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Theater Build: Mike's Money Pit - Page 3

post #61 of 171
11/15/11 at 11:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by HFGuy View Post

I figure by the time I have the house and can afford the gear I want ill be a guru

By the time I have the house and can afford the gear I want, I'll be a corpse.
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post #62 of 171
11/15/11 at 11:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

By the time I have the house and can afford the gear I want, I'll be a corpse.


Unfortunately over the last year I think I have developed tinnitus or something (i still have to book an appointment to have a hearing test). My family doc doesnt think its the case but its very disheartening to not be able to enjoy audio. Basically I develop a headache if I listen to audio for any amount of time at any volume I guess Ill have to spend more money on the video side of HT.
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post #63 of 171
11/15/11 at 11:53am
Thread Starter 
LastButNotLeast: Not to worry. By the time my theater is finished, I won't be able to afford the house, or the gear, and I may well be a corpse.

HFGuy: Get it looked at ASAP, and good luck! Hopefully there's something that can be done. Doesn't sound like tinnitus from what you've described, unless you also have ringing in your ears.
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post #64 of 171
11/15/11 at 1:11pm
No ringing, but sometimes I hear alot of white noise. Doctor doesn't think its tinnitus because its both ears equally. It's strange it comes and goes. Just like any man i am scared to go to the doc and will just assume it will magically cure itself all on its own
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post #65 of 171
11/15/11 at 1:31pm
Temp OT: Tinnitus can sound like lots of things, white noise included. And yes you often get it appearing to sound in both ears (as is the case for my Tinnitus). It does seem to come and go depending on the environment, stress, what you've eaten, your attention etc.

It does go away for some people though.
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post #66 of 171
11/15/11 at 2:54pm
Thread Starter 
Well, good luck indeed! It would be a very bad day indeed for me to put all the work into an ultra-quiet music playback environment, only to end up with ringing in the ears! I play live music too, and I'm very careful about hearing protection since that's one possible cause. My dad had atherosclerosis-induced tinnitus, which was a real bummer.
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post #67 of 171
11/16/11 at 10:59am
Mike,

How are you mounting, padding, insulating these in-wall subs to reduce or eliminate transmitting LFE throughout your home?

I'm currently doing research to select my sub and would consider using 1 or 2 of these for balance.

Thanks,
Cory
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post #68 of 171
11/16/11 at 11:04am
Thread Starter 
Honestly, I'm doing very little to try to isolate them. The reality of my house is that there was no practical way to properly isolate the theater from the rest of the building, particularly regarding the isolation between the downstairs theater and the upstairs living room.

I am single, though, so besides the cats, there's nobody in the house to be disturbed by sound leaking from the theater.

So, the focus has been on minimizing sound intrusion from outdoors (which also helps to minimize sound leaking to the outside, although my neighbors are not situated close enough for that to be an issue, I think). When the theater is rocking, there will be no doubt about it upstairs.
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post #69 of 171
11/16/11 at 11:52am
On the subject of sound isolation (both ways) on one hand the common wisdom does make sense: If you are spending a lot of money on a home theater room, sound isolation is an important criteria to consider, both for not disturbing the rest of the house and for cutting down intrusion into the viewing/listening experience in the room.

Along those lines, once you start looking at the concept of sound insulation you'll come across some daunting information: just how much diligence it seems to require to achieve sound isolation (floating floors, decoupled walls, you name it). You'll also hear how sound easily transfers through the tiniest openings and through various materials.

It can almost be enough to make one lose hope - either you go whole hog and commit to all the techniques at the risk of sabotaging the effort by skimping in one or a few areas...or...to hell with it...I can't do all of that...I'll have to live with a non-isolated theater.

I couldn't fully isolate my main floor living room - it has no door and has instead a wide, pillared opening to the front hallway. I did however do a fair amount of acoustic work in the room in terms of combating room reflections etc.

All I have is a large, fairly thick velvet curtain that pulls across the opening of the room.
And yet, it does wonders in terms of it's overall impact. The sound coming out of the room is well reduced and doesn't bother the rest of the house. And within the room, activity in the rest of the house goes between inaudible and rarely noticeable (even when the kids are home). So for the mere expense of a velvet curtain, I have pretty much all the sound isolation I've needed to keep the viewing experience I want.

FWIW...

I'm sure your place will work out great, JustMike.
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post #70 of 171
11/16/11 at 12:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

The sound coming out of the room is well reduced and doesn't bother the rest of the house. And within the room, activity in the rest of the house goes between inaudible and rarely noticeable (even when the kids are home). So for the mere expense of a velvet curtain, I have pretty much all the sound isolation I've needed to keep the viewing experience I want.

A very reasonable perspective from someone who's theater epitomizes the art of integrated high performance.
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post #71 of 171
11/16/11 at 1:02pm
Thread Starter 
Indeed, thanks Rich!

In my case, the theater's walls are all very well insulated and sheathed in multiple layers of materials, so I expect there to be little to no sound intrusion through the walls. The door between the theater and the equipment room will weigh several hundred pounds as well, and that wall has extra insulation and deadening treatments.

The problem was with the ceiling. With only 8' of headroom, and with the need for acoustical treatment of the ceiling and HVAC ductwork, there was no practical way to isolate between the two living floors. So, there we made the tradeoff.

I do appreciate your point about the curtain. The one big opportunity for sound intrusion into the theater from the street is the picture window in the back of the room. Perhaps I'll beef up that drapery.
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post #72 of 171
11/17/11 at 8:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustMike View Post

The door between the theater and the equipment room will weigh several hundred pounds as well

Brings new meaning to the saying don't let the door hit you on the way out
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post #73 of 171
11/17/11 at 9:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by HFGuy View Post

Brings new meaning to the saying don't let the door hit you on the way out

And watch out for kitty tails.

"Do you know why cats in Espanola walk around with their tails up in the air?"
"So everyone can see their Toney Anaya button"

Sorry, couldn't resist. That probably only makes sense if you have driven through Espanola.
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post #74 of 171
11/17/11 at 10:15am
Thread Starter 
I should correct myself. It will weigh over 100 pounds, but probably not more than 200. It would still hurt to get hit in the butt with it.

And good point about the kitties! No self-closers on the doors, so there shouldn't be much risk of that.
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post #75 of 171
11/20/11 at 8:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustMike View Post

The problem was with the ceiling. With only 8' of headroom, and with the need for acoustical treatment of the ceiling and HVAC ductwork, there was no practical way to isolate between the two living floors. So, there we made the tradeoff.

So work UP from the upstairs floor.
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post #76 of 171
11/20/11 at 12:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustMike View Post

I am single, though, so besides the cats, there's nobody in the house to be disturbed by sound leaking from the theater.

That helps with a lot of the OTHER decisions, too.
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post #77 of 171
11/29/11 at 9:17pm
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post #78 of 171
11/29/11 at 11:10pm
Thread Starter 
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post #79 of 171
11/30/11 at 10:39am
Mike,

Hope everything is going well for you.

You're really leaving us hanging here man. I'm not sure your living up to the posting standard you set early on. Let's see some more excavation photos or something, pal.



Cory
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post #80 of 171
11/30/11 at 11:01am
Thread Starter 
Yeah, sorry about that. Unfortunately the renovation of the rest of the house has been blocking some of the work in the theater, so not much has happened lately.

I do want to do the posting soon about the screen masking plans, though, and I can do a mini construction update covering the prep for the fabric walls.

Hopefully soon!
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post #81 of 171
12/14/11 at 10:39am
Thread Starter 
Just a micro update, as I've been swamped with other things and work on the theater is pretty much stalled while we wrap up the kitchen. But, next week the tile floor goes into the kitchenette/bath, and then we can permanently set the racks and start populating and wiring them.

Right on cue, Santa came a little early:

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post #82 of 171
12/14/11 at 11:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustMike View Post

Just a micro update, as I've been swamped with other things and work on the theater is pretty much stalled while we wrap up the kitchen. But, next week the tile floor goes into the kitchenette/bath, ...

Some of us wouldn't mind seeing the kitchen and bath pictures... Post ON!!!
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post #83 of 171
12/17/11 at 1:02pm
Hey Mike!

I'm also about to build a Keith Yates designed theater! I just signed the building permit friday. Are you using an Uber sub?

What NC level did you aim for in the design?

Can't wait to see more pics
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post #84 of 171
12/17/11 at 1:30pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyleh215 View Post

Hey Mike!

I'm also about to build a Keith Yates designed theater! I just signed the building permit friday. Are you using an Uber sub?

What NC level did you aim for in the design?

Can't wait to see more pics

Awesome!! You are about to have some fun!

We are using seven subs, as described in one of my postings in this thread. We talked about doing a custom sub, but in the end this made the most sense given the analysis of the room.

Because of some of the constraints with the room's height and soundproofing, we are aiming for NC15. Any lower was unrealistic. NC15 will be a challenge with the projector in the room, too, but I'm optimistic for music.
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post #85 of 171
12/17/11 at 6:21pm
We've been designing it for over 9 months now. I'm super excited. Aiming for NC12. When are you aiming to be completed?

The BOSS is awesome! We got configured for 9 subs

Maybe I should start a thread
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post #86 of 171
12/17/11 at 7:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyleh215 View Post

We've been designing it for over 9 months now. I'm super excited. Aiming for NC12. When are you aiming to be completed?

The BOSS is awesome! We got configured for 9 subs

Maybe I should start a thread

Please do.
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post #87 of 171
12/30/11 at 9:01am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyleh215 View Post

Maybe I should start a thread

Indeed! Please start a thread! I'd love to follow your build.

I will be posting some construction update photos today or over the weekend. Not much to report in the theater room proper, I'm sorry to say, as the rest of the house is still occupying the cabinet maker's time, and we need him to build the custom acoustically treated bookcases up front.
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post #88 of 171
1/3/12 at 12:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustMike View Post

Indeed, thanks Rich!

In my case, the theater's walls are all very well insulated and sheathed in multiple layers of materials, so I expect there to be little to no sound intrusion through the walls. The door between the theater and the equipment room will weigh several hundred pounds as well, and that wall has extra insulation and deadening treatments.

The problem was with the ceiling. With only 8' of headroom, and with the need for acoustical treatment of the ceiling and HVAC ductwork, there was no practical way to isolate between the two living floors. So, there we made the tradeoff.

I do appreciate your point about the curtain. The one big opportunity for sound intrusion into the theater from the street is the picture window in the back of the room. Perhaps I'll beef up that drapery.

Interesting read Mike. Why did you feel 8' headroom was too low for sound isolation? With clips and 2 layers of 5/8" drywall (GG) wouldn't you only lose a couple of inches?
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post #89 of 171
1/3/12 at 12:43pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 235 View Post

Interesting read Mike. Why did you feel 8' headroom was too low for sound isolation? With clips and 2 layers of 5/8" drywall (GG) wouldn't you only lose a couple of inches?

Ah! Great question -- yes, that's not immediately obvious.

The issue is having the headroom to do the acoustical treatment of the ceiling. If we were going to go with clips and double drywall, we'd have to do that starting from the 8' level and, as you note, we'd lose a couple of inches. But, then we'd have an additional 4" of acoustics over that, then the stretched fabric, and we'd end up with a ceiling that was probably 7'6" or less, which I really felt was going to feel pretty darned low.

What KYDG designed instead was an acoustical treatment plan where all the materials are actually recessed into the joists in the ceiling. The ceiling joists, since they're the floor joists for the level above, are 2x12 (really, about 10.5" deep). With the under-floor radiant and the spray foam insulation in those cavities, we still had about 6" of room available.

So, we covered the foam insulation with a layer of plywood and a layer of drywall affixed to cleats fastened to the sides of the joists. (This was necessary because the foam has to be protected in case of fire, plus it gives us something to fasten the acoustics to.) That left us with about 4.5" of available space in the joist bays -- perfect for the acoustical treatments, the recessed lights, and the 3 ceiling-mounted subwoofers.

Once the stretched fabric goes up, we'll still have an 8' ceiling, but it will be fully acoustically treated. Since I don't have to worry about anybody walking around upstairs while a movie is on, this was the solution that gave the best acoustical performance in the room and also made it feel the most livable.
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post #90 of 171
1/3/12 at 12:49pm
Thread Starter 
Following up the last post -- if you look back in the thread to this posting, you can see the ceiling with the spray foam installed in the first picture, and then the second picture shows the bays with the drywall installed over it:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post20933324

Then, the third picture in this posting shows the ceiling with a lot of the acoustics installed:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post21019737

You can see that we've lost almost no ceiling height even though we have 4" of acoustics, light fixtures, and subwoofers in there.
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