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The "Official" Pioneer Elite SC-55/SC-57 Owners Thread - Page 104

post #3091 of 3857
5/17/12 at 7:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by t-town oil View Post

This is when listening to a 2 channel source of course

I agree, I also didn't get anything from SUB when the spkrs were set to SMALL, SW to YES and crossed over at 80.

Now my setting are Spkrs to LARGE, SW to PLUS and Crossover to 80. Now plenty of bass even in Pure direct.

I hope it helps.
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post #3092 of 3857
5/17/12 at 7:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by purdyd View Post

I think in a typical room there is quite a bit of reverb going on in the bass and the default sampling spot for mcacc is around 120 msec

If you specify the sample point to be 50 msec, you may get more bass

But you need to see the reverb graph

Read this starting around page 15

http://www.pioneer.eu/files/support/...A.En.01_35.pdf

Reverb graph for my fronts after mcacc with 50 msec sample point

Thanks. This might take me awhile to digest. Just comparing your reverb graph to mine, I definitely see a difference at 63Hz. Slope is shallower and it tops out at a lower level on mine. Not exactly sure how to interpret this, but skimming the parts of the mcacc manual you flagged looks like it's worth some study. I'm sure I'll have some questions. Thanks, again.
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post #3093 of 3857
5/17/12 at 7:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkdahiya View Post

I agree, I also didn't get anything from SUB when the spkrs were set to SMALL, SW to YES and crossed over at 80.

Now my setting are Spkrs to LARGE, SW to PLUS and Crossover to 80. Now plenty of bass even in Pure direct.

I hope it helps.

It does. Thanks. Actually makes a lot of sense.

Are you doing anything with the crossover on the sub? I have fronts with built-in subs that are pretty good down to about 35-40Hz and I was thinking about running them full range and crossing the separate sub at just about where the mains bottom out for starters to avoid doubling up the mid bass. Basically just using the sub for very low extension. Not wedded to this set up but I figured I'd start there. How are you integrating the sub with the mains?
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post #3094 of 3857
5/17/12 at 8:52pm
MCACC should have never have had the "Plus" option in the speaker menu.
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post #3095 of 3857
5/18/12 at 5:19am
^^^

agreed...
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post #3096 of 3857
5/18/12 at 6:18am
I've heard you go 10Hz above what your main speakers will go down to.
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post #3097 of 3857
5/18/12 at 6:32am
^ Hmmm... 10 Hz is pretty close for most typical crossover settings. It is related to crossover slope and speaker response. I typically prefer an octave (factor of two) above the -3 dB point, sometimes only half an octave. If my main speakers reach 20 Hz, that is a crossover of 40 Hz or above; if they claim 40 Hz, I would cross over at 80 Hz. Now, modern crossover slopes are pretty steep, so you can tighten down, and I tend to do that at higher frequencies. For example, if the speaker cuts off around 80 - 100 Hz, I'll probably set the crossover around 100 - 120 Hz. However, I personally do not care for speakers with such limited LF response as the sub becomes localized -- you can hear the LF sounds shift to the sub instead of being "everywhere".
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post #3098 of 3857
5/18/12 at 6:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

^ Hmmm... 10 Hz is pretty close for most typical crossover settings. It is related to crossover slope and speaker response. I typically prefer an octave (factor of two) above the -3 dB point, sometimes only half an octave. If my main speakers reach 20 Hz, that is a crossover of 40 Hz or above; if they claim 40 Hz, I would cross over at 80 Hz. Now, modern crossover slopes are pretty steep, so you can tighten down, and I tend to do that at higher frequencies. For example, if the speaker cuts off around 80 - 100 Hz, I'll probably set the crossover around 100 - 120 Hz. However, I personally do not care for speakers with such limited LF response as the sub becomes localized -- you can hear the LF sounds shift to the sub instead of being "everywhere".

^^^ this

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblev View Post

I've heard you go 10Hz above what your main speakers will go down to.

that would be very tight... also, it should be what they will actually reach in your room, not what the specs are... also, it is much easier to "work around" room mode issues with a subwoofer than with mains... etc.

edit: hint... you aren't "getting more out of your main speakers" by attempting to drive them as close to their -3db point as they will go... you are "getting less out of your sub" by doing this, and in virtually ALL cases, "getting less out of the overall system"...
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post #3099 of 3857
5/18/12 at 8:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

^ Hmmm... 10 Hz is pretty close for most typical crossover settings. It is related to crossover slope and speaker response. I typically prefer an octave (factor of two) above the -3 dB point, sometimes only half an octave. If my main speakers reach 20 Hz, that is a crossover of 40 Hz or above; if they claim 40 Hz, I would cross over at 80 Hz. Now, modern crossover slopes are pretty steep, so you can tighten down, and I tend to do that at higher frequencies. For example, if the speaker cuts off around 80 - 100 Hz, I'll probably set the crossover around 100 - 120 Hz. However, I personally do not care for speakers with such limited LF response as the sub becomes localized -- you can hear the LF sounds shift to the sub instead of being "everywhere".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblev View Post

I've heard you go 10Hz above what your main speakers will go down to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^ this



that would be very tight... also, it should be what they will actually reach in your room, not what the specs are... also, it is much easier to "work around" room mode issues with a subwoofer than with mains... etc.

edit: hint... you aren't "getting more out of your main speakers" by attempting to drive them as close to their -3db point as they will go... you are "getting less out of your sub" by doing this, and in virtually ALL cases, "getting less out of the overall system"...

This is all very helpful. Thanks. I wasn't actually planning on picking a crossover and then sticking with it. That wouldn't be any fun. Just looking for a starting point. I currently have DefTech BP2002TLs which already sound pretty good down to about 35-40Hz in my room because of the built-in subs. I ignore the published specs. I agree they don't really mean anything. So, I ran a series of frequency sweeps from a calibration disc and both listened to the volume and watched the fluctuation on an SPL meter and it looked (and sounded) like I started to lose the low end around 40Hz -- maybe a hair lower -- which was much higher than the published frequency response as expected. But, up to that point, the towers sounded pretty damn good.

I plan to add an external sub next week to try to supplement the low end. I figured I'd start the sub's crossover in the 70Hz range and slowly crank it down during a series of frequency sweeps until I get as smooth a blend as I can. Hopefully, that's all I'll need to do.

My main area of uncertainty is trying to gauge the relative performance of the mid-bass of the sub versus the towers. If the mains didn't have powered subs already it would be a no-brainer. Go with the sub. But I don't think it's going to be that easy in my set up. The external sub I have coming is a Hsu ULS-15 and I'll need to test whether the subs in the towers or the Hsu performs better in the 40-80Hz range. Not exactly sure how to do this, other than to comparison shop by first feeding the external sub a bass-managed signal to cut out the towers and redirect to the Hsu and then switching to a full signal to the towers and the Hsu and then using the Hsu's external cross to cut off the sub's mid-bass; then, just picking the one that sounds better in the mid-bass range. I'd hate to cut out the towers' subs with bass management. Seems a waste. But I will if they can't compete.
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post #3100 of 3857
5/18/12 at 11:42am
Since Pio does not EQ the sub you'll have to spend some time moving the sub(s) around for flattest frequency response. You'll also have to make sure phase is matched at the crossover point, which is most easily performed by playing a test tone at the crossover frequency and adjust the sub's delay (phase) for maximum amplitude at the listening position. That ensures the subs and mains are in-phase at the crossover frequency, at the listening position. As the signals move away from that point relative phase becomes less important.

Most speakers, my beloved Maggies included, exhibit high distortion as you approach their bottom end. For normal speakers with 25 - 40 Hz spec'd low end, a crossover in the 50 - 80 Hz range (an octave above the spec low end) will result in much lower distortion since the sub can handle it much better than the mains. We are not terribly sensitive to distortion at low frequencies so it might be obvious in a casual listening test.

A 24-dB/octave crossover slope (or any slope) will not have reached full roll-off only an octave away, but it will be down maybe 10 - 20 dB (I am too lazy to run the math at the moment) so easily half to one-quarter as loud as the sub, allowing the sub to "take over" the sound down low.
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post #3101 of 3857
5/18/12 at 12:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

Since Pio does not EQ the sub you'll have to spend some time moving the sub(s) around for flattest frequency response. You'll also have to make sure phase is matched at the crossover point, which is most easily performed by playing a test tone at the crossover frequency and adjust the sub's delay (phase) for maximum amplitude at the listening position. That ensures the subs and mains are in-phase at the crossover frequency, at the listening position. As the signals move away from that point relative phase becomes less important.

Most speakers, my beloved Maggies included, exhibit high distortion as you approach their bottom end. For normal speakers with 25 - 40 Hz spec'd low end, a crossover in the 50 - 80 Hz range (an octave above the spec low end) will result in much lower distortion since the sub can handle it much better than the mains. We are not terribly sensitive to distortion at low frequencies so it might be obvious in a casual listening test.

A 24-dB/octave crossover slope (or any slope) will not have reached full roll-off only an octave away, but it will be down maybe 10 - 20 dB (I am too lazy to run the math at the moment) so easily half to one-quarter as loud as the sub, allowing the sub to "take over" the sound down low.

Glad my sub is wireless. I was also thinking about trying out the "crawl" -- putting the sub in the listening position and then crawling around the floor at sub level to listen for the strongest bass and then putting the sub right there.

My Deftech towers are spec'd down to 17Hz, which is crap. I've measured them rolling off significantly at 35-40Hz. To avoid distortion, would you still recommend a crossover for the mains, even though the SC-57 is fairly limited and can't cross below 50Hz? My towers are fairly old and so far, I haven't really heard any distortion running them full range, but I haven't been listening for it either. Thanks.

I love Maggies. But I could never get away with electrostatics. . . .
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post #3102 of 3857
5/18/12 at 1:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimjr View Post


Glad my sub is wireless. I was also thinking about trying out the "crawl" -- putting the sub in the listening position and then crawling around the floor at sub level to listen for the strongest bass and then putting the sub right there.

My Deftech towers are spec'd down to 17Hz, which is crap. I've measured them rolling off significantly at 35-40Hz. To avoid distortion, would you still recommend a crossover for the mains, even though the SC-57 is fairly limited and can't cross below 50Hz? My towers are fairly old and so far, I haven't really heard any distortion running them full range, but I haven't been listening for it either. Thanks.

I love Maggies. But I could never get away with electrostatics. . . .

From personal experience when I owned the SC-57: let the real sub (the ULS-15 you're thinking of) do what it does best and cross your towers at 60 or 80 Hz. And get an Antimode or used AS-EQ1 to handle the EQ of your sub, which MCACC can't below 63 Hz. You'll still get the benefit of being able to better control your towers' bass volume with their trim, without asking your towers to handle bass frequencies that fall below their -3db point.

BTW I have two ULS-15s at home. Good choice, and IMO a no-brainer to handle deep bass over a Mythos BP tower.
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post #3103 of 3857
5/18/12 at 2:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

From personal experience when I owned the SC-57: let the real sub (the ULS-15 you're thinking of) do what it does best and cross your towers at 60 or 80 Hz. And get an Antimode or used AS-EQ1 to handle the EQ of your sub, which MCACC can't below 63 Hz. You'll still get the benefit of being able to better control your towers' bass volume with their trim, without asking your towers to handle bass frequencies that fall below their -3db point.

BTW I have two ULS-15s at home. Good choice, and IMO a no-brainer to handle deep bass over a Mythos BP tower.

Thanks Stuart. I am pondering a dual drive on the ULS-15 as well. Unfortunately, I think the cross on the SC-57 drops from 80 to 50Hz so a 60 cross is not available. I guess I'll have to experiment and see what I can get away with.
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post #3104 of 3857
5/18/12 at 6:18pm
I have an older SC-27 but do not use it's crossover so haven't looked where it can be set (I use an external active crossover). Without finding a review with measurements, or doing them myself, I could not say what an optimal roll-off is for your mains. If they spec 17 Hz (is that -3 dB?) but you measure 40 Hz in-room I would probably try 60 Hz first and see what happens.

The crawl is a good test with just the sub. You'll still need to align the sound wave with the mains after that. And of course as Stuart suggests a bass EQ might help. With the combination of the single-band PEQ in my subs and bodacious panels my bass response is not too bad, though nowhere near as flat as some of the curves posted.
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post #3105 of 3857
5/19/12 at 6:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimjr View Post

Thanks Stuart. I am pondering a dual drive on the ULS-15 as well. Unfortunately, I think the cross on the SC-57 drops from 80 to 50Hz so a 60 cross is not available. I guess I'll have to experiment and see what I can get away with.

i would start with 80, and unless proven by measurements to be mo' bettah at 50, stay at 80... i would NOT do this strictly by ear, as you are already predisposed to "want" a certain outcome... i would take a somewhat educated guess that 80 will be better, simply based on years of 'sperience setting up systems (not to mention having seen heaven knows how many graphs from others)...

as noted earlier... you need to think of your system as a whole, not as a
"am i getting the most out of one piece of it"...

for instance, my mains have measured (not spec'd) in room response well into the 30's... they are crossed at 80, for two very big reasons...

- crossing them there allows me to work with the two dominant modes in my room with the subs... with the combination of positioning/eq (primarily eq, including other tweaks), i make those modes "go away" in the end result... solving this issue can't be done by "ear", at least not by me, since in this region, peaks are very evident to my ears, but dips/nulls aren't... i am not alone in that, judging by ancdotal reports from many who report "i lost my bass when i eq'd my sub"... no, the user didn't "lose their bass", they lost the mountainous response curve, and likely eliminated a monster peak that they were identifying as "good strong bass"...

- regardless of the measured response (and if by some miracle the mains placement works well with the room modes, which virtually never happens), the mains cannot even dream of producing that 40-80hz octave with the authority that the subwoofers do... also, relieving the mains of producing that octave will allow them to perform "better"...

there's more, but those two reasons alone speak favorably of edging your xover points as high as they will go* vs. as low as they will go...

subwoofers have one job, and that's to produce 2 octaves (or in the case of some of us, 3 and a bit more )... let them do it...

* assuming no localization, etc. and when it comes to localization, keep in mind that many times when people loclaize their sub, it's because of outside influences (rattles, etc.), not because of the frequencies coming from the sub...
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post #3106 of 3857
5/19/12 at 6:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post


i would start with 80, and unless proven by measurements to be mo' bettah at 50, stay at 80... i would NOT do this strictly by ear, as you are already predisposed to "want" a certain outcome... i would take a somewhat educated guess that 80 will be better, simply based on years of 'sperience setting up systems (not to mention having seen heaven knows how many graphs from others)...

as noted earlier... you need to think of your system as a whole, not as a
"am i getting the most out of one piece of it"...

for instance, my mains have measured (not spec'd) in room response well into the 30's... they are crossed at 80, for two very big reasons...

- crossing them there allows me to work with the two dominant modes in my room with the subs... with the combination of positioning/eq (primarily eq, including other tweaks), i make those modes "go away" in the end result... solving this issue can't be done by "ear", at least not by me, since in this region, peaks are very evident to my ears, but dips/nulls aren't... i am not alone in that, judging by ancdotal reports from many who report "i lost my bass when i eq'd my sub"... no, the user didn't "lose their bass", they lost the mountainous response curve, and likely eliminated a monster peak that they were identifying as "good strong bass"...

- regardless of the measured response (and if by some miracle the mains placement works well with the room modes, which virtually never happens), the mains cannot even dream of producing that 40-80hz octave with the authority that the subwoofers do... also, relieving the mains of producing that octave will allow them to perform "better"...

there's more, but those two reasons alone speak favorably of edging your xover points as high as they will go* vs. as low as they will go...

subwoofers have one job, and that's to produce 2 octaves (or in the case of some of us, 3 and a bit more )... let them do it...

* assuming no localization, etc. and when it comes to localization, keep in mind that many times when people loclaize their sub, it's because of outside influences (rattles, etc.), not because of the frequencies coming from the sub...

This is good advice. I'm beginning to see that there are so many variables that I'm going to have to try multiple configurations and see what works best. I've spent some time reading posts on the DefTech owners thread and there seem to be a fair number of people over there who have mains similar to mine who seem equally convinced that running the mains either full or at a low cross in the vicinity of 40Hz is the way to go with a separate sub. This forum seems to attract a fair number of smart people and a fair number of defensible strategies as a result and everybody seems to have a point. I expect I'm in for a multi-hour project of trial and error until I dial it in. Ultimately, I think that no matter what solution I come up with, someone will be convinced that I'm doing it wrong.
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post #3107 of 3857
5/19/12 at 6:58am
^^^

jim, if i was you, i would make 2 investments...

- the first one is cheap... spend 20 bucks at the big river and buy the master handbook of acoustics... written in a language us humans can understand, it will be the best 20 bucks you ever spent on a/v...

- second one, a bit more expensive, but if you really want to do this right, you need to be able to measure... i am very fond of the omnimic kit... it is VERY easy to use, you will be up and getting useful data in less than 5 minutes...

i can't stress enough the necessity to measure... if someone does not have measurements, they do not have a defensible position...
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post #3108 of 3857
5/19/12 at 7:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^

jim, if i was you, i would make 2 investments...

- the first one is cheap... spend 20 bucks at the big river and buy the master handbook of acoustics... written in a language us humans can understand, it will be the best 20 bucks you ever spent on a/v...

- second one, a bit more expensive, but if you really want to do this right, you need to be able to measure... i am very fond of the omnimic kit... it is VERY easy to use, you will be up and getting useful data in less than 5 minutes...

i can't stress enough the necessity to measure... if someone does not have measurements, they do not have a defensible position...

Thanks, Chris. Heading to Amazon now.
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post #3109 of 3857
5/19/12 at 8:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimjr View Post

(1) I expect I'm in for a multi-hour project of trial and error until I dial it in. (2) Ultimately, I think that no matter what solution I come up with, someone will be convinced that I'm doing it wrong.

1. Possibly, but get a measurement kit as Chris suggests and it will go faster and be much more fun.

2. Fortunately, the only opinion that matters in the end is yours.

The catch with most audiophile measurement systems is that they don't generally do real-time analysis and in particular distortion analysis well. I cannot speak to your system, and in fact cross over my own mains fairly low, but the FR response won't always (or even usually IME) tell you that the overall distortion is much lower with the mains crossed at 80 Hz instead of 40 Hz (or whatever). Just the FR curves do not tell the whole picture... If you can find a review of your speakers that has THD plots you might be able to see where the LF distortion starts to rise and thus determine the optimal crossover frequency.

Another factor at play, and one my choice makes me live with, is that where the mains are is rarely the best place for the subs. LF response is heavily dependent upon the room, so crossing over a little higher and placing the subwoofer properly can provide a much flatter freqeuncy response.

Get the kit, get the sub, have some fun! - Don
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post #3110 of 3857
5/19/12 at 9:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

1. Possibly, but get a measurement kit as Chris suggests and it will go faster and be much more fun.

2. Fortunately, the only opinion that matters in the end is yours.

The catch with most audiophile measurement systems is that they don't generally do real-time analysis and in particular distortion analysis well. Don

I guess i would disagree that subwoofers do well at 60-100 Hz

woofers yes, subs no

the graphs i have seen show subs have a lot of distortion

i suppose that can also depend upon the quality of your front woofer and subwoofers

annd also, as pointed out, you can localize bass, at least I can at 80 Hz

so i am down at 55 Hz for the external crossover frequency

and there is plenty of authority in the bass

just my opinion
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post #3111 of 3857
5/19/12 at 9:31am
A few months ago, my receiver Pioneer SC-55 was reset by itself and I lost all the settings (radio stations names). Since that, the problems started.
1. First, it started to lose the network connection for few seconds. Now I'm no more able to connect it to my network. Sometimes, it is connected, but after a few minutes it looses the connection. I have a modem with router for Internet and Fiber TV (Bell Canada). All the other devices connected at my network work fine. It is not able to detect the network but, if I send to it a ping command from a computer, it responds. Also, in the router table I can see it when it is plugged and the router LED is on for that connection. The av receiver option Network Information is disabled and if I tried to display the option Network Setup it displays the message Network Setup. Applying settings. and nothing is happing. I reset the modem and the receiver many times. Sometimes it works, but only for a few minutes.
2. When the receiver is not able to detect the network, the option Firmware update is disabled. It has to be enabled to allow an update via USB. The firmware version is 1-202-086-702-063.
3. When the receiver is not able to detect the network, it also is not able to connect with an iPad via Bluetooth (AS-BT200). On the av display it shows Starting. When it shows Starting nothing works.
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post #3112 of 3857
5/19/12 at 9:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by purdyd View Post

I guess i would disagree that subwoofers do well at 60-100 Hz

woofers yes, subs no

the graphs i have seen show subs have a lot of distortion

i suppose that can also depend upon the quality of your front woofer and subwoofers

annd also, as pointed out, you can localize bass, at least I can at 80 Hz

so i am down at 55 Hz for the external crossover frequency

and there is plenty of authority in the bass

just my opinion

There are so many speakers out there that any generalization is likely to be wrong.

Most of the subs I have spent any time with over the years have been fairly high-end, mostly servo or driven by massive amps, and usually tested well to around 100 Hz or so (about as high as I remember testing). Most loudspeakers I have tested or seen tested also exhibit pretty high distortion by the time they hit somewhere between 50 and 100 Hz and moderate to loud volume (80 - 90 dB). I have noticed many of today's top speakers have very low distortion compared to what I recall; I am most certainly out of date.

Many years ago I helped set up and participated in listening studies to see where people could localize a sub. We had several identical subs in different positions, a line-level switcher, and steep crossover (I think it was 48 dB/octave but am not sure, it was long ago). The hardest part was getting the room response the same for each sub (we also did some field trials, as in the field behind the store). We tested numerous people over several weeks. As a general rule, everyone could tell where it was at 100 Hz, and nobody could at 50 Hz. In between was a variety of results; I fell on the low end, others on the upper. THX and the 80 Hz magic crossover wasn't around then, but is probably not unreasonable for most people. Still, I think (but alas do not remember for sure) that around 60 Hz was where the majority dropped off.

For the record, I use Magnepan MG-IIIa's crossed over (active crossover) to a pair of Rythmik subs at around 40 - 50 Hz (not sure where I finally ended up on the crossover and too lazy to get behind everything and look). Despite their excellent performance mid-bass on up, my Maggies do not measure all that well at LF below 50 Hz or so.
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post #3113 of 3857
5/19/12 at 10:00am
Chris and Don:

Thank you both for sharing your expertise with an interested, but obviously inexperienced, enthusiast.

Chris, I had the first couple of chapters of the Acoustics Handbook sent to my Kindle. It might be a little over my head. But I will try to muddle through.

As for the measuring equipment, no doubt I need it. But I think I'm going to start small given my inexperience and keep the upfront investment low. Omnimic probably won't do me a lot of good if I'm too stupid or lazy to use it right. I'm going to start with RoomEQ Wizard and see how far I get. The software is free, I have two SPL meters already, and a home-built HTPC in my av rack with a 24-bit sound card with line-level inputs and outputs. So, I basically have no upfront costs to break into a more rigorous data collection effort.

You may have bought yourself a blizzard of additional questions, but for now thank you, and everyone else who chimed in, for your thoughts.

Jim
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post #3114 of 3857
5/19/12 at 10:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan_AVS View Post

A few months ago, my receiver Pioneer SC-55 was reset by itself and I lost all the settings (radio stations names). Since that, the problems started.
1. First, it started to lose the network connection for few seconds. Now I'm no more able to connect it to my network. Sometimes, it is connected, but after a few minutes it looses the connection. I have a modem with router for Internet and Fiber TV (Bell Canada). All the other devices connected at my network work fine. It is not able to detect the network but, if I send to it a ping command from a computer, it responds. Also, in the router table I can see it when it is plugged and the router LED is on for that connection. The av receiver option Network Information is disabled and if I tried to display the option Network Setup it displays the message Network Setup. Applying settings. and nothing is happing. I reset the modem and the receiver many times. Sometimes it works, but only for a few minutes.
2. When the receiver is not able to detect the network, the option Firmware update is disabled. It has to be enabled to allow an update via USB. The firmware version is 1-202-086-702-063.
3. When the receiver is not able to detect the network, it also is not able to connect with an iPad via Bluetooth (AS-BT200). On the av display it shows Starting. When it shows Starting nothing works.

I was having a similar problem. Disconnect the Ethernet cable completely. Power off. Unplug the power. Replug and power back up with the Ethernet disconnected. Go into the menu and check the network settings to see if you've unfrozen. Then plug the Ethernet cable back in.
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post #3115 of 3857
5/19/12 at 12:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post


1. Possibly, but get a measurement kit as Chris suggests and it will go faster and be much more fun.

2. Fortunately, the only opinion that matters in the end is yours.

The catch with most audiophile measurement systems is that they don't generally do real-time analysis and in particular distortion analysis well. I cannot speak to your system, and in fact cross over my own mains fairly low, but the FR response won't always (or even usually IME) tell you that the overall distortion is much lower with the mains crossed at 80 Hz instead of 40 Hz (or whatever). Just the FR curves do not tell the whole picture... If you can find a review of your speakers that has THD plots you might be able to see where the LF distortion starts to rise and thus determine the optimal crossover frequency.

Another factor at play, and one my choice makes me live with, is that where the mains are is rarely the best place for the subs. LF response is heavily dependent upon the room, so crossing over a little higher and placing the subwoofer properly can provide a much flatter freqeuncy response.

Get the kit, get the sub, have some fun! - Don

I'd third what Don and ccotenj have said about independent measurement. You have to keep in mind that MCACC has a smoothing factor in the displayed curves, and that like any room correction software, they're predicted effects rather than actual measurements. Also, you can isolate particular interactions (main/center subs, mains and subs, one sub vs. two subs, etc) and measure the room response for all speakers and subs playing simultaneously.

Having went from an MCACC system to Audyssey Pro+Omnimic recently, I would go so far as to say that a user is flying blind without external measurement.
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post #3116 of 3857
5/19/12 at 2:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post


I'. You have to keep in mind that MCACC has a smoothing factor in the displayed curves, and that like any room correction software, they're predicted effects rather than actual measurements.

Really? Are you saying mcacc completely fabricates the reverb after curve?

I doubt that
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post #3117 of 3857
5/19/12 at 2:23pm
Thx for your advice. I tried and it worked for a few minutes and after that it lose the connection. I also tried to change the Ethernet cable.
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post #3118 of 3857
5/19/12 at 2:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan_AVS View Post

Thx for your advice. I tried and it worked for a few minutes and after that it lose the connection. I also tried to change the Ethernet cable.

Id try this, in this order

I'd try resetting the unit,

I woud disconnect all hdmi devices

, reprogramming the firmware

There is a newer firmware, if you search this thread on 203 I think you will find a link to it

I would try that as a last step

Good luck!
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post #3119 of 3857
5/20/12 at 5:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan_AVS View Post

Thx for your advice. I tried and it worked for a few minutes and after that it lose the connection. I also tried to change the Ethernet cable.

Is the AVR unfrozen now? If so and you keep losing the connection, try rebooting your router.
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post #3120 of 3857
5/20/12 at 6:50am
First I reset the router. After that I reset the router at factory settings to delete his cache table with the IPs given to all devices along the time. Sometimes the avr is not frozen and the connection works, but not for long. All the others devices connected at the router work fine. I can't yet define a procedure to solve this problem.
Is strange that when the avr connection it doesn't work, the option Firmaware Update is disable and also the Bluetooth connection doesn't work.
Next week I'll try to update the firmware and I'll tell you my results.
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › The "Official" Pioneer Elite SC-55/SC-57 Owners Thread