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Future of pdp is grimm? - Page 2  

post #31 of 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by calvin35 View Post

I trend to agree with you. I own a 101fd and before that a Fujitsu plasma, however my next panel will probably be a local dimming LED. None of the remaining plasma companies seem to be all that interested in pushing the envelope. The VT30 is basically the same tv as the VT25 and the same can be said for the Samsungs. It sucks because plasma technology has so much potential and still has room to improve.

To be fair LCD is trying to emulate plasma so they have a visible target PQ to reach.

Secondly the cost of improving the PQ using inherent plasma technology is marginal except for videophiles. Think Kuro and 2011 plasmas. Does J6P really know the difference? But there is big PERCEIVABLE difference in LED (though with local dimming and better contrast through reflective glass) and CCFL LCD.

Last but not least plasma investment has dwindled as mass market still prefers LCD's bright and vibrant colors.
post #32 of 398
How do you "figure" that the "general market" prefers LCD?

In sales numbers last year, LG sold more(if you include only competing sizes) plasma than they sold LCD. Of course, Panasonic also sold more plasma than LCD.

Samsung(if they would treat plasma like it mattered, instead of an afterthought) would probably close its own gap in sales.

Last years LG 42PJ350, almost by itself, sold as many units as ALL of LG's 46" and bigger LCD's...

In 42" and bigger, plasma still reigns supreme. Panasonic was tempted to bring back a 32" plasma. They'd probably be able to sell droves of them if they priced it equal to a basic 32" 720P LCD.

The sales figures for Zenith/Insignia/Sanyo aren't included with their "main" counterpart(the jury is still out if Sanyo really counts for Panasonic, some people say it doesn't...others say it does).

But, to EQUAL sales of LCD to plasma for LG you have to include their 40", 37" and 32". Plasma gave up up on "small sets" because 50" anymore is almost the average size.
post #33 of 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by schan1269 View Post

How do you "figure" that the "general market" prefers LCD?

In sales numbers last year, LG sold more(if you include only competing sizes) plasma than they sold LCD. Of course, Panasonic also sold more plasma than LCD.

Samsung(if they would treat plasma like it mattered, instead of an afterthought) would probably close its own gap in sales.

Last years LG 42PJ350, almost by itself, sold as many units as ALL of LG's 46" and bigger LCD's...

In 42" and bigger, plasma still reigns supreme. Panasonic was tempted to bring back a 32" plasma. They'd probably be able to sell droves of them if they priced it equal to a basic 32" 720P LCD.

The sales figures for Zenith/Insignia/Sanyo aren't included with their "main" counterpart(the jury is still out if Sanyo really counts for Panasonic, some people say it doesn't...others say it does).

But, to EQUAL sales of LCD to plasma for LG you have to include their 40", 37" and 32". Plasma gave up up on "small sets" because 50" anymore is almost the average size.

Except panasonic every other manufacturer lcd outsell plasma,i would like to see the source where it says lg plasma sold more then their lcd.

2010 data
post #34 of 398
Apparently you don't follow sales trends. Above 42", LCD has YET to catch plasma. Over 60", DLP sells more then LCD does(granted that is a skewed statistic).

In China(you know that "emerging market"), plasma is selling at a 60% clip, with LCD and projector fighting over the other 40%.

I think North America is the only place DLP RPT is still sold(maybe Europe???).
post #35 of 398
Are you saying between 42-50" LCD has yet to catch plasma? >=50" it is possible that plasma still reigns but you are cherry picking your statistics.

Plasma failed at 37" remember? Where did you see panny considering making 32" plasma nowadays? (that was like 2 years back when they also tried to make matte plasma) Do you know that it is actually more expensive for plasma to make smaller size due to the plasma cell structure?

In China, growth is from LCD, albeit small ones at around 32". And LGE sold more plasma than LCD? Your statistics amaze me. Care to quote a source? Panny is primarily a plasma advocate but in terms of sales LCD already exceed plasma after just 2 years IIRC

But nothing amaze me more than you manage to clock 2500 posts in 4 months Though I am a plasma owner, I'm not a blind fanboy.
post #36 of 398
Hi All,

Yesterday, I read reports that sadly, Hitachi pulled out of the TV Manufacturing business & perhaps of possible interest (concern?) to us in the Plasma camp:

"Panasonic President Fumio Ohtsubo has announced the company will be making no new investments in its TV business, and that it’s working on a plan to re-invent its TV operations."

That is a pretty serious statement by any standards & by Japanese ones it pretty much means something like "We are in seriously deep shiite"!

With the way things are economically & with the uncertainty in the markets, stiff competition in the industry, high investment costs & very low profits, I understand why he may be forced to try to change strategy but I do fear that this may push quality & standards spiralling downwards in favour to shift lower tier models in mass whilst crippling R&D & limiting innovation in the higher end of things.

Thoughts anyone? As Panasonic is the Sole champion of Plasma & it's main proponent, I am wondering if they will just call it a day on any further R&D on Plasma & feel that current standards are sufficiently good enough to sustain them for the next few years? It would make sense as the law of diminishing marginal returns probably set in some time ago in relation to their buisness model.

It looks like we can kiss goodbye to any chance of a Panasonic Kuro now - all those Pioneer Patents & Kuro Tech they bought & never utilised looks like it may be going to their museum now or (perish the thought!) they might sell to Sharp seeing as they have just launched "Elite LCD's"!! Well folks, it looks like if you want the next evolution of a Pioneer/Kuro and/or the next best evolution in HDTV PQ, then it will probably most likely be an LCD!!! How freaking ironic = don't be too sad, we get an extra yellow pixel thrown in to the bargain!

http://www.whathifi.com/news/japan-h...wooo-customers

Bazzy!
post #37 of 398
Yesterday's Sharp/Pioneer anouncment is an interesting read about their new "Elite" model. see

http://www.twice.com/article/472001-...CD_TV_Line.php
post #38 of 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by schan1269 View Post

Apparently you don't follow sales trends. Above 42", LCD has YET to catch plasma. Over 60", DLP sells more then LCD does(granted that is a skewed statistic).

In China(you know that "emerging market"), plasma is selling at a 60% clip, with LCD and projector fighting over the other 40%.

I think North America is the only place DLP RPT is still sold(maybe Europe???).

Do you know how many lcd manufactures are there in china, brands that most people here haven't heard .In china plasma are at the bottom pack in sales.

Show me the source for your claims.
post #39 of 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

Yesterday's Sharp/Pioneer anouncment is an interesting read about their new "Elite" model. see

http://www.twice.com/article/472001-...CD_TV_Line.php


I'm going to run out and buy one as soon as they're released!


Quote:


Do you know how many lcd manufactures are there in china, brands that most people here haven't heard .In china plasma are at the bottom pack in sales. Show me the source for your claims.






Ian
post #40 of 398
My question about a Kuro killer is this: would the motion picture industry think it detrimental if Kuro killers were produced that were so good that people QUIT going to the movies because the picture quality at the theaters was so lousy?
post #41 of 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

My question about a Kuro killer is this: would the motion picture industry think it detrimental if Kuro killers were produced that were so good that people QUIT going to the movies because the picture quality at the theaters was so lousy?

I doubt it. Many can't even wait 1-2 weeks before rushing out to see the latest release, let along 6 months.
post #42 of 398
And Bose is the largest speaker manufacturer. Sales figures don't equal quality. There is still a preference issue that can't be solved by arguing one's own favorite technology sales figures.
post #43 of 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve S View Post

Oh goody! we were due for another "death of plasma" thread.

PDP had its day. There's always something better coming.
post #44 of 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

My question about a Kuro killer is this: would the motion picture industry think it detrimental if Kuro killers were produced that were so good that people QUIT going to the movies because the picture quality at the theaters was so lousy?

Kuro killer
post #45 of 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

Kuro killer

implies there doesn't need to be a kuro killer; Audi likes to trumpet the pitfalls of plasma in general as weaknesses of the kuro but doesn't (and hasn't for a couple years now) been able to point to a model (lcd or otherwise) that has bested it in the combined areas of blacks, shadow detail, gamma, color accuracy, etc..
post #46 of 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by ll Viper ll; View Post

implies there doesn't need to be a kuro killer; Audi likes to trumpet the pitfalls of plasma in general as weaknesses of the kuro but doesn't (and hasn't for a couple years now) been able to point to a model (lcd or otherwise) that has bested it in the combined areas of blacks, shadow detail, gamma, color accuracy, etc..

1) Outside the darkroom kuro has been surpassed by LCd's and Plasma's.
2) Only when size matters kuro is king in the dark _ OLED is king
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.p...&id=1289487180


EL9500 OLED PICK
post #47 of 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post

1) Outside the darkroom kuro has been surpassed by LCd's and Plasma's.
2) Only when size matters kuro is king in the dark _ OLED is king
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.p...&id=1289487180


EL9500 OLED PICK

1) More like light controlled
2) And size DOES matter, c'mon now
post #48 of 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by ll Viper ll; View Post

1) More like light controlled

What do you mean by that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ll Viper ll View Post

And size DOES matter, c'mon now

If you are consistent in your logic < size is more important then PQ > you would choose a 70 inch LED over a 60inch kuro since size DOES matter.
post #49 of 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

What if a Kuro killer looked so good that people stayed home and watched it instead of going to the movies?

I went yesterday to the movies and the projection quality was far far worse than what my Marantz VP15s1 can acheive at home.
Even my wife noticed it, and that mean a lot....
post #50 of 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post

What do you mean by that?

If you are consistent in your logic < size is more important then PQ > you would choose a 70 inch LED over a 60inch kuro since size DOES matter.


15 in vs 60 in or

60 in vs 70 in

yep, sounds like a valid comparison to me

and as far as lighting goes, as long as sunlight isn't streaming through a large bay window or something, the kuro will at LEAST tie
post #51 of 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post

1) Outside the darkroom kuro has been surpassed by LCd's and Plasma's.
2) Only when size matters kuro is king in the dark _ OLED is king
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.p...&id=1289487180


EL9500 OLED PICK

yeah, well if oled is so good, whatsup with the defective display allowing
those 2 white lights onto the blackscreen, lol
post #52 of 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by ll Viper ll;
15 in vs 60 in or

60 in vs 70 in

yep, sounds like a valid comparison to me
You are right about that, Nevertheless, a OLED outperformes anything out there.
post #53 of 398
BTW, Kuro Killer, I thought the Kuro was killed two years ago when Pioneer decided to not make them any more.
post #54 of 398
It's entertaining to watch the plasma naysayers predict the tech's death year after year, and year after year companies keep producing and selling new plasma models. Some of the most ardent are fanboys of competitive techs, or (even more entertaining) vaporware that hasn't and won't ever see the light of day. Talk about a penchant for living in a fantasy world

In the meantime I'll continue to enjoy my very real and very superior 9G Kuros.
post #55 of 398
Sharp doesn't need to make a Kuro killer, all that's necessary is a Samsung killer.
post #56 of 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve S View Post

Sharp doesn't need to make a Kuro killer, all that's necessary is a Samsung killer.



I'll drink to that!



Cheers!


Ian
post #57 of 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post

You are right about that, Nevertheless, a OLED outperformes anything out there.

I don't even know anybody who has seen an oled tv.
post #58 of 398
LG 15' EL9500: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...SIN=B003CJWTIM


http://oledbuyingguide.com/

Quote:
Originally Posted by mb1756; View Post

I don't even know anybody who has seen an oled tv.


Sony 11XEL 1 TV: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-XEL-1-W.../dp/B0018RRUL6

LG 15EL9500 TV:http://www.lg.com/uk/tv-audio-video/...v-15EL9500.jsp

25' OLED monitor: http://www.sony.nl/biz/lang/en/nl/product/bvm/pvm-2541


--> here is a OLED thread, 2500 posts, 450.000 views
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=681125
post #59 of 398

Still doesn't change what I said, I don't even know anyone who has seen an oled tv. There certainly aren't any down at my local Best Buy store.
post #60 of 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by mb1756 View Post

I don't even know anybody who has seen an oled tv.

All you need to do is go by a Sony store.
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