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The "Official" Pioneer Elite SC-55/SC-57 Owners Thread - Page 99

post #2941 of 3982
although this did catch my attention...

"Zone 4 HDMI Output"
post #2942 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

Especially if the Denon 4520 is within a few hundered dollars of the same price range and also has 4K upscaling, for what's worth, to go with XT32 and Pro capability. It's even less competitive relative to the new Onkyos like the 818, except for extreme power needs. Of course, there's QC to contend with for Onkyo.....

So what's the bet about when Walkamo makes his first post to the new SC thread:-)?

If it were me, I'd be looking really hard at the upcoming Denon 4520 before making the final decision.
If he knows what's good for him, he'll refrain - because he might get an more than he bargained for
post #2943 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post


Couldn't agree with you more, Stu, unfortunately.

My adrenaline was up, hoping to read some really exciting news about a major upgrade considering someone thinks the 57 is obsolete now

Dare I hope for a new MCACC with independent crossovers? A new Susano replacement (which would mean picking me up off the floor )?

Something to make me excited & interested in swapping my SC-09 susano and stay in the Pioneer fold?

No....just another zone (don't need), better gui (don't care), & usb dac (mildly interesting), and 1 more hdmi i/o (also don't need or care) - 2 outputs are 1 more than I can use. Even if I get a PJ, 2 is all I (and most of us) need.

what can I say...sorry guys

the latest from Pioneer still misses the mark for me on what I'm looking for in the way of a true upgrade coming from an SC-09.

Until MCACC gets independent X-overs and built-in sub EQ - no sale.

It's disappointing because the jump from the 3x to the 5x was at least a real upgrade: a new Class D amp, Marvell Qdeo 3D upscaling and handling of video Internet streams, Neo:X, assignable amps, the DAC filter adjustment, even Precision Distance.

IMO this is $500+ for a glorified firmware upgrade and 4K passthrough. However, it will make the 55/7 a good closeout value for those folks that are Audyssey agnostics.
post #2944 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post


maybe a wise move
you noticed I didn't wait
post #2945 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

IMO this is $500+ for a glorified firmware upgrade and 4K passthrough. However, it will make the 55/7 a good closeout value for those folks that are Audyssey agnostics.

true

and 4K pass-thru is about the same situation as the move to 3D capability. When you have players with 2 HDMI outs, 4K pass isn't needed. Plus the usual caveats - no 4K content on the horizon, other things will render the AVR in need of replacement before it comes along, so it's only marketing hook now. What player or source is going to use the pass-thru?

even if/when 4k broadcasts & content happen, the TV & PJ's will have there own 4K scalers. No need to do it in a receiver. Plus, Marvell chip already capable of 4K upscaling...awaiting CE mfgs to implement it which Pioneer didn't. That'll be in next years' models

I'm still sitting on the sidelines, waiting for news on the 4520 & evaluating my financial ability to possibly make the jump to separates with the AVP, and I've read production on the AVP is over.

the SC-09 still meets most of my needs and it's paid for so I'm in no hurry. when my fav dealer tells me the supply of AVP & 4311 are very short supply, then I'll have get serious.
post #2946 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

maybe a wise move
you noticed I didn't wait

lol... i knew you'd dissect things and put them in "proper" perspective... you and stuart know how to correctly decode a list of specs...
post #2947 of 3982
Looks like the officially support 4ohms now with their new Elite
post #2948 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodfellas27 View Post

Looks like the officially support 4ohms now with their new Elite

nice that they acknowledged what many of us & professional reviewers knew all along from the Ice amp days

Even the old MOSFET class A/B amps were robust enough to handle 4 ohm loads. I did for several years with the 49Txi and 59Txi with Magnepan speakers. It's been a red herring issue all along.

B&O published data on 4 ohm power and every company that used their Ice amp modules published specs with 4 ohm capability. All the reviews on every SC generation bench tested them at 4 ohms. They were quite capable amps, so was the new amp design and nothing has changed since last year.

Pioneer finally decided to get past their cover their ass mentality especially since Denon proudly claimed 4 ohm capability on the going-on-3 year old 4311 with standard class A/B amps!

And nothing new here, same amps as last year's 55/57. No new breakthrough new amp engineering so why advertise now when they could have last year or the Ice amps before? Can it be marketing so they aren't perceived as less capable as competitor's models? You bet it is!

Sorry, not impressed...just another marketing hook to (ahem) differentiate the new models from the old and make it seem like your getting something different & better....and spend your money on the same thing as you already have.

Did that game myself several times, I learned the hard way. Hopefully, now I'm more able to distinguish a true upgrade from a marketing line.
post #2949 of 3982
anyone uses .dff (DSD) files? How the heck you rip those? Looks like the new Elite support that DSD via USB (HDD)
post #2950 of 3982
^^^

not easily... i know there's a way to do it with an old ps3, but that's about it...
post #2951 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

nice that they acknowledged what many of us & professional reviewers knew all along from the Ice amp days

.

explicitly, anyway... since day 1, there's always been a logo on the sc's that made 4 ohm capabilty obvious...
post #2952 of 3982
Asynchronous USB is a great upgrade.
post #2953 of 3982
^^
true, can't deny that.

especially when you can spend thousands on ext DAC's with async USB. The Wyred4Sound DAC2 costs $1500 so including in a AVR is very nice for those who want to do computer based audio.

it'll be worth it for some, and others not.

But updating MCACC to include subwoofer EQ benefits everyone, no matter what sources you use, including analog, or whether it's HT or music.

And that's one of the main reasons why quite a few former Pioneer enthusiasts on this forum have gone to Denon, even Onkyo.

To me it seems Pioneer is looking at feature trees when they could be looking more at the audio forest. No doubt, USB DACs are sexy while updating your room EQ software isn't. Sexy wins every time.
post #2954 of 3982
to be honest, i've yet to see anything that proves that async usb provides an audible difference...

many words have been said on that topic... little "proof" has been offered...

however, the implication of that "zone 4 hdmi" bulletpoint is rather large... if the implication is true, that would be a right useful thing (albeit to a very small number of users)...
post #2955 of 3982
140 watts per channel at 1 khz? Who specs like that? A more accurate rating is probably 120 watts per channel from 20-20khz like other maunfacturers spec.their receivers.
post #2956 of 3982
I agree with you on sub EQ.

But I think it is also safe to say that the world is moving to music servers of one type or another so an asynchronous USB can help people get rid of the myriad additional players etc. Also, for those audiocentric fans, they are now outside of the Pioneer jitter reduction hegemony.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

^^
true, can't deny that.

especially when you can spend thousands on ext DAC's with async USB. The Wyred4Sound DAC2 costs $1500 so including in a AVR is very nice for those who want to do computer based audio.

it'll be worth it for some, and others not.

But updating MCACC to include subwoofer EQ benefits everyone, no matter what sources you use, including analog, or whether it's HT or music.

And that's one of the main reasons why quite a few former Pioneer enthusiasts on this forum have gone to Denon, even Onkyo.

To me it seems Pioneer is looking at feature trees when they could be looking more at the audio forest. No doubt, USB DACs are sexy while updating your room EQ software isn't. Sexy wins every time.
post #2957 of 3982
OK - How about I both limit the query to just the Gold system (I'm fairly well convinced now the Silver series wouldn't be a problem) and extend it -- all in one single, fluid motion, note -- beyond just owners to the other wise and learned participants on the forum:

Can a SC-57 do a competent job driving the Monitor Audio Gold 5.1 speaker system?

(I guess if I really wanted a torrent of responses I could add that proponents of the NEW SC flagship claim it could do it flawlessly!)

- JD


Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_alpha View Post

Any SC-57 owners out there driving a Monitor Audio 5.1 Gold or Silver system with their AVR?

If so, what's your impression been - is the AVR providing plenty of power and driving the speaker comfortably? Any issues? Finding it a good match?

Cheers,
JD
post #2958 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

Especially if the Denon 4520 is within a few hundered dollars of the same price range and also has 4K upscaling, for what's worth, to go with XT32 and Pro capability. It's even less competitive relative to the new Onkyos like the 818, except for extreme power needs. Of course, there's QC to contend with for Onkyo.....

So what's the bet about when Walkamo makes his first post to the new SC thread:-)?

for those who had "less than 3 hours" in the pool... winner winner chicken dinner!

clicky

he confirms in that post the item that caught my attention...
post #2959 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_alpha View Post

OK - How about I both limit the query to just the Gold system...Can a SC-57 do a competent job driving the Monitor Audio Gold 5.1 speaker system?

Looking at the top speaker in the Gold line - GX300
30-60K hz
8 ohm nominal
90 dB sensitivity
power capability 200 watts rms

why wouldn't it?
looks pretty easy to drive speaker to me

not particular ultra-low response with 6.5" woofers, relatively high efficiency, and not low impedance.

something I'm missing?
post #2960 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

for those who had "less than 3 hours" in the pool... winner winner chicken dinner!

clicky

he confirms in that post the item that caught my attention...

Slightly more than an hour, actually. Pass the rotisserie chicken with salsa please.....
post #2961 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodfellas27 View Post

anyone uses .dff (DSD) files? How the heck you rip those? Looks like the new Elite support that DSD via USB (HDD)

The USB DSD compatibility is one of the most curious inclusions I have ever seen on an AVR. Unless DSD makes a miraculous comeback via DFF on all of the high res audio download sites, it is not hyperbolic to think that no more than a few dozen Elite owners would ever be able to use the USB DSD feature.

AJ
post #2962 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

Slightly more than an hour, actually. Pass the rotisserie chicken with salsa please.....

yea, true... at least save me a leg...

Quote:
Originally Posted by WiWavelength View Post

The USB DSD compatibility is one of the most curious inclusions I have ever seen on an AVR. Unless DSD makes a miraculous comeback via DFF on all of the high res audio download sites, it is not hyperbolic to think that no more than a few dozen Elite owners would ever be able to use the USB DSD feature.

AJ

i would lay odds that kate smith will rise from the dead to sing "god bless america" at a flyers home game before that scenario plays out...

it's an "audiophile bullet point item"... one that will no doubt be praised to the high heavens for it's night and day impact on sound quality...
post #2963 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

for those who had "less than 3 hours" in the pool... winner winner chicken dinner!

clicky

he confirms in that post the item that caught my attention...

a true multi-room a/v switcher

that could be pretty useful for whole house a/v & simplify the gear. one AVR does it all.

OK that is nice, really. But one can always get 2X2, 4X4, 8X8 matrix switchers from HDTV Supply, etc that handle hdmi 1.4. some include SPDIF and 2 ch analog audio. Of course, you will pay good money for some of those so Pioneer including it is a nice touch.
post #2964 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

Slightly more than an hour, actually. Pass the rotisserie chicken with salsa please.....

he posted in the friendly thread too
post #2965 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiWavelength View Post

The USB DSD compatibility is one of the most curious inclusions I have ever seen on an AVR. Unless DSD makes a miraculous comeback via DFF on all of the high res audio download sites, it is not hyperbolic to think that no more than a few dozen Elite owners would ever be able to use the USB DSD feature.

AJ

it is a weird capability to have. I have never tried to rip a SACD & don't know where to even dl a dsd based file, let alone play one

And I own hundreds of SACD's & DVD-A's, more SACD's alone than all the CD's I ever bought. Why include something which is 1) a niche format that fewer companies want to support anymore, including Pioneer's player division & 2) an even more esoteric music file that even fewer people would ever use?

When Pioneer had the chance to build a universal BD player that would play all the formats, they passed until this past year, disappointing many Pioneer player fans. When it counted, they punted. Now they want to support this file? Makes no sense to me either.

Why spend engineering effort on this when they left on the table something all people can use & benefit from - a better MCACC?

But that's Pioneer...marching to its own drum again.
post #2966 of 3982
@steve...

i think the "big users" of a feature like that will be those who have both a pj and a little tv in the same room, moreso than hdmi to another true zone... merely having a hdmi port doesn't overcome the long distance run issues with hdmi (although there are starting to be somewhat reasonably priced solutions to that)....

the only feature that could get me interested in a new avr right now is a well implemented matrix switch... it would simplify my life greatly...

that's why i also noted "very small market"... for those that can use it, that'd be a great feature.... for the vast majority, it's completely worthless...

edit: lol, he did, didn't he?
post #2967 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

i would lay odds that kate smith will rise from the dead to sing "god bless america" at a flyers home game before that scenario plays out...

lol
as popular as my beloved quadraphonic

edit - if he was a real man, he'd be spreading the gospel in the susano thread
post #2968 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

for those who had "less than 3 hours" in the pool... winner winner chicken dinner!

clicky

he confirms in that post the item that caught my attention...

and to think I actually defended Mr. W not so long ago.....

Perhaps the best thing about the SC-68 making the SC5x obsolete,

and I mean this with the utmost sincerity ,

is that the wonderful constructive Pioneer comments and Denon salesmanship may now move to another forum!

I am going to miss you guys....

now, can anyone tell me about the SC-5x firmware upgrade that was just posted?
post #2969 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by purdyd View Post

and to think I actually defended Mr. W not so long ago.....

Perhaps the best thing about the SC-68 making the SC5x obsolete,

and I mean this with the utmost sincerity ,

is that the wonderful constructive Pioneer comments and Denon salesmanship may now move to another forum!

I am going to miss you guys....

now, can anyone tell me about the SC-5x firmware upgrade that was just posted?

I can't really tell you anything overly helpful, other than that the new firmware applied easily, took only a few minutes, and didn't brick the receiver. That's a good start in my book.
post #2970 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by purdyd View Post

and to think i actually defended mr. W not so long ago.....

Congrats, you've finally caught onto his "game"...

perhaps the best thing about the sc-68 making the sc5x obsolete,

and i mean this with the utmost sincerity ,

is that the wonderful constructive pioneer comments and denon salesmanship may now move to another forum!

I am going to miss you guys....

admit it, you've enjoyed our lively discussions

and there's no more Denon salemanship here than what people like Filmmixer (the thread starter, who swaps gear a few months after he says how great it is ) & Joerod (who gets gear from mfg's to review in the forum) have done for Pioneer, Denon & Onkyo over the past few years

just calling it they way I see it with respect to some forum members who promote gear for us normal folks. At least i still have my SC-09. No one can accuse me of promoting it because I was "in bed" with Pioneer & moving on...

now, can anyone tell me about the sc-5x firmware upgrade that was just posted?

pm Hkan, he's made it available and can probably get you details on what it's for.

Seriously, I honestly don't know how much I'll post in a new SC-68 thread. I haven't been posting a lot...this is the most I've posted in over a month. Rediscovering another old hobby, photography, so spending time doing research on lenses, accessories, reading & re-learning forgotten techniques

not much time to re-hash things here. And I've been gradually doing my own due diligence in asking questions in several Denon threads

But I certainly couldn't resist the siren song of new models.
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