or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › The "Official" Pioneer Elite SC-55/SC-57 Owners Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The "Official" Pioneer Elite SC-55/SC-57 Owners Thread - Page 114

post #3391 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by purdyd View Post

speechless! eek.gif

I know redface.gif

I went thru a long agonizing process, you might call it catharsis eek.gif for a year on what to do about the SC-09 going forward. More tomorrow. I've had a long day behind my salamander cabinet redface.gif
post #3392 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

Got a quick question for you 57 or 55 owners - how hot does it get under aggressive load? I'd like to get a comparison with the previous Ice amp based AVR's. and how much space between the top and next shelf would you suggest based on your experience with the heat build-up?
The SC-09 gets quite warm under load, especially with movies, due to the video proc board being located right under the "hood" and we felt at least 9-12" was a good place to start. But I have no idea with the new amps or the different construction layout & possibility of heat sinks which the 09 didn't have.
any help (purdyd, r u out there?) is appreciated.

Don't know if you still need the info, but after watching a movie tonight at -10db... in-cabinet temp leveled out at 86.9F. This is with a good 5" of clearance above, closed back w/80MM fan, front cabinet door open the whole time. Ambient room temp is 72F...
post #3393 of 3982
^^
That helps me in figuring out how much space to "find" wink.gif for the 68, thanks!
post #3394 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

thanks, erick!

for purdyd - there's a reason I asked about temps & it you're right, it has nothing to do with the SC-09 wink.gif

it's time to fess up. I bought a SC-68 to tide me over on the new features for this year & see what goodies next yr brings. I know, some of you may be shocked considering my post history over the last yr or so! redface.gif

Since there were several 68/67owners who have already posted in several threads, I thought one of them should start the Official thread but except for HiFiFun with his 61, no one has stepped up frown.gif

So I'll take on the task and start it!

BTW - the SC-09 is not going anywhere - it stays in my rack just like ccotenj won't part with his Denon A100 wink.gif
I have my reasons for deciding the 09's a keeper that I will be happy to share FWIW.

More to come in Official SC-68/67 thread - just started smile.gif

ah, you were just bored with the existing pio threads so you went out and bought a new one just to have a new thread... tongue.gifbiggrin.gif

we won't say who was the first person to pm me about the a100 when i posted that i was selling almost all my stuff to redo my theater room... wink.gif

seriously, congrats on the new toy steve... i'm looking forward to hear what you have to say about it... i'll stick my head in the new thread when you fire it up... smile.gif
post #3395 of 3982
Anyone know if the amps in SC-57 and SC-67 are identical?

I wonder because Pioneer now claim the 4.ohm speaker support.
post #3396 of 3982
^^^

i would say it's quite likely...

is the whole 4 ohm discussion REALLY going to start again? "real world usage" put this to bed LONG ago....
post #3397 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^
i would say it's quite likely...
is the whole 4 ohm discussion REALLY going to start again? "real world usage" put this to bed LONG ago....

Though the SC-57 does not have any problem with 4 ohm speakers, it would be nice to know if the SC-68 has identical amps, or Pioneer actually has changed something/made the amps better. According to the SC-68 manual, Pioneer claim 140 Watt 8 ohm, 190 Watt 6 ohm and 250 watt 4 ohm.

For SC-57, 140 watt 8 ohm and 180 Watt 6 ohm, no spec for 4 ohm.
post #3398 of 3982
^^

well, I could take the cover off the 68 & check chip numbers but not < 1 week into the warranty wink.gif

I haven't seen anything in print as to the IR amp chips in the 68. I am going to make an assumption that they are the same but with a yr+ experience under their belts Pioneer gives them the 4 ohm rating. Remember, there's always creating marketing perceptions as well as anything real that is different.

I will attempt to find out using a "non-destructive" method wink.gif
post #3399 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

^^
well, I could take the cover off the 68 & check chip numbers but not < 1 week into the warranty wink.gif
I haven't seen anything in print as to the IR amp chips in the 68. I am going to make an assumption that they are the same but with a yr+ experience under their belts Pioneer gives them the 4 ohm rating. Remember, there's always creating marketing perceptions as well as anything real that is different.
I will attempt to find out using a "non-destructive" method wink.gif

Hi

It would be great if you could find that out, thanks !

Maybe Walkamo would know something about it?

I think other also would really like to know.

Do you got SC-68? If, have you noticed anything regarding this?
post #3400 of 3982
^^
I have 5-4 ohm Magnepan planars plus 2-8ohm conventional speakers hooked up to a 68 in a 7.1 setup. With previous Pio Elite flagships, incl the Ice amp'd SC-09, I used a hi-powered 2 ch 300w-8 ohm/600w-4 ohm amp for the fronts and let the AVRs handle the rest. But I took the ext amp out to see how the 68 would handle all the load just by itself. Fronts set to large to stress it even more & everything else set to small. Not only is the top panel much cooler than the SC-09, I played much music and Death Race BD at very loud levels all yesterday. At no time did any protection circuitry kick in smile.gif and the music didn't sound strained. the movie was so bombastic I don't know if I could tell if sound was strained or not wink.gif

Maggies are very inefficient speakers and come alive the more power you feed them. There are many hardcore Maggie owners who use big watt amps with their top models, from 200 to 1000 w 8 ohm rated. The few speakers that could probably stress the amp worse would be electrostats which can dip to <2 ohms at some frequencies. The large Maggies sound best with typically more power than receivers provide. They worked just fine with Ice amps and they work with these.

What more can I tell you. MANY others have used 4 ohm speakers with both the Ice amps and the IR class D design in the 57/55 with no problems, including reviewers of all the previous generations.

I hope this debate is finally put to rest since Pioneer finally gave their blessing to 4 ohm speakers.

I planned to ask Walkamo smile.gif
post #3401 of 3982
I just returned my last Pioneer receiver.

I tried a few years ago (VSX-1019) but returned it because the menus were so illogically split among different buttons on the remote, that I found any features I didn't use all the time would take forever to find. Very poor layout.

Now, I got a SC-57 at 1/2 price, including 6yr warranty. I thought I got a smokin' deal, until I spent 7 minutes tediously entering my Pandora acct info with the remote control, and not knowing whether to hit 'exit' or 'home' when I was done. Whichever it was, I hit the wrong one, and it cancelled my entry. Same thing happened when I tried to enter a 'friendly name' for some inputs. Why can't Pioneer give your an explicit 'SAVE' button, or 'ENTER' button?!? The Zones were confusing, too. And what's up with the GUI? A Marvell upconverting video processor, and the SC-57 GUI comes up on my 60" Kuro in 480i. I saw no way to change this. The Kuro has a beatiful, crisp (albeit slow) HiDef version of this GUI, so seeing it in pale, fuzzy SD quality from a flagship receiver several years later makes me scratch my head. I ended up tearing it out of my home theater within 24hrs of plugging it in. or me, it isn't ONLY about the sound, and the vision - it's the whole experience. I am constantly tweaking my system, so I would not have found the SC-57 to be attractive at 400 dollars. I did think the Android controller app to be an interesting gadget - I was impressed that there was no lag in reaction to my gestures on my tablet. I will probably be forced to buy another Onkyo. Speaker setup flexibility is very important to me, and I will soon have qty(4) subs and a MBM, and I'd rather not have to buy another external piece of kit (SMS-1, BFB Destroyer, etc) if I can help it.
post #3402 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by WHATTHEDILEO View Post

I just returned my last Pioneer receiver.
I tried a few years ago (VSX-1019) but returned it because the menus were so illogically split among different buttons on the remote, that I found any features I didn't use all the time would take forever to find. Very poor layout.
Now, I got a SC-57 at 1/2 price, including 6yr warranty. I thought I got a smokin' deal, until I spent 7 minutes tediously entering my Pandora acct info with the remote control, and not knowing whether to hit 'exit' or 'home' when I was done. Whichever it was, I hit the wrong one, and it cancelled my entry. Same thing happened when I tried to enter a 'friendly name' for some inputs. Why can't Pioneer give your an explicit 'SAVE' button, or 'ENTER' button?!? The Zones were confusing, too. And what's up with the GUI? A Marvell upconverting video processor, and the SC-57 GUI comes up on my 60" Kuro in 480i. I saw no way to change this. The Kuro has a beatiful, crisp (albeit slow) HiDef version of this GUI, so seeing it in pale, fuzzy SD quality from a flagship receiver several years later makes me scratch my head. I ended up tearing it out of my home theater within 24hrs of plugging it in. or me, it isn't ONLY about the sound, and the vision - it's the whole experience. I am constantly tweaking my system, so I would not have found the SC-57 to be attractive at 400 dollars. I did think the Android controller app to be an interesting gadget - I was impressed that there was no lag in reaction to my gestures on my tablet. I will probably be forced to buy another Onkyo. Speaker setup flexibility is very important to me, and I will soon have qty(4) subs and a MBM, and I'd rather not have to buy another external piece of kit (SMS-1, BFB Destroyer, etc) if I can help it.

While I agree that Pioneer's UI is sub-par, I don't know why you're having problems renaming inputs or doing network setup. I had no problem with that whatsoever. That worked quite well for me when I setup the SC55. My problem, aside from the fact that aside from initial setup, there's no GUI display, is that it's terribly unclear what each mode does and how those modes work together.

I do think that the network radio UI is completely unusable.

Personally, aside from feeding a GUI to the TV, I think all these receivers should be using a smartphone type display on the unit itself instead of the pre-defined displays that they all use, especially at the high end. If they used bitmapped displays, they would be much easier to upgrade with new features. What's the point of some of the indicators if you can only see them when you're standing 6" in front of the receiver? The remote control is also a joke. the buttons light up, but not the labeling above each button that tells you what the button is for. I also have a problem with the pre-labeling of inputs - I think it causes more confusion, especially if you elect to use them differently because now the labels on the remote control no longer make any sense. And there are other issues, but every receiver in its class does pretty much the same thing from what I've observed. There's no one thinking out of the box in terms of how the user interacts with the receiver and I think that's one of the reasons why home theatre audio sales are actually quite cruddy.
post #3403 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_alpha View Post

Had some unsettled weather last night that eventually turned into a full blown thunderstorm. Before the thunderstorm really hit, my SC-57 powered off on its own (all my other electronics and TV stayed on), and started blinking the blue advanced MCACC light. The standby light would then not come on around the power button, and the unit wouldn't power up any more. I unplugged it and plan to try it again tonight when I get home from work.
I had a quick look in the manual, and it appears as though the flashing MCACC light (the only thing lighting up on the AVR) is indicative of something serious, and it recommends getting in touch with service people.
Has anyone else experienced this? If so, were you able to correct the issue yourself? Any suggestions?
If my AVR did get zapped, does anyone know of a rock-solid surge protector I can pick up to try and avoid a repeat in the future. Currently, I have all my electronics hooked up to a fairly cheap Monster power bar with surge protection. If I can't count on something like that for surge protection, I'm willing to spend more to get something more effective, but I'm not looking for any golden-ear quackery about improved sound, etc.
Thanks,
JD

This happened to me 3 times with my VSX-52TX. Every few years a storm, or even just a small power surge that might blink the electricity off for a second would reset the unit. The first time it blew the transformers, which Pioneer fixed under warranty. The next two times they did not. After the third time I basically gave the thing away, I'm sick of paying the bench fees and repair bills. I was unable to get it back up doing a factory reset. I just got an SC-55 to replace the 52TX and got rid of my Home Depot-bought power strip with surge suppression and paid for a more robust one from the audio store. It's worth noting none of my other electronics on the same strip were affected...tv, cable box and xBox/PS3. Crossing my fingers it doesn't happen again.
post #3404 of 3982
We have very frequent power glitches. I use APC Back-Ups pretty much everywhere (all electronics save the power amps) and they have been lifesavers. I have found a surge strip is not enough when power flickers on and off rapidly; a lot of the surge protection built into components does not help when the power glitches on/off/on in under a second.
post #3405 of 3982
I had started experiencing distortion in my front 3 chanels during loud action movies a few weeks ago with my SC-57. I'm also hearing a random snapping sound during quiet scenes as well. It's occuring on all inputs with various sources. So, i did the following.

1. I replaced all HDMI cables - still heard the distortion
2. Took the SC-57 out and hooked up my 94TXH - distorion again
3. Reconnected the 57 and connected the surround left speaker to the center input since there is no distortion on the SL speaker - distortion again
4. Re-wired my entire system with new 12 guage wire - distortion continued

What is bafling me is my #3 test. If I had possibly blown the tweeter in my center causing distortion, it would not have been heard in the SL speaker, which is leading me to believe it's an amp problem. However, my 94TXH was giving me the same results so I'm not convinced it the amp. I'm at a total loss. Any suggestions?
post #3406 of 3982
What is the source of your content? If it is a blu-ray player, or directv perhaps those boxes are the source of the issue?
post #3407 of 3982
Also, is it possible something in your house is generating RFI/EMI that is coupling into the system? Fridge or bad light ballast, even a bad switch that is arcing mor than usual? One of the most annoying noise problems (static sound) turned out to be a loose wire on a light switch in the room next door. It was "sizzling" away and causing noise in the system. Good thing, as it could have started a fire!
post #3408 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

Also, is it possible something in your house is generating RFI/EMI that is coupling into the system? Fridge or bad light ballast, even a bad switch that is arcing mor than usual? One of the most annoying noise problems (static sound) turned out to be a loose wire on a light switch in the room next door. It was "sizzling" away and causing noise in the system. Good thing, as it could have started a fire!

This may very well be some kind of electrical issue. I have the SC-57 plugged into a surge protector/power strip but I'm wondering now if the outlet it's plugged into may be the culprit. I'm going to try plugging the SC-57 into another outlet directly and see what happens.
post #3409 of 3982
ok, completely unscientific test SC55 in a cabinet 5" above it door open driving 5 speakers 3 maggies 4 ohm and 2 conventional 8 ohm rear speakers
VSX1014 essentially out in the open driving 5 speakers, 8 ohms

VSX1014 on, not driving anything


SC55 standby


SC55 on



VSX1014 driving loud music


SC55 driving the same music


sorry this wasn't maxed out as it hurt my ears to be in the same room, next time i will wear ear muffs, i suppose.....
post #3410 of 3982
^^
great stuff, purdyd

I haven't done measurements as you have but I can say the SC-68 & I'm sure the 57 too, is a lot cooler than the 09 under load.

I estimated the 09 when loaded with both loud audio & passing video could get 110-115-120 deg F. I based that on the non-scientific hands-on approach wink.gif the old rule of thumb that most people can keep their hands on a hot surface up to the 130-140 deg range, then most would pull away. My career took me into hot industrial areas so you get used to ballpark estimating temps. I thought the 09 got hot but below that pain threshold. Not scientific, I know redface.gif Others early on the 09 thread (a longgg time ago wink.gif) did temp measurements, and it was close to what I thought. But the 68 is definitely cooler, even under load, it's warm but not that warm. The new amp design, keeping the fan on, and maybe better airflow patterns at work smile.gif Could also be due to placement, altho mine is on an open shelf with 10" space above it. Sideflow was open on the left where the fans are & closed on the right, so exhaust had to migrate upwards...could also be a factor.

Either way, thanks for taking the time to settle it with real testing.
Edited by ss9001 - 8/1/12 at 5:03am
post #3411 of 3982
How do you check the SC-57 to see if it's set to 8 ohms?
post #3412 of 3982
^^
uh, you don't

Pioneer did away with the switch on the rear panel to change impedance a long time ago, meaning at least several years (?). And there has never been any display of selected impedance in a menu even when they did. and all the switch did, when they had it, was current limit the amps so it was a "feel good" measure but served no practical utility other than reduce the times the amp would go into protect-mode wink.gif

I'm not even sure what good that info would do you. The amp is a fixed entity, there is nothing to change it's impedance. It produces the power it produces to whatever speaker load is connected.
post #3413 of 3982
The switch on most if not all limits the rail voltage in anything other than 8 ohm and with the product either being advertised 4 ohm compatible or THX approved it will take the 4 ohm load without worries.
post #3414 of 3982
Thanks guys. On my 94TXH you could change the ohms on start up if you wanted to. I was just curious.
post #3415 of 3982
Please forgive my very limited knowledge on this subject, as I'm just getting started.

I'm having trouble with my subwoofer connected to my SC-68 with a single RCA cable along with a single pair of bi-amped speakers.

The Full Auto MDACC recognizes the setup as it plays test tones to all three speakers when the subwoofer is connected to the SUBWOOFER 1 port in the PREOUT section of the SC-68.

I was never successful with the SUBWOOFER port located above the FM UNBAL port.

I have tried nearly every playback mode i can find with CDs and cannot get the subwoofer to fire unless I play Blu-Ray movies or SACDs.

It seems the system is configured for multichannel output only.

What is the basic fundamental concept I am missing?
post #3416 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by vercingetorix View Post

Please forgive my very limited knowledge on this subject, as I'm just getting started.
I'm having trouble with my subwoofer connected to my SC-68 with a single RCA cable along with a single pair of bi-amped speakers.
The Full Auto MDACC recognizes the setup as it plays test tones to all three speakers when the subwoofer is connected to the SUBWOOFER 1 port in the PREOUT section of the SC-68.
I was never successful with the SUBWOOFER port located above the FM UNBAL port.
I have tried nearly every playback mode i can find with CDs and cannot get the subwoofer to fire unless I play Blu-Ray movies or SACDs.
It seems the system is configured for multichannel output only.
What is the basic fundamental concept I am missing?

Have you tried setting up everything in normal mode and then bi-amp the speakers seems like I read a thread somewhere on another forum where the OP had to do this in order to get things right.
Not owning the AVR yet maybe someone here could steer you to the proper menu and setup .
post #3417 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by vercingetorix View Post

I'm having trouble with my subwoofer connected to my SC-68 with a single RCA cable along with a single pair of bi-amped speakers. I was never successful with the SUBWOOFER port located above the FM UNBAL port. What is the basic fundamental concept I am missing?

First - if you look closely at the rear panel, the sub port above FM is part of the Zone 2 connections. That's why it didn't work wink.gif For Zone 1, you have to use the ports labeled Sub 1 & Sub 2 in the Preamp group.

Next - did you try setting your sub to "Plus" in the manual speaker setup menu?
That should do it.

As long as your 2 fronts are set as Large and have no surrounds or center, you will never hear your sub unless there is a dedicated .1 LFE track on the disc. That's why you hear it with SACD/BD but not CD's.

You can set the fronts to Small with a crossover of 50 or 80 Hz, or set the sub to Plus, sometimes called double-bass. That is the only way you'll get the sub to be used for 2 channel music, even adding Dolby PLIIx surround won't kick it in, unless your have the sub available for re-directed bass.

I'm not sure what else to suggest you try. Regardless if you use Normal or one of the Bi-amp modes, as long as your fronts are Large, you won't get any sub activity unless it's a 5.1/7.1 disc. Your only other option is to use Plus. That forces bass frequencies to be sent to both your fronts & the sub. You may also need to set the crossover in this case: 50 to 80 Hz is good choice for your B&W 800's.

If you already have the sub set to Plus, then something else is going on. Let us know. More screenshots may help.

Hang in there, it's a learning curve but you'll get it smile.gif
Edited by ss9001 - 8/4/12 at 8:34am
post #3418 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

First - if you look closely at the rear panel, the sub port above FM is part of the Zone 2 connections. That's why it didn't work wink.gif For Zone 1, you have to use the ports labeled Sub 1 & Sub 2 in the Preamp group.
Next - did you try setting your sub to "Plus" in the manual speaker setup menu?
That should do it.
As long as your 2 fronts are set as Large and have no surrounds or center, you will never hear your sub unless there is a dedicated .1 LFE track on the disc. That's why you hear it with SACD/BD but not CD's.
You can set the fronts to Small with a crossover of 50 or 80 Hz, or set the sub to Plus, sometimes called double-bass. That is the only way you'll get the sub to be used for 2 channel music, even adding Dolby PLIIx surround won't kick it in, unless your have the sub available for re-directed bass.
I'm not sure what else to suggest you try. Regardless if you use Normal or one of the Bi-amp modes, as long as your fronts are Large, you won't get any sub activity unless it's a 5.1/7.1 disc. Your only other option is to use Plus. That forces bass frequencies to be sent to both your fronts & the sub. You may also need to set the crossover in this case: 50 to 80 Hz is good choice for your B&W 800's.
If you already have the sub set to Plus, then something else is going on. Let us know. More screenshots may help.
Hang in there, it's a learning curve but you'll get it smile.gif

good advice - some the subtleties of bass management are not obvious and I can remember hooking up my sub for a week after I moved it wondering why nothing ever came out? although if the OP is getting sound out in mch, the fronts set to large/or sub+ is the reason no 2 ch subwoofer

this is where I think Pioneer and others (all?) could do a better job, that is handling 2 channel and multi channel configurations

they should have provided a multi channel and two channel speaker setup that switched automatically

specifically, the crossover frequency

so you could run 80 Hz or higher with mch and 50 Hz with 2 channel and leave the front set to small - this assumes that you would have two large full range speakers along with some smaller center and surrounds, which imagine a lot of people have
post #3419 of 3982
For RS232 or IP commands, for the Home Media Gallery.... Looking for a command to determine the "class". Using the remote in the HMG, one can hit class in order to select something from A to G, and then a number to pick a saved slot. That's great, except, from IP control, one does not know what slot is currently selected as no feedback is provided near as I can tell. It's only on the screen.

I was hoping to make the whole saved station thing much more user friendly which some remote control programs, however, if one cannot determine the slot currently selected (A-G), I see no way to do this.

I see the tuner section has a command ?PR to select the tuners current class, but, this appears to not match the HMG class so doesn't seem to work.

Most of the IP commands work well, so, surprised this one is missing. Perhaps an oversight, but, maybe it's there. Does anyone know of a way to capture the current class (A-G) via IP commands?
post #3420 of 3982
I have the SC-55, but I can get a good deal on the Onkyo 3009 this weekend only
I will not be using it for music
I want the clearest, most dynamic movie sound (especially dialogue)
Will it be worth it to upgrade on sound quality alone?
Thanks
Jakob
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Receivers, Amps, and Processors
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › The "Official" Pioneer Elite SC-55/SC-57 Owners Thread