I have a good local dealer/installer.
Here are the basics:
  • A/V Switcher: 6 inputs/ 15 zone outputs (8 audio, 7 audio+video)
  • Distribution Amp: 2 Lexicon DD-8's (8 zones)
  • Zone Wall Controls: 8x single-gang (Cat5 wired)
  • Zone Remotes: 7x
And here are the issues I'm hoping someone will take a couple moments and help me with so I can struggle to get a handle around all this:
A/V Distribution Questions:
  • What was nice about the ZPR is that it distributed audio+composite video to 15 zones. It looks like this has to be done with multiple components in Crestron. If that's right, what switching components will we likely need?
  • Are the Crestron CNX-B12 the most logical replacement for the Xantech in-wall controls if we need single-gang and don't watch touchscreen?
  • If we use RF zone remotes, then we also need to send IR from the Crestron switching components back to the individual zones. What does that require.
Zone Remotes:
  • I'm really struggling between the URC MX980 and new Crestron MLX 3. I really like the backlit buttons of the MLX3 and not needing a charging base, but don't like having to send IR signals back to each individual zone to control local components like the TV and DVD. Is there a preference of one over the other from a software programming standpoint?
  • I really don't like the concept of having rechargeable remotes in every zone (MX98) because they are always left off the base. Are there any other software programmable remotes that I should be looking at?
Theater Question:
If we want to control the Sim2 projector, Lexicon processor, and Crestron A/V switching by RS232, what Crestron product(s) are needed.

Crestron Software Questions:
  • What software would be used to program the A/V switching, CNX wall switches, and MLX3 or URC MX980 remotes?
  • My Biggest Concern is that up until now, I've done all the programming and installation of the Xantech A/V distribution and controls, as well as the theater remote. I don't want the hassle of installing an entirely new system, but I don't want to be totally dependent on some installer who might not be around in 5 years. He has offered to provide me with the software, system programming, and some basic instruction once the project is completed. That way I'll be able to make minor changes like switching out a DVD player to a different brand. Does that sound reasonable with Crestron, if I am generally proficient with computers and Xantech DragonDrop programming (from our previous system)?
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post #2 of 7
7/29/11 at 1:31pm
Because you're an engineer, and have some programming experience, maybe a Crestron dealer will offer to design a Crestron system for you - for a reasonable fee, of course. The devices could be sourced from that dealer. And, programming could be provided by that dealer, or through a third party CAIP.

This is very unconventional, and would be a lot of work. I think you're better off hiring that local Crestron installer, with the caveat/clause that the uncompiled programming code will be provided to you at the completion of the install. That way, another company could pick up the job if the original installation company disappears.

I don't know if you've exhausted local Control4 and Elan g! options.

Your 'minor' Sim2 upgrade caused a problem because you weren't aware of the DragonDrop apparent incompatibility problem. I would think a control revision - replace DragonDrop with URC Total Control, RTI, C4, or Elan g! would be much cheaper than replacing switches, amps, and control and installing Crestron.

I'm surprised your local installer doesn't offer an alternative to Crestron. You're floundering because a local installer hasn't told you the best way to solve your problems. Maybe a couple more meetings - some more time with this local Crestron installer - will help steer you in the right direction. There is no reason for you to have any questions if you've found a great local installer.

FWIW, I don't think you would be happy with DIY Crestron. If you want to buy a new component, pick up the phone and call the installer for installation. You don't want to mess around with the Crestron sw, you want to spend your time enjoying your system. Zero frustration, no headaches.
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post #3 of 7
7/29/11 at 6:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBS View Post

Crestron Software Questions:
  • What software would be used to program the A/V switching, CNX wall switches, and MLX3 or URC MX980 remotes?
  • My Biggest Concern is that up until now, I’ve done all the programming and installation of the Xantech A/V distribution and controls, as well as the theater remote. I don’t want the hassle of installing an entirely new system, but I don’t want to be totally dependent on some installer who might not be around in 5 years. He has offered to provide me with the software, system programming, and some basic instruction once the project is completed. That way I’ll be able to make minor changes like switching out a DVD player to a different brand. Does that sound reasonable with Crestron, if I am generally proficient with computers and Xantech DragonDrop programming (from our previous system)?

Crestron Certified programmers can sell you the program after it is complete but you will have to negotiate that before hand and it will most likely cost you more for it. Programmers do not like to do this as it protects their programming because it takes a lot of time a nd money to become Crestron Certified.
But, if you are not a Crestron programmer, you will have no idea what the coding means nor will you get the software needed to do changes as you need to be a Crestron programmer or dealer to get the software.

Try looking at Savant for your needs as the software is a little easier to obtain and the programming is drag and drop for the most part.
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post #4 of 7
7/31/11 at 6:02pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifor View Post
Crestron Certified programmers can sell you the program after it is complete but you will have to negotiate that before hand and it will most likely cost you more for it. Programmers do not like to do this as it protects their programming because it takes a lot of time a nd money to become Crestron Certified. But, if you are not a Crestron programmer, you will have no idea what the coding means nor will you get the software needed to do changes as you need to be a Crestron pregrammer or dealer to get the software.
My problem is that I must find a replacement for my Xantech A/V zone distribution system, wall controls, and zone remote controls that meets this criteria:
  • A/V Switcher: 6 inputs/ 15 zone outputs (8 audio, 7 a/v).
  • The 8 RCA audio outputs connect through 2 Lexicon DD-8 multi-zone amps to speakers in the different zones, and are controlled by wall controls in each zones.
  • The 7 a/v outputs are RCA w/composite video run to TVs in the different zones and controlled by a handheld remote in each zone. I would like to go from IR to combined IR/RF capability with these remotes if possible.
It's easy to find computer-programmable remotes that are better replacements for the Xantech URC2 (Universal Remote MX900 or MX980, Crestron MLX3 or Logitech harmony 900). But as old as the Xantech ZPR6810 techology is (15yrs!), I'm not finding many competitive replacements other than Crestron. And I don't want to kludge together components from multiple vendors. However, I ALSO don't want to become Crestron certified.

So my hope was to work closely with my local Crestron dealer/installer and also get a copy of the source code (and programming software) when the project is completed. As an engineer, I was hoping to be able to make minor changes -particularly on the zone remotes as needed in the future (i.e. when a component is replaced).

If that does not sound feasible, then the next best alternative might be to only have the A/V Distribution and wall controls done with Crestron equipment. And then to use URC remotes (MX980 or 900) for the zones since that software seem more easily obtainable and learnable.

Thoughts?
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post #5 of 7
8/1/11 at 12:01am
Well, if you want to go Crestron, then you will need a CNX-PAD8 for the audio, a CNX-PVID8X3 for the video, a controller like a CP2E and multiple CNRFGWA-418 gateways for control thru the house. You can use different remotes other than crestron but I really like the ML-600 remote as it takes regular batteries.
I would suggest the Cameo C2N-CBD-P keypads as they are auto dimming backlit and can be arranged in almost any way as well as the buttons can be toggled.

But, talk to your local Crestron designer/programmer for this.
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post #6 of 7
8/1/11 at 8:45am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifor View Post

Well, if you want to go Crestron, then you will need a CNX-PAD8 for the audio, a CNX-PVID8X3 for the video, a controller like a CP2E and multiple CNRFGWA-418 gateways for control thru the house. You can use different remotes other than crestron but I really like the ML-600 remote as it takes regular batteries. I would suggest the Cameo C2N-CBD-P keypads as they are auto dimming backlite and can be arranged in almost any way as well as the buttons can be toggled.

Thanks for the list of Crestron equipment (it's kind of what I thought).

What is the major difference between the CNX-B12 and the C2N-CBD-P... primarily the backlit (but fewer) buttons on the C2N?

If I went with URC remotes (MX900 or 980), I'm not sure how the MSC400 interfaces with the CNRFGWA-418, but I imagine any Crestron installer knows. I just need to be capable of changing programming for the 7 zone remotes -- and from what I've read, the Universal Remote software is more user-friendly (and available) for the tech-savvy homeowner.
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post #7 of 7
8/1/11 at 4:11pm
The CNX keypads are not backlite and are a larger, non-standard version of the decora faceplate. All parts of the plate are more expensive and can only be gotten from Crestron. While the C2N kaypads are of the standard decora size and the plates can be found anywhere.

You can use the URC remotes as they operate at the 433MHz RF frequency but you will need to substitute the CNRFGWA-418 gateway for the CNRFGWA gateway which operates at the 433MHz frequency which the URC remotes operate. You do not need the MSC400 units.
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