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The "Official" Pioneer Elite SC-55/SC-57 Owners Thread - Page 58

post #1711 of 3857
12/25/11 at 9:26am
Sorry to contradict, but you need to do the exact opposite!

- First calibrate your subwoofer with the antimode.
- Then run the MCACC, while leaving the antimode on.

Consider that, when using the antimode first, you create something that will be seen by the amplifier, as a (nearly) perfect subwoofer for you room.

Therefore, the MCACC will have nearly nothing to do on the subwoofer channel, except correct its level.

If you reverse this order:
- The output level on the sub will be completely wrong.
- The distance for the subwoofer will be wrong, as the antimode internal processing induces a delay, equivalent to an additionnal 90 cm (about 3 ft).

I have always proceeded as I just explained, and it works fine, with a subwoofer (XTZ 99W12.18ICE) that blends in perfectly with my other speakers, down to around 20 Hz.
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post #1712 of 3857
12/25/11 at 10:31am
Do other users hear a what I would describe as a "pop" sound when powering up their SC-57? It's different than the sounds I hear as it's switching sources. Mine is working fine but I always here this noise and am curious if it's normal behavior.
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post #1713 of 3857
12/25/11 at 3:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacbellguy View Post

Do other users hear a what I would describe as a "pop" sound when powering up their SC-57? It's different than the sounds I hear as it's switching sources. Mine is working fine but I always here this noise and am curious if it's normal behavior.

What sound mode do you listen to? I have run into a popping noise when using ALC when turning on the RCVR with a client. Although he had a VSX51 I believe. Any other sound mode there was no noise but with ALC there would be a popping noise when turning on the RCVR and changing inputs.
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post #1714 of 3857
12/25/11 at 4:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacbellguy View Post

Do other users hear a what I would describe as a "pop" sound when powering up their SC-57? It's different than the sounds I hear as it's switching sources. Mine is working fine but I always here this noise and am curious if it's normal behavior.

No pop powering up here even using alc
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post #1715 of 3857
12/25/11 at 5:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by frg View Post

Sorry to contradict, but you need to do the exact opposite!

No problem...glad you were able to help! Like I said, I don't use the antimode, but the Velodyne system instead.
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post #1716 of 3857
12/25/11 at 5:30pm
Well got it all set up. The build quality certainly isn't up to the sc 07. Sounds good. I have alot more dialing in to do. Also the navi based system says it needs an upgrade. I downloaded it,the receiver says it's up to date. Is there a way to play from itunes from my computer. My ipad sees it but itunes on the computer doesn't show any hardware.
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post #1717 of 3857
12/25/11 at 5:59pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaxdad View Post

Well got it all set up. The build quality certainly isn't up to the sc 07. Sounds good. I have alot more dialing in to do. Also the navi based system says it needs an upgrade. I downloaded it,the receiver says it's up to date. Is there a way to play from itunes from my computer. My ipad sees it but itunes on the computer doesn't show any hardware.

Enable home sharing on your iTunes computer.

Then the SC57 should see it when you start AirPlay.

You can also use the Remote app on your iPad.

You should then see a drop down speaker selector and the SC5x should be there. Just beware the volume slide in the app. It can be a little sensitive and jump up.
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post #1718 of 3857
12/25/11 at 9:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

IMO, the 1st mistake Pioneer made was treating the Susano SC-09 like a throw-away receiver to be replaced every 1-2 yrs. At $7k, people aren't going to do that and shouldn't be expected to.

The 2nd mistake was they ignored Susano owners requests for information & plans, even if the plan was "no" due to their financial situation.

3rd & ongoing mistake they make is not to provide information that major bug fixes are available, like the DTS bomb which was exacerbated by the Star Wars titles.

For what it's worth, Apple's been known to throw early generation users under the bus as well. Take the video mirroring feature in iOS 5.x: the original, unjailbroken iPad doesn't support it, but iPad 2 does. And after they bought the company that developed Siri, they sunset the original app to force an upgrade path to the iPhone4S, with Siri as a major component of the marketing of the new phone. Not to mention that all those 4 and 4S iPhones won't support 4G when AT&T upgrades their network.
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post #1719 of 3857
12/25/11 at 10:35pm
Theirs a big difference between $7k and $400 iPhone /iPads

I have to agree,Pioneer has some major work to do.
I have my own issues that pioneer will never fix
1) Eq'ing the 9 band eq shuts the audio off
till you exit that page. ( WTF)
2) good luck getting any mcacc support
from tech support/ from any one. They don't offer any course etc... So you have to rely on the Avs thread. Which can have its own set of issues. ( p.s. Thank AVS for that thread or I would have ditched it long ago)

Marantz has Outlaw to thank for their setup Procedure plus all the Audyssey setup info that comes from them and you get plenty of support from Audyssey also.

Its a shame. They just don't have direction if you ask me. I'm not a diehard fan of any brand. Pioneer Denon, Anthem, Onkyo Marantz,Yamaha, Sony ES

Support is important and I feel they are letting us down. I know sales numbers are looked at but if you provide the right support and a good product it will sell itself.
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post #1720 of 3857
12/26/11 at 6:56am
I second everything what Steve (ss9001) is writing about Pioneer. I'm a 3.5 years Susano owner and I feel abandoned from Pioneer. It is a blessing we have this forum so I got at least info's about the recent firmware fixes for the SC-09.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

IMO, the 1st mistake Pioneer made was treating the Susano SC-09 like a throw-away receiver to be replaced every 1-2 yrs. At $7k, people aren't going to do that and shouldn't be expected to.

The 2nd mistake was they ignored Susano owners requests for information & plans, even if the plan was "no" due to their financial situation.

3rd & ongoing mistake they make is not to provide information that major bug fixes are available, like the DTS bomb which was exacerbated by the Star Wars titles.

Chris Walker was asked about it months ago in one of the SC threads, he said he would check into it, few months later, after repeated posts, he said he could duplicate it in the SC-09 but that was the last anyone heard, read, or knew UNTIL about 1.5 - 2 months ago, when some starting calling and were told a fix was available...the DTS-MA issue goes all the way back to the VSX-80 & 90 series, models that came out years before any of the SC models.

They knew about it because they had the fix for the 80 & 90TXH models already in hand before any info leaked on the SC models. They only reason I found out was I saw a post by someone in another forum that referenced info from Pioneer the 1st of October. But Walker Knew about it long before then from posts in the BD player threads and SC models when Bridge Over River Kwai came out.

To this day, Pioneer has NO info on their website about the Star Wars fix for any of their models on their website. Keeping owners in the dark about a major bug fix is a terrible way to keep customer support. Announce it and let owners decide if they want to take it to a service shop or not. No big deal...why Pioneer treats it like a big secret is a bad marketing decision IMO.

Our big break-through was a guy in Sweden, who has some contact with a service company there, provided the files for several models to owners who could do the update on their own (it was unbelievably easy, anyone who can burn a CD can do it).

Pioneer wouldn't do that, of course, since there policy was not to have owners do updates. Have to take it to a service center to do what turned out to be a 15 min job
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post #1721 of 3857
12/26/11 at 7:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

^^
Bingo

Keep disappointing existing customers & the company has to find & appeal to new ones. Only goes so far. And cost cutting only goes so far.

Keep existing customers in the fold, and they buy other products, like players, etc, buy new models when the upgrade itch needs a scratch and very importantly, they talk up the company's products in forums like this, work associates, family. More sales.

That's what happened with the Ice amp models, vast majority of new owners were so enthused that it was contagious

Your pretty much correct. If i ever upgrade or by another AVR it won't be from pioneer. They lost me for reasons i stated on the last page.

"new owners were so enthused that it was contagious"

Thats an understatement. I can literally smell the ICE when i turn it on.


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post #1722 of 3857
12/26/11 at 8:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

"new owners were so enthused that it was contagious"

Thats an understatement. I can literally smell the ICE when i turn it on.

Yes, marketing is everything. When one looks at the ICEamp logo they think of it as being cool. I'm not speaking for anyone else but when I see "D3", I think of a vitamin.
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post #1723 of 3857
12/26/11 at 8:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

Your pretty much correct. If i ever upgrade or by another AVR it won't be from pioneer. They lost me for reasons i stated on the last page.

"new owners were so enthused that it was contagious"

Thats an understatement. I can literally smell the ICE when i turn it on.


I think it is time the sc-09 owners gave it a rest

If you go back and read the financial reports, pio was losing money and had declining sales in avrs, dvd players, and especially plasma

http://pioneer.jp/press-e/2011/index_2.html

In fy 2010 the turned a net profit by cutting overhead and increased bluray disc sales along with an increase in avr sales and ditching the plasma business

I find it interesting that the much maligned sharpioneer bd players are given credit for increased sales

In 2010 pioneer released their five year plan with share the smiles and passion being a goal along with apple integration and adding new features to bd players and avrs as a way to increase sales

My guess is pio has ditched the flagship market for good and the fact sc-09 buyers are pissed doesn't matter as their is nothing for you to buy

You can bemoan the demise of the b&o ice amps but, the new d3 amps appear to be just as good if not better

the airplay integration and icontrolav app are very smart and well done and appeal to a younger demographic
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post #1724 of 3857
12/26/11 at 9:28am
Can anyone confirm if all the HDMI inputs on the SC-57 correctly handle 3D content?

Thanks,
JD
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post #1725 of 3857
12/26/11 at 10:35am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_alpha View Post

Can anyone confirm if all the HDMI inputs on the SC-57 correctly handle 3D content?

Thanks,
JD

Yes.
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post #1726 of 3857
12/26/11 at 10:42am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by purdyd View Post

My guess is pio has ditched the flagship market for good....

As did almost everyone else.. I don't think Denon will update the AVP/5308.

The SC57, Onkyo 5009 and Yamaha A3010 are what they will consider flagship from now on, IMO.

However, I don't think a convincing argument can be made that anyone is missing out (and I've owned almost every flagship of the last 5 years.)

With the advances in DSP and room correction, as well as most DAC's being fairly good, in addition to lossless audio available as the norm, I think for half the price you are getting the same, or better, performance than the flagships of years past. (maybe not in amplification power, but pure audio quality, but there are other solutions for that...)

Just my. 02.
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post #1727 of 3857
12/26/11 at 12:20pm
agreed... the flagship has sailed, and it's not a bad thing... all of the "good stuff" is available in a much cheaper package...

consider what you "get" in a modern $2k avr, and it's a downright steal compared to what cost significantly more (in real dollars) 10 years ago... or even 5 years ago...
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post #1728 of 3857
12/26/11 at 12:43pm
I'm having a small issue with my SC-55. Occasionally when a Blu-ray movie starts, I lose my center channel sound. To fix this, I need to turn the receiver off then back on. I'm not sure what type of signal its getting, 5.1, 7.1, DTS, but if turning the receiver off fixes the immediate problem, then I think the receiver has issues. Any thoughts or solutions?
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post #1729 of 3857
12/26/11 at 12:44pm
I'm looking for an indepth manual for the iControlAV2 for the iPad. Anyone know where to find one? The video info in the program don't give that much.
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post #1730 of 3857
12/26/11 at 1:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

agreed... the flagship has sailed, and it's not a bad thing... all of the "good stuff" is available in a much cheaper package...

consider what you "get" in a modern $2k avr, and it's a downright steal compared to what cost significantly more (in real dollars) 10 years ago... or even 5 years ago...

It's the nature of the world. During the Bush Administration, I spent $4K on a Denon 5803 in the days before room correction software, and another $3500 on a Denon 5910 DVD player. They were replaced at about 1/3 of the cost with the SC-27 (now 57) and an Oppo BDP-93 bluray player. The Oppo has arguably better sound and better video upscaling than the 5910 - and at least for me, far less handshake problems on HDMI. Both were reference players for their time, and the Denon player is built like a tank and _looks_ like the flagship it was, but except for A/B comparisons, has now been replaced by the cheaper player. And even before I ran MCACC calibration on the newer AVRs, I'd argue that the Pioneer receivers have a wider sound stage and room dispersion than the 5803 did. At least the 5803 had an honorable fate: it got traded with my old Klipsch Reference speakers for a Dell XPS laptop with 64-bit Windows 7.
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post #1731 of 3857
12/26/11 at 2:14pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

I'm looking for an indepth manual for the iControlAV2 for the iPad. Anyone know where to find one? The video info in the program don't give that much.

The only doc for the app I found is on the Pioneer site..

I don't really think there is much depth to the app.. anything about it we can help you figure out?
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post #1732 of 3857
12/26/11 at 2:26pm
My Windows 7 Ultimate x64 HTPC has twin GTX-480 in SLI mode. For the first time, I connected the HDMI_out on the primary GTX-480 to BD_IN on the back panel of my Pioneer SC-57. Previously, the HDMI_out from the HTPC had been connected directly to my LG 47LW5600.

After updating to the latest GeForce drivers (285.62) and updating the LG 47LW5600 firmware, I went to Control Panel -> Sound and noticed a new audio device: SC-57-1 (NVidia High Definition Audio). Selecting this new device and clicking "Properties", the "Encoded Formats" list displays the following: (screencap attached)
- DTS Audio
- Dolby Digital Plus
- Dolby Digital

What about Dolby True HD and DTS Master Audio? I would like to enjoy HD audio bitstreaming when watching BluRay movies with PowerDVD 10. How do I add the HD formats to this list?
LL
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post #1733 of 3857
12/26/11 at 2:32pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vaustein2 View Post

My Windows 7 Ultimate x64 HTPC has twin GTX-480 in SLI mode. For the first time, I connected the HDMI_out on the primary GTX-480 to BD_IN on the back panel of my Pioneer SC-57. Previously, the HDMI_out from the HTPC had been connected directly to my LG 47LW5600.

After updating to the latest GeForce drivers (285.62) and updating the LG 47LW5600 firmware, I went to Control Panel -> Sound and noticed a new audio device: SC-57-1 (NVidia High Definition Audio). Selecting this new device and clicking "Properties", the "Encoded Formats" list displays the following: (screencap attached)
- DTS Audio
- Dolby Digital Plus
- Dolby Digital

What about Dolby True HD and DTS Master Audio? I would like to enjoy HD audio bitstreaming when watching BluRay movies with PowerDVD 10. How do I add the HD formats to this list?

I'd also ask in the PC forums for help with your specific config... that's not really a Pioneer issue.
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post #1734 of 3857
12/26/11 at 2:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

The only doc for the app I found is on the Pioneer site..

I don't really think there is much depth to the app.. anything about it we can help you figure out?

The Finger EQ!
Has three colors and what does it represent from left to right? I understand the Dialong and Bass part but the Finger EQ is a mystery to me.

Phase +?
How does it work?
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post #1735 of 3857
12/26/11 at 3:15pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

The Finger EQ!
Has three colors and what does it represent from left to right? I understand the Dialong and Bass part but the Finger EQ is a mystery to me.

Phase +?
How does it work?

There is no documentation regarding what bands the finger EQ controls (frequency, q or gain.) Obviously low freq > high frequencies L > R

Phase Control is fully explained in your owners manual page 45.

Here is a link to a simplistic explanation of MCACC in general:

Pioneer MCACC Simplfied

And here is a link to the MCACC software for older models.. however, it has lots of good information on how to interpret the MCACC info in the app:

MCACC Software Manual PDF
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post #1736 of 3857
12/26/11 at 4:36pm
I've made the below picture for the owners thread of the SC-37 but thought it would be great to share it here also
It is a picture of the THD of three Pioneer Elite Receivers, namely the Pioneer Elite SC-37(Pioneer SC-LX83), Pioneer SC-57(Pioneer SC-LX85) and the Pioneer SC-09(Pioneer SC-LX90), to compare the THD of the different amps used in their generation Class-D amplified receivers over time.



The conclusion ? Yes the distortion of the newer amps is a bit lower when not driven to their maximum, until say around 90W the distortion of the newer amps is very low with only 0.002% instead of 0.01% for the flagship model and 0.005/0.006% for the SC-37(SC-LX83) also at around 90W.

Source:
http://www.hometheater.com/content/p...-labs-measures
http://www.hometheater.com/content/p...-labs-measures
http://www.hometheater.com/content/p...-labs-measures
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post #1737 of 3857
12/26/11 at 6:00pm
My SC-57 is now finally installed and running and I am loving it. Wonderful receiver. Sound is awesome. A couple of annoying things though. If anyone has suggestions for either of the following issues, I'd appreciate the insight.

1. I bought a Samsung 65" LED TV (D8000) and it came bundled with a Samsung BD-D5500 3D BR player. The player takes F O R E V E R to load a disc and most times I have to cycle power on the receiver to get things to sync up (TV doesn't see a signal on the HDMI input until I cycle power). I've about had it with the BR player but want to know if others have seen similar problems. Probably going to look at a new Oppo to replace the Samsung player unless someone has a better suggestion.

2. When listening to stereo content, the receiver does not engage the subwoofer. I've looked through the manual and tried a few settings but nothing enables the sub in stereo mode. It works fine in other modes (surround, ext stereo, etc.) but I'd really like it working in stereo as well.

System is configured for 5.1 with front and center bi-amping.

Thanks in advance.
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post #1738 of 3857
12/26/11 at 6:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MillPhoto View Post

Jim C. Thanks for the suggestions. I will contact support and post back if they tell me anything interesting.

Just an FYI - I contacted Pioneer support asking about using Zones 2 & 3 when configured for 5.2 with front and center bi-amping. They said it should work fine with an external amp as the other zones are not affected by speaker config. Haven't tried it yet but wanted to share the feedback.
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post #1739 of 3857
12/26/11 at 8:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prietz0r View Post

I've made the below picture for the owners thread of the SC-37 but thought it would be great to share it here also
It is a picture of the THD of three Pioneer Elite Receivers, namely the Pioneer Elite SC-37(Pioneer SC-LX83), Pioneer SC-57(Pioneer SC-LX85) and the Pioneer SC-09(Pioneer SC-LX90), to compare the THD of the different amps used in their generation Class-D amplified receivers over time.



The conclusion ? Yes the distortion of the newer amps is a bit lower when not driven to their maximum, until say around 90W the distortion of the newer amps is very low with only 0.002% instead of 0.01% for the flagship model and 0.005/0.006% for the SC-37(SC-LX83) also at around 90W.

Source:
http://www.hometheater.com/content/p...-labs-measures
http://www.hometheater.com/content/p...-labs-measures
http://www.hometheater.com/content/p...-labs-measures


You've made an error with the overlay. The SC-09 graph was originally scaled to 300 watts, while the other avrs were scaled to 200. This makes the 2 channel distortion overlay graph inaccurate, esp. above 100 watts where the Susano's distortion level weaves below the other two.

Chris
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post #1740 of 3857
12/26/11 at 8:53pm
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I connected the HDMI output of my NVidia GTX 480 directly to the "BD" HDMI input on my SC-57, then connected an HDMI out on the SC-57 to my HDTV. For some reason, the picture was noticeably "fuzzy" and soft, making text difficult to read. I ran the same experiment with a different computer equipped with an NVidia G210 and got similar results. When I reconnected the HDMI out of both computers directly to the TV, picture quality was much better.

I didn't notice any options in the SC-57's system menu for adjusting HDMI picture quality. I really hope that the SC-57 has an option to pass through the HDMI video stream without modification.
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › The "Official" Pioneer Elite SC-55/SC-57 Owners Thread