Originally Posted by zoetmb
I didn't buy the receiver at bankruptcy prices - I paid full price. And this wasn't a low-end receiver for $200-$300 that's priced way below any level that we have a right to expect, just because Chinese manufacturing has driven down costs.
and I paid $5700 for the SC-09; the cost of your SC-57 PALES by comparison, you are not even in the same ballpark as what susano owners paid across the globe & didn't get upgrades for features that were introduced 6 mo later! If anyone had a reason to complain, it was us!
and you're bitching about a free
phone app that isn't needed for the functioning of the receiver you bought & somehow that's egregious lack of customer service?
please...give me a break!
let me ask you something...you said you're a software developer.
do you work for free?
does you or your company provide free updates every year? not even Microsoft does that; want a new windows OS? you pay!!
the last time I checked, Symantics, McAfee, TrendMicro, even companies like E-set, CHARGE EVERY YEAR to renew their antivirus software just so it can updated with new definition files. No pay, no updates. Why do you feel you are entitled
to free updates on a one-time purchase? I remember the days where you bought an anti-virus program ONCE, then got "free" updates...those days are long gone, like back in the late 90's. It's been paid for use for a very long time.
I repeat, instead of taking 10-15 min each post to bitch about Pioneer, which accomplished NOTHING, why don't you try to do something business-like, professional, and contact Walkamo by PM or by email with your issues, give him ammunition so he can try to convince Japan, just like all Japanese CE US marketing divisions have to do. Instead of feeling ENTITLED to free app upgrades for as long as you own the receiver, offer to PAY Pioneer an annual upgrade fee IF they would offer app updates on each model. Give a business reason for Pioneer to consider it and he has something concrete to take to Japan to look at the feasibility.
Plus you have ignored the hardware-software interface issue. Pioneer doesn't make their DSP's, no CE company does. They have to buy pre-encoded processors with embedded software already on them. The only thing truly proprietary is 1 of the 3 DSP's has the code for MCACC. The others are standard off-the-shelf processors or modded variations thereof. The cost to write customized code for a new app may be cost prohibitive with the thin profits these companies make on receivers, even at MSRP.
You strike me as someone who feels entitled as a consumer, and I appreciate that, believe me. But you seem to want to ignore the economic side of the equation, just because you think Pioneer or (fill in the blank company) owes you something.
Chris Walker (Walkamo) has already said on this forum, in this thread I think, that the version of phone apps is tied to a specific hardware platform (DSP code). That may seem unbelievable to you, being a developer in the PC world, where the CPU does the work for an unlimited number of applications, but in the receiver world, these are NOT COMPUTERS, no matter how you want them to be. They are computer-like, yes, but they do not have CPU's and software per se. They use firmware/software embedded by the DSP manufacturer on prefabricated, preprogrammed chips and Pioneer is probably not free to customize the code beyond a certain point. And it's very likely that the DSP's are pretty well used up running existing processes, formats, and supporting existing apps.If you think the CE companies write their own code for Dolby, dts, THX, etc you are very wrong! They do not, it's all on the chip, from the mfg. All the CE company does is activate or de-activate specific code depending on the licenses they pay for to the companies providing the code for decoders & processing. The same chip may be used by Denon & Pioneer, Pioneer pays THX a license fee, and they can activate the code that adds THX processing. Denon may choose not to pay THX so they have to de-activate the code.
IF you and like-minded owners ask Pioneer in a professional manner to look at feasibility of app upgrades if you are willing to pay for them, that will give them more incentive to look into it.
How many other receiver companies are upgrading their phone apps for free? If Denon, Onkyo, Yamaha are doing it, and Pioneer isn't, then you have a legit point. If they are not, then you are asking the company to provide and pay for this at their own expense when none of their competition is doing it either. In that case, you just want something for nothing.
Unless you can provide hard evidence that Pioneer's competition is keeping old models current with the latest phones for free for longer than 1 year
, my opinion of your position & both of you is unchanged
If you can provide that evidence, please post it here, links and/or posts. If that's the case, prove it and I'll be happy to say you guys have a legit issue. Otherwise, stop complaining.
The difference between you guys wanting app upgrades and our complaints with the Susano SC-09 situation is -
- we were asking for something that Denon was doing for the owners of their ultra-expensive AVR & prepro and we told Pioneer we were willing to PAY $1000-1200 FOR IT, similar to what Denon was charging for their upgrade.
While you guys want Pioneer to kick in free upgrades for an un-specified number of years just because you think you're entitled to it