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The "Official" Pioneer Elite SC-55/SC-57 Owners Thread - Page 127

post #3781 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

I suggest getting a test disc that has a low frequency sweep on it and putting your ear next to the sub to see if it puts out a signal. Make sure the sub is plugged into the sub RCA jack on the SC55. If you don't have clear access to the back panel and you're doing it by feel, it's easy to plug the cable into the wrong jack. Also, many subs have level controls, either physical or electronic, so make sure it's turned up a bit.

+1 to all your suggestions
post #3782 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

^^

now I've spent > 1 hr on this reply looking up stuff for you on a product I've never used nor would use wink.gif but unless you have a bad cable (very possible), the Y connector isn't making good contact (possible), blew the amp (possible), blew the sub preamp output on the receiver, or receiver was defective (possible) you have something weird in your setup. I have used MCACC for 10 years, and it's never failed to detect my subs. there was no magic setting I had to do, it just worked in Auto MCACC. the only times I lost output to the subs was with a cable I have that very occasionally shorted out in one connector.

I was heading down the same path here but met with resistance. (no pun intended) The poorly conceived wiring job would seem to be the most likely suspect.

I'm wondering if LFE attenuate might play into this somewhere as well. Worth a check I suppose.
Edited by Terrya - 2/10/13 at 1:42pm
post #3783 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrya View Post

I was heading down the same path here but met with resistance. (no pun intended) The poorly conceived wiring job would seem to be the most likely suspect...I'm wondering if LFE attenuate might play into this somewhere as well. Worth a check I suppose.

I know wink.gif

I forgot about the LFE attentuate setting. if this was open box, then the store or anyone could have fiddled with the audio settings.

Dobes49 - go into Audio Parameters menu and make sure LFE Attenuate is not set to a negative dB number. by default, I think its supposed to be 0 dB.
Edited by ss9001 - 2/10/13 at 3:13pm
post #3784 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

I know wink.gif

I forgot about the LFE attentuate setting. if this was open box, then the store or anyone could have fiddled with the audio settings.

Dobes49 - go into Audio Parameters menu and make sure LFE Attenuate is not set to a negative dB number. by default, I think its supposed to be 0 dB.

Thanks to you and Terrya. I checked and LFE is at 0 dB. I think you may be on to something regarding the Reverse Phase message. I know that the mic is sensitive to blockage in the sound path, which can give some goofy results. This room has a 12 foot ceiling, and there is a triple sliding door directly behind (3 feet from) the couch, so I am thinking the mic may be picking up a lot of reflected sound. The speakers sound great, so I don't think I will worry about that too much. Thanks for the discussion and suggestions regarding the sub. I will investigate further and report back what I find.
post #3785 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobes49 View Post

Thanks to you and Terrya. I checked and LFE is at 0 dB. I think you may be on to something regarding the Reverse Phase message. I know that the mic is sensitive to blockage in the sound path, which can give some goofy results. This room has a 12 foot ceiling, and there is a triple sliding door directly behind (3 feet from) the couch, so I am thinking the mic may be picking up a lot of reflected sound. The speakers sound great, so I don't think I will worry about that too much. Thanks for the discussion and suggestions regarding the sub. I will investigate further and report back what I find.

Here's the experiment you might want to try. The sub manual must describe how to configure for conventional single LFE input, right? Do that. Then pull the Y from the back of the receiver and plug the red cable of your double cable directly into the sub 1 output, leaving the black cable dangling. Plug the red cable only into the LFE input on the sub, leaving the black cable dangling. Then run your tests. If this fails try plugging into the receiver's sub 2 output only with the red cable and test again.

That's a start anyway.
Edited by Terrya - 2/10/13 at 5:45pm
post #3786 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by jake51 View Post

So I bought an used SC-57...
Bad move: The thing is broken mad.gif
What can be wrong when it shows no picture from the connected source the first time I turn it on?
I have to turn it off and then turn it off again
After that, no problems
But then when I turn it off it can take up to five seconds to turn completely off (the lights in the display doesn't go off at the same time)
Weird, right...
At least there is warranty on it
But what is causing this behaviour?
Thanks
Jakob

Disconnect all of the HDMI inputs and outputs. Unplug the receiver. Plug in the receiver, re-connect all of the HDMI connections and turn it on. That might help.

BTW, mine also takes about 5 seconds to completely turn off.
post #3787 of 3982
I'll try that tonight, thanks
post #3788 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by jake51 View Post

I'll try that tonight, thanks

Also make sure "Network Standby" is turned off. As soon as I shut it off all those problems went away...
post #3789 of 3982
*** DTS HD HR problem ***


Hi guys!

Please forgive me my poor english...

For last few days I have Pioneer SC-LX76 (european model) - I think, it is the same, as ELITE SC-67.


My blu-ray player is Dune BD Prime 3.0. It is connected via HDMI to the Pioneer AVR. The Dune is configured to bitstream sound.

Today, playing James Bond "Quantum of Solace" i noticed, that my Pioneer can't decode DTS HD HR sound. There was no sound from speakers at all. Fortunatelly I have my old AVR - Yamaha RX-V1067. So, I swapped AVRs, to check if the problem still persists. It turned out, that 3 years old Yamaha has no problem with playing DTS HD HD sound.

Then i made some few tests and I can say, that Pioneer can't play any blu-ray disc with DTS HD HR sound. I tested 4 movies and got same problem - James Bond (I have no another blu-rays with DTS HD HR):
- Quantum of Solace
- The World is Not Enough
- Thunderball
- Dr. No

Of course Yamaha can play them all.

Pioneer can play all other HD formats. I checked DTS HD Master, Dolby True HD, Flac 24/192.

Can anybody confirm this issue? Or maybe this strange problem is caused by Dune blu-ray player. I have never had such problem using my Yamaha (connected to Dune). If I can't find the way how to fix this problem, I think I will have to return Pioneer back to the shop.


I look forward your replies.


Best Regards!

Robert
post #3790 of 3982
Hi guys,

I have a lx 85, eu model of sc 57 and monitor audio rx6 speakers (6 ohms). Recently, I bought monitor audio rx8 speakers which are 4 ohms. They havent arrived yet.

But there is a question in my mind. Should I upgrade to lx 86 (sc 68) due to its 4 ohms support or will my sc 57 handle rx8 speakers?

PS: I mostly use my avr between -20 and 0 dB. I love noise.
post #3791 of 3982
By the way, I hear a buzzing noise from my lx 85 when it is on stand-by. Is that a problem?

It does not increase or decrease, just a stable buzzing noise. When I pull the plug out of the wall, the sound gradually goes down and over. It is the same noise as phone chargers plugged into wall w/o phone.

I hope I could explain what I want to biggrin.gif
post #3792 of 3982
Double posted the last one. Sorry
post #3793 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrya View Post

Here's the experiment you might want to try. The sub manual must describe how to configure for conventional single LFE input, right? Do that. Then pull the Y from the back of the receiver and plug the red cable of your double cable directly into the sub 1 output, leaving the black cable dangling. Plug the red cable only into the LFE input on the sub, leaving the black cable dangling. Then run your tests. If this fails try plugging into the receiver's sub 2 output only with the red cable and test again.

That's a start anyway.

I have time to run through that tomorrow. I don't have the sub manual, but, lo and behold, there is an AVS thread for Jamo MPA 100 sub amps, so maybe I can get some insight there. I did see there that it is common for those amps to need their caps replaced. Regarding LFE, wouldn't setting at a negative number increase the sub output (attenuate = reduce). I have read that somewhere. Thanks again.
post #3794 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobes49 View Post

I have time to run through that tomorrow. I don't have the sub manual, but, lo and behold, there is an AVS thread for Jamo MPA 100 sub amps, so maybe I can get some insight there. I did see there that it is common for those amps to need their caps replaced. Regarding LFE, wouldn't setting at a negative number increase the sub output (attenuate = reduce). I have read that somewhere. Thanks again.

Not in this case. The default value of 0db applies no attenuation. Attenuation is measured in db, so for example, selecting -5db attenuates (reduces) the sound level by 5db. Selecting -10db reduces the sound level by 10db. And so on.
post #3795 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobes49 View Post

I have time to run through that tomorrow. I don't have the sub manual, but, lo and behold, there is an AVS thread for Jamo MPA 100 sub amps, so maybe I can get some insight there. I did see there that it is common for those amps to need their caps replaced. Regarding LFE, wouldn't setting at a negative number increase the sub output (attenuate = reduce). I have read that somewhere. Thanks again.

Now that I know what sub you are using and I've looked at the manual, I'm wondering how you bridged it. Bridging for line input is simply flipping the switch to mono and nothing more. Once this is done, a single connection from the LFE sub output on your receiver to the left line input on the sub is all that is required. Nothing should be done at the speaker level inputs for this configuration.
post #3796 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by sezgin90 View Post

By the way, I hear a buzzing noise from my lx 85 when it is on stand-by. Is that a problem?

It does not increase or decrease, just a stable buzzing noise. When I pull the plug out of the wall, the sound gradually goes down and over. It is the same noise as phone chargers plugged into wall w/o phone.

I hope I could explain what I want to biggrin.gif

It does have a fan, perhaps that is what you are hearing? It is on the left side as you look at the front

if you are hearing phone chargers, you have good hearing and you could be hearing a similar thing from the receiver

you should not have a problem with 4 ohm speakers
post #3797 of 3982
Hello and need some help. I just got some headphones and want to use them for late night listening on my SC-55. When I plug the headphones in, my speakers stay on and also switch to stereo? How do I have just the sound come out of the headphones and not both? Thanks!!
post #3798 of 3982
Hi can anyone tell me if sc 55 has pass through
post #3799 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigham16 View Post

Hello and need some help. I just got some headphones and want to use them for late night listening on my SC-55. When I plug the headphones in, my speakers stay on and also switch to stereo? How do I have just the sound come out of the headphones and not both? Thanks!!

That doesn't sound right.
post #3800 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by realnt View Post

Hi can anyone tell me if sc 55 has pass through

By pass through do you mean a direct mode, bypassing internal tone controls etc?

The wording in the manual isn't definitive. Direct mode plays with the least modification next to Pure Direct. Direct considers room calibration, while Pure Direct does not. Pure Direct is described as using "only minimal digital treatment."
post #3801 of 3982
i guess what i am asking is does it have standby through. so i could watch tv without receiver being on.
post #3802 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by realnt View Post

i guess what i am asking is does it have standby through. so i could watch tv without receiver being on.

Hm. That's a good question.
post #3803 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrya View Post

Now that I know what sub you are using and I've looked at the manual, I'm wondering how you bridged it. Bridging for line input is simply flipping the switch to mono and nothing more. Once this is done, a single connection from the LFE sub output on your receiver to the left line input on the sub is all that is required. Nothing should be done at the speaker level inputs for this configuration.

I think I have tried what you suggest. Here is a quick summary of what I have tried so far: I apologize for the repetition. I came out of the receiver sub out (low level) with an RCA Y to a double RCA cable. I went into my Jamo MPA-100 sub amp with the two RCA cables (right and left low level inputs). I came out of the sub amp with one speaker level two conductor speaker wire (sub amp set to Bridge) to the sub speaker without using the Jamo crossover. At first I wired the two voice coils in parallel, but when that did not work, I wired them in series. It still did not work.

I tried the speaker wires connected first to the red and black of one of the sub amp (set to Bridge) outs and then to the red of one out and the black of the other out - this appears to be the way that Crutchfield suggests connecting the single wire to a DVC speaker (with coils connected in series). Neither way gave any sound. I tried putting in the Jamo crossover with a full speaker feed from a different receiver, and routed out of the crossover to both the sub speaker and to the satellite speaker. The satellite speaker worked, but the sub still had no sound. I tried the trick of connecting each of the voice coils to a 9V battery and neither one moved the cone or made a sound. I am going to take the speaker to have it checked with a multi-meter(?) to see if the voice coils are OK.
post #3804 of 3982
Do you use headphones? If so, does it automatically turn the speakers off and just sound through headphones? This is what I thought would happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrya View Post

That doesn't sound right.
post #3805 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigham16 View Post

Do you use headphones? If so, does it automatically turn the speakers off and just sound through headphones? This is what I thought would happen.

The SC55 I'm working with is a friends who passed away a month ago. I'm helping his wife to better understand how to operate it and make it as simple as possible. So I haven't had an opportunity to try the headphone out, but I've been studying the manual pretty extensively lately, and it looks like the typical design where the main speakers shut down when the headphone output is engaged. I haven't found anything in the settings that would change this. I suspect additional zones would keep playing, but the mains would (should) not.

I may have a chance to try phones this weekend as I do more work on the system.
post #3806 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobes49 View Post

I think I have tried what you suggest. Here is a quick summary of what I have tried so far: I apologize for the repetition. I came out of the receiver sub out (low level) with an RCA Y to a double RCA cable. I went into my Jamo MPA-100 sub amp with the two RCA cables (right and left low level inputs). I came out of the sub amp with one speaker level two conductor speaker wire (sub amp set to Bridge) to the sub speaker without using the Jamo crossover. At first I wired the two voice coils in parallel, but when that did not work, I wired them in series. It still did not work.

I tried the speaker wires connected first to the red and black of one of the sub amp (set to Bridge) outs and then to the red of one out and the black of the other out - this appears to be the way that Crutchfield suggests connecting the single wire to a DVC speaker (with coils connected in series). Neither way gave any sound. I tried putting in the Jamo crossover with a full speaker feed from a different receiver, and routed out of the crossover to both the sub speaker and to the satellite speaker. The satellite speaker worked, but the sub still had no sound. I tried the trick of connecting each of the voice coils to a 9V battery and neither one moved the cone or made a sound. I am going to take the speaker to have it checked with a multi-meter(?) to see if the voice coils are OK.

I can't speak for others here, but from where I'm sitting I'd say you may have fried your drivers with an unconventional wiring setup. What you've done may make sense to you, but it makes no sense to me. I suspect I'm not alone. What you are describing sounds like a prescription for equipment failure. There's no reason to complicate a simple sub connection by rewiring it. It's a simple hookup. LFE out via single RCA interconnect to the left channel input, flip the switch to mono, and play. In this configuration the output from the amp is (internally) bridged to mono, as is the sub input by simply flipping the stereo/mono switch on the back of the unit to mono.

To address more directly what you've said here, based on what I know about sub wiring and a review of what I believe to be the manual for this sub:

I came out of the receiver sub out (low level) with an RCA Y to a double RCA cable,

There would be no good reason for the Y cable in this case. Most often, the more direct the signal path the better the audio quality. You're sending a mono signal to a bridged subwoofer. The Y connector does nothing but add more wire, the result of which is most likely a degraded signal (although to what degree we do not know)

I went into my Jamo MPA-100 sub amp with the two RCA cables (right and left low level inputs).

The sub has a mono switch. Flip the switch to mono, bridging the sub, and use only one input.

I came out of the sub amp with one speaker level two conductor speaker wire (sub amp set to Bridge) to the sub speaker without using the Jamo crossover.

Um, is there are switch that says "Bridge" or are you just referring to your wiring method when you say "sub amp set to Bridge." This is another mistake. There is no reason for external speaker level bridging here. The mono/stereo switch takes care of this.

At first I wired the two voice coils in parallel, but when that did not work, I wired them in series. It still did not work.

Again, these jumpers are not necessary.

I tried the speaker wires connected first to the red and black of one of the sub amp (set to Bridge) outs and then to the red of one out and the black of the other out - this appears to be the way that Crutchfield suggests connecting the single wire to a DVC speaker (with coils connected in series). Neither way gave any sound.


I don't understand what you're talking about here. Can you provide a link to the Crutchfield documentation you're referencing?
Edited by Terrya - 2/14/13 at 8:55am
post #3807 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrya View Post

I can't speak for others here, but from where I'm sitting I'd say you may have fried your drivers with an unconventional wiring setup. What you've done may make sense to you, but it makes no sense to me. I suspect I'm not alone. What you are describing sounds like a prescription for equipment failure. There's no reason to complicate a simple sub connection by rewiring it. It's a simple hookup. LFE out via single RCA interconnect to the left channel input, flip the switch to mono, and play. In this configuration the output from the amp is (internally) bridged to mono, as is the sub input by simply flipping the stereo/mono switch on the back of the unit to mono.

To address more directly what you've said here, based on what I know about sub wiring and a review of what I believe to be the manual for this sub:

I came out of the receiver sub out (low level) with an RCA Y to a double RCA cable,

There would be no good reason for the Y cable in this case. Most often, the more direct the signal path the better the audio quality. You're sending a mono signal to a bridged subwoofer. The Y connector does nothing but add more wire, the result of which is most likely a degraded signal (although to what degree we do not know)

I went into my Jamo MPA-100 sub amp with the two RCA cables (right and left low level inputs).

The sub has a mono switch. Flip the switch to mono, bridging the sub, and use only one input.

I came out of the sub amp with one speaker level two conductor speaker wire (sub amp set to Bridge) to the sub speaker without using the Jamo crossover.

Um, is there are switch that says "Bridge" or are you just referring to your wiring method when you say "sub amp set to Bridge." This is another mistake. There is no reason for external speaker level bridging here. The mono/stereo switch takes care of this.

At first I wired the two voice coils in parallel, but when that did not work, I wired them in series. It still did not work.

Again, these jumpers are not necessary.

I tried the speaker wires connected first to the red and black of one of the sub amp (set to Bridge) outs and then to the red of one out and the black of the other out - this appears to be the way that Crutchfield suggests connecting the single wire to a DVC speaker (with coils connected in series). Neither way gave any sound.


I don't understand what you're talking about here.

Wiring a sub is far simpler than what you have been describing.

Since the sub amp has right and left input, I figured that splitting the SC-55 output in two and putting these now identical signals into each side of the sub amp input would be OK (figuring heavier conductor=better passage of the musical information). If I had run a four conductor speaker wire to the sub speaker, set the sub amp switch to Stereo and connected a pair to each of the voice coils, I would have probably been OK. Since I had only fished a two conductor speaker wire to the speaker, I set the sub amp switch to Bridge and connected it to the speaker. Since the speaker is a double voice coil speaker with 4 ohm right and left inputs, I wired the two coils in series as per Crutchfield's schematic. Theoretically, I figured both coils would be producing the same sound. Unfortunately, I think I fried the coils when I first wired the two coils in parallel. That would have put the impedance at 2 ohms, I think, boosting the current to the voice coils(?).

Since I was using a dedicated sub amp with adjustable crossover built in, I did not use the Jamo crossover, which was furnished in case the user wanted to separate out the low frequency signal from regular stereo speaker feeds and redirect to this sub speaker. As far as the last experiment, I took a totally different sound system, connected a speaker wire to the crossover speaker level input. I connected the crossover upper frequency output to a full range speaker and the sub output to the Jamo subwoofer speaker. The full range speaker put out sound, but the sub speaker did not. Thank you for your comments. I plan to replace the sub speaker with a single coil and simplify this.
post #3808 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobes49 View Post

Since the sub amp has right and left input, I figured that splitting the SC-55 output in two and putting these now identical signals into each side of the sub amp input would be OK (figuring heavier conductor=better passage of the musical information). If I had run a four conductor speaker wire to the sub speaker, set the sub amp switch to Stereo and connected a pair to each of the voice coils, I would have probably been OK. Since I had only fished a two conductor speaker wire to the speaker, I set the sub amp switch to Bridge and connected it to the speaker. Since the speaker is a double voice coil speaker with 4 ohm right and left inputs, I wired the two coils in series as per Crutchfield's schematic. Theoretically, I figured both coils would be producing the same sound. Unfortunately, I think I fried the coils when I first wired the two coils in parallel. That would have put the impedance at 2 ohms, I think, boosting the current to the voice coils(?).

Since I was using a dedicated sub amp with adjustable crossover built in, I did not use the Jamo crossover, which was furnished in case the user wanted to separate out the low frequency signal from regular stereo speaker feeds and redirect to this sub speaker. As far as the last experiment, I took a totally different sound system, connected a speaker wire to the crossover speaker level input. I connected the crossover upper frequency output to a full range speaker and the sub output to the Jamo subwoofer speaker. The full range speaker put out sound, but the sub speaker did not. Thank you for your comments. I plan to replace the sub speaker with a single coil and simplify this.

I'd keep trying to help but I think I could read your posts for a week and still not understand what you're doing. I really wish I could help but I'm just not getting it.

Good luck figuring it out. If a light goes off in my head I'll post back, but for now I have nothing.

Edit:

Okay, so you ran your LFE output through the Y connector to the external amp using both low level inputs set to stereo, then output through one speaker level wire to the sub, using the bridge terminals, with the sub jumpers attached. Did I get this right? This was the first configuration? Was the sub amp set to auto or on? Did you happen to see any change in the status light on the amp indicating a problem? I guess this should have worked, although I'd prefer no Y connector in this setup. Now that you know the drivers aren't responding to any input I guess you know where to focus your attention.
Edited by Terrya - 2/14/13 at 10:17am
post #3809 of 3982
Pause function added: Ok, good. I wasn't imagining it. I also wasn't imagining a TON of bitterness over how Pioneer "abandons" customers as soon as a new model comes out. This upgrade is an outright change in that attitude, and I'd like to think the community will acknowledge it.

I'd also like to think Natalie Portman will come to her senses and realize that I am in fact the man she needs in her life.

Both are about equally likely to happen.

But heck with it... I GOT MY PAUSE BUTTON, B-'s!
post #3810 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrya View Post

I'd keep trying to help but I think I could read your posts for a week and still not understand what you're doing. I really wish I could help but I'm just not getting it.

Good luck figuring it out. If a light goes off in my head I'll post back, but for now I have nothing.

Edit:

Okay, so you ran your LFE output through the Y connector to the external amp using both low level inputs set to stereo, then output through one speaker level wire to the sub, using the bridge terminals, with the sub jumpers attached. Did I get this right? This was the first configuration? Was the sub amp set to auto or on? Did you happen to see any change in the status light on the amp indicating a problem? I guess this should have worked, although I'd prefer no Y connector in this setup. Now that you know the drivers aren't responding to any input I guess you know where to focus your attention.

You have described what I did accurately, with the exception that I first had the two voice coils wired in parallel, which would have reduced the impedance to 2 ohms, I believe. I turned the sub amp on, there was a short, low hum which stopped when I turned the sub amp from on to off. The hum stopped, but when I turned it back on again, there was no hum anymore. I suspect I fried the coils at that point. You mentioned having read the sub amp manual. Do you know where I could get or download the manual for the Jamo MPA-100? I will replace the speaker, but want to correctly connect everything. Regardless, I will start by only connecting a single RCA from the SC-55 to the sub amp. Thanks for you comments.
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