Originally Posted by dragonfyr
It died as there are not enough familiar with what the response represents as well as not enough folks who could use Google fast enough to find sufficient out of context statements in order to sustain the nonsense.
When the Experts disagree, it's like Mommy and Daddy fighting. There's a cloud in the house.
When the teachers trying to teach 4th grade concepts also pedantically hold students accountable to 8th grade standards, and strike down from an ivory tower with finger of god force, it gets tough to learn. We've seen that here.
Being an expert on something doesn't automatically make one a good teacher.
Despite the moaning about the fractious recalcitrant AVS users, I see arguing and dissent and repetition at GearSlutz forums too.
Although it looks like AJ has an agenda, I don't begrudge his looking for examples of relating perceptual quality improvements to treatment. I don't think Nyal's pointing to a paragraph explaining the precedence effect helped. And I understand people looking for more examples of ETC in a real room, relating the measurements to how the room initially didn't follow a given model, how the problem surfaces were found, what was done to treat them, what the ETC looked like afterwards (which should follow the model), and how the new conformance to the model was qualitatively & perceptually then enjoyed by all.
On the other hand, I understand the Experts' frustration with students not trying this stuff out on their own rather than arguing so much. It's true, that many people have spent a lot of hours talking and thousands of dollars on other aspects of a theater's sound. So it suggests that a few tens of hours and a few hundred dollars are easily affordable.
Personally, I'd reinforce the utility in performing measurements in one's home. It has helped to make it all "real" and tie concepts together for me.
It was edifying for me to look at the ETC, remove some panels and see that they weren't doing much. Then put those panels in other areas I hadn't gotten around to treating yet, and seeing a dramatic removal of a reflection. Then removing ceiling tiles and putting blankets (which I felt should use band-limited high frequency ETC because blankets aren't 4" thick insulation) or insulation up there.
I struggled mightily with one reflection that I couldn't find. Using the blocking method on a center speaker, I had to bound the left and right of the speaker with 2' x 4' panels to kill the reflection. Move the panels out farther and farther, and the reflection would appear. Move a panel in front of stuff that I thought might be reflecting, no joy. Then, even though I was by myself, I rigged a sloppy string method setup. Low and behold, I traced the reflection to my surround speakers (Paradigm ADP-170) that stick out of the wall as trapezoids. The front and bottom of the speaker was reflecting. I was surprised that one to two square feet would make that big of a reflection (I was trying to get the reflections down 15dB under the direct signal).
Just like other things in life, practical example and practice is part of the education process.
I've also read the Toole book, the Alton Everest book, and the freely available pages of the Acoustic Absorbers & Diffusors book referenced here.