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The "Official" Pioneer Elite SC-55/SC-57 Owners Thread - Page 3

post #61 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

I forgot one of my long desired features that nobody offers:

A video frame buffer so we can advance the sound as well as delay it...

So much sound gets delayed in the process of production>transmission/broadcast.

A video buffer would allow you to make the sound earlier to picture..

You guys would be the first.

I'd like that in certain applications, but it MUST be able to be turned off. If playing any sort of video games or the like, you absolutely cannot have a video delay.

Also, what settings on the receiver would you recommend for minimal lag, and how much lag do the new receivers have?
post #62 of 3982
Is there a reason they left that out?

Are you able to turn off your working head and just enjoy schlock movies?

thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

I''m thinking about starting a support group called RA.

I can give you a link to my professional "home.." there is a list of the main gear on my stage.

Todd AO Studios Hollywood Stage 2



I still haven't found the perfect receiver... I wish I could take all the little gems and make one..

My main goal is accuracy in reproduction so I can compare films on an equal footing...

I consider what I am lucky enough to work with on a daily basis to be of fairly hight quality, so I am always striving for a similar experience at home..
post #63 of 3982
Additional features:
1. Sub EQ;
2. Additional EQ bands; and,
3. Easy FW updates.
post #64 of 3982
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

Additional features:
1. Sub EQ;
2. Additional EQ bands; and,
3. Easy FW updates.

Don... The new receivers do offer FW updates via network and USB.
post #65 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by stimpy88 View Post

Because I really can't see any other reason (for such a large difference, a smaller one to allow for shipping costs etc, is expected...). Price gouging is commonplace for companies that sell goods and services globally. Higher prices in so called "richer" territories. I really don't know how some companies arrive at these conclusions. Yes, our wages are slightly higher than the US, but we pay far more tax, and tax is also applied to a wider range of items and services here, so we have about the same income/expenditure.

I simply can't believe that the reason such an already expensive item is more than 50% higher in price here, is down to different (maybe) PSU and power cable. I'm pretty sure PSU technology is not what it used to be when HiFi had a voltage selector on the back, meaning it's more than likely the same PSU as the US version.

If you have a better idea, please share it with me. I just can't imagine how you are going to justify such a crazy price difference.

While it might not account for all of the price difference, in Europe you have VAT (usually 19-20%), government regulations that increase costs and far higher fuel costs. In addition, on some product types, discounting is not permitted in some European countries except under special circumstances (isn't that true in Germany, for example?). In the U.S., although the Supreme Court ruled a few years ago that manufacturers can control selling prices (not just advertised prices), most manufacturers do not attempt to control selling prices (except through short margins). So there's plenty of competition and especially towards the end of a product's life, prices fall quickly. Also, while VAT is included in most advertised prices in Europe, U.S. sales taxes are never part of the advertised price because they vary by locality, but in any case, they usually top out at around 9% and are frequently avoided by buying from a dealer in one state who ships to you in another state (although technically, you are still supposed to submit the tax to your home state).
post #66 of 3982
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by moparfan View Post

Is there a reason they left that out?

Are you able to turn off your working head and just enjoy schlock movies?

thanks.

Regarding speakers... They are JBL cabinets for the mains (with BMS drivers for the HF) and dual 18" Bag End subs for low frequency extension.

2 BGW quad 18" subs and, on my stage, Klipsch surrounds.

I can't turn off the subjective critical evaluation, but it doesn't stop me from enjoying movies, good or bad.
post #67 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

Don... The new receivers do offer FW updates via network and USB.

Awesome, thanks! I read that then forgot it 30 seconds later when I posted... Senility!
post #68 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

Hello Chris,

As long as you're asking

the previously mentioned independent crossovers per channel would be very helpful

and (hate to sound like a CD on repeat - used to say broken record )
an upgrade package for the SC-09TX/LX90 susano and if Pioneer's budget permits, a susano II model with the latest features. Just a new model alone won't help existing owners who've spent a lot on the flagship, we really could use an upgrade/update package, the minimum updates we'd want are PQLS on HDMI, Dolby PLIIz/NeoX.

Thanks for listening

Chris Walker-

Can you address this?

Chris
post #69 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

Additional features:
1. Sub EQ;

Correct me if I am wrong, but Standing Wave Control does allow at least some parametric EQ (cut only) of the sub(s).

AJ
post #70 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by coltsfreak18 View Post

Will the highest Elite player be Pioneer made or a rebranded sharp?

On a side note, somebody may want to fix the website where it says the SC-55 has more power output than the 57 (149x9 compared to 140x9)

All of the new BD players are our own. No sharp involvement at all...

Lots of features people were asking for......

Chris Walker
Pioneer Electronics
post #71 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiWavelength View Post

Hmm, this is interesting. So, AirPlay (as implemented here) does not appear to be sample rate converting the audio, since it maintains the original 44.1 kHz sample rate. Alternatively, it could be sample rate converting everything to 44.1 kHz.

As for the inability to pass DTS CD WAVs, that also presents at least two possible explanations. The AirPlay data path is not bit transparent, perhaps due to aforementioned sample rate conversion. Or the path could be bit transparent, but the network receiver does not know what to do with a DTS bit stream.

AJ

When sending any content using AirPlay the content is converted into Apple Lossless. My guess would that Apple Lossless does not know how to handle a DTS CD.

Chris Walker
post #72 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

...
Not Coltsfreak, but I have been very vocal about the OSD for years.. volume when it is changed is a start.

When changing inputs, the name of the input and the incoming video resolution, along with the audio codec, and channel count, is nice.

In my opinion, the current x008 Onkyo's have it right.

So is there no on-screen volume indicator with the sc-5x ?
post #73 of 3982
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrs View Post


So is there no on-screen volume indicator with the sc-5x ?

No.
post #74 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudda View Post

Chris Walker-

Can you address this?

Chris

I can tell you that I am made the request a a few times and have been told that they will study. So far I have not had much luck though.. I will ask again when I am in Japan in late September....

Chris
post #75 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

No.

Isn't there one that isn't in decibels if you use HDMI-CEC?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkamo View Post

I can tell you that I am made the request a a few times and have been told that they will study. So far I have not had much luck though.. I will ask again when I am in Japan in late September....

Chris

That's very interesting. By the way, they want you over in the blu-ray forum. Here

Edit: I guess you've answered some of the questions that we've had.
post #76 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkamo View Post

When sending any content using AirPlay the content is converted into Apple Lossless. My guess would that Apple Lossless does not know how to handle a DTS CD.

Well, something is amiss or has changed. A DTS WAV appears to be just another 16 bit 44.1 kHz LPCM WAV. That is how the DTS CD format can be compatible with the Sony/Philips Red Book standard.

Additionally, AirPlay's predecessor, AirTunes, also used Apple Lossless as its wireless transport codec. And it could pass DTS WAVs through the mini TOSLINK optical out of the AirPort Express base station.

AJ
post #77 of 3982
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkamo View Post


When sending any content using AirPlay the content is converted into Apple Lossless. My guess would that Apple Lossless does not know how to handle a DTS CD.

Chris Walker

Chris.... Streaming DTS as Apple Lossless works fine with the first generation Apple TV, since it is, in reality, PCM data like Redbook audio.

I suppose that HMG was never really desgined to check for, or engage, a surround deocder.. which makes perfect sense since only some of.us crazy few have even tried to stream the few DTS CD's that were produced.
post #78 of 3982
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by coltsfreak18 View Post

Isn't there one that isn't in decibels if you use HDMI-CEC?

That comes from the display, not the AVR.

And only if the display supports it.
post #79 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by coltsfreak18 View Post

You can have 5.1 channels in zone 1, 2 channels in zone 2, and 2 more channels in zone 3. You also can have 7.1 channels in zone 1 and 2 channels in zone 2. So yes, you can output the stereo signal at the same time while listening to a surround signal in your HT.

Just for clarity, can the second or third send this stereo signal at line level? Sorry for being so dense.

Thanks,
David
post #80 of 3982
Hi

I wondering if this new Pioneer receiver, SC-57 is as powerful as SC-37 was/is?
And does it still sound like Pioneer?, neutral and correct?
I own SC-37 (SC-LX83 in Europe), but thinking of upgrade it with this new SC-57 if it is as powerful as SC-37 and it sounds good or even better?
My speakers are B&W CM-series, with CM9 as frontspeakers, B&W speakers are powerhungry. I really liked the option to bi-amp frontspeakers AND surround or frontspeakers AND centerspeaker!
post #81 of 3982
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidPotter View Post

One question - Can these receivers output both multi-channel output and a combined stereo output at the same time? I have my system as the hub for my home theater in my family room but I feed line-levels out to a whole-house audio system with a separate switcher and amps. When I play music through my HTPC (e.g. Windows Media Center or equivalent), that channel is 5.1, which sounds great in the room. However, the sound the rest of the house gets is just the front left and right channels. I'm really hoping this receiver can output a stereo signal at the same time so I don't have to switch the audio mode in the family room.

There isn't any product that can take a 5.1 input and down mix it to stereo for you..

However, if you are inputting a stereo signal that is compatible with multi zones there should be no issues, despite the surround decoding in the main zone.

And they are line level (and you have the option of powering Zone 2 if you aren't using more than 7.1 in the main zone.)
post #82 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkamo View Post

I can tell you that I am made the request a a few times and have been told that they will study. So far I have not had much luck though.. I will ask again when I am in Japan in late September....

Chris

Chris,

I've emailed several people at Pioneer including you on this. All I can say is Pioneer is losing the support of owners on this issue. Some have already moved on to other brands and probably won't be coming back, for example Chris C "ccotenj". From what I can tell, the other Pioneer models don't interest most Susano owners. ccotenj moved on to Marantz & now Denon.

Some, like me, are also considering abandoning Pioneer products for Denon if we don't hear from Pioneer on this issue. Not because we really want to, but because Pioneer isn't making the effort that Denon has to try to keep the flagships as current as they can.

Maybe they'll listen to lost customer brand loyalty & lost future sales as a reason to study it seriously and do something!

Please keep trying to convince them that it's in Pioneer's long-term best interests to do this.

Respectfully,
Steve P "ss9001"
post #83 of 3982
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supermestizo View Post

Hi

I wondering if this new Pioneer receiver, SC-57 is as powerful as SC-37 was/is?
And does it still sound like Pioneer?, neutral and correct?
I own SC-37 (SC-LX83 in Europe), but thinking of upgrade it with this new SC-57 if it is as powerful as SC-37 and it sounds god or even better?
My speakers are B&W CM-series, with CM9 as frontspeakers, B&W speakers are powerhungry. I really liked the option to bi-amp frontspeakers AND surround or frontspeakers AND centerspeaker!

As I mentioned earlier, I am still putting in a lot of listening..

But I think at this point I can safely say that there is no decrease in sound quality from the SC37... In my room, it is the most neutral (i.e. smooth) Pioneer I have heard.
post #84 of 3982
"I understand your complaint. Supporting NTFS is very difficult since our receivers run a unique operating system (Not linux or windows).

Believe it or not I am now working on next years models. Please feel free to make any requests...

Chris Walker
Pioneer Electronics

I'd love to see Dolby Volume and HD Radio on next years models. Any chance for these, Chris?
post #85 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

There isn't any product that can take a 5.1 input and down mix it to stereo for you..

That's what I figured, although I was hoping for a different answer .

So let's turn this into a request for Chris: down-mixing a multichannel input to stereo to be output to zone 2 or zone 3.

Thanks,
David
post #86 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by joedok View Post

"I understand your complaint. Supporting NTFS is very difficult since our receivers run a unique operating system (Not linux or windows).

Believe it or not I am now working on next years models. Please feel free to make any requests...

Chris Walker
Pioneer Electronics

I'd love to see Dolby Volume and HD Radio on next years models. Any chance for these, Chris?

While we do not license Dolby Volume we do offer ALC (Automatic Level Control) which offers the same benefit.

HD Radio is being looked into. Just need to see if it makes sense..

Thanks,

Chris Walker
Pioneer Electronics
post #87 of 3982
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidPotter View Post


So let's turn this into a request for Chris: down-mixing a multichannel input to stereo to be output to zone 2 or zone 3.

Thanks,
David

David.. just so it's clear... while not all that difficult to do, it would involve an entire encoding path (i.e. DSP), and may or may not be in violation of HDCP depending on where the audio originated.

Many devices, such as BR players and satellite boxes, already have stereo analog outputs which could be connected to an unused input and passed along to zone 2 or 3....

I would never speak for Chris or Pioneer, but such a request would be fairly complex and expensive, and a good solution already exists..
post #88 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

David.. just so it's clear... while not all that difficult to do, it would involve an entire encoding path (i.e. DSP), and may or may not be in violation of HDCP depending on where the audio originated.

Many devices, such as BR players and satellite boxes, already have stereo analog outputs which could be connected to an unused input and passed along to zone 2 or 3....

I would never speak for Chris or Pioneer, but such a request would be fairly complex and expensive, and a good solution already exists..

I'm sure there is something I'm missing, but the receiver already does this when you set the audio mode to Stereo or Mono, for example. At least that is my experience with my Denon AVR-5600, the flagship unit from Denon from the late '90s. What I'd like is to have it honor the output audio mode for each zone by performing the requisite down- or up-mixing as appropriate. I could then set the audio mode for zone 2 or zone 3 to Stereo and be confident that whatever source signal has been specified will be presented in stereo for that zone while still being presented in (e.g.) Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS Master Audio in zone 1.

Like I said, I'm sure there is something I'm missing.

Thanks for listening.
David

EDIT: Restricting the up-mixing to comply with HDCP licensing makes sense to me. Would there really be problem with down-mixing, however, particularly to Stereo?
post #89 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supermestizo View Post

Hi

I wondering if this new Pioneer receiver, SC-57 is as powerful as SC-37 was/is?
And does it still sound like Pioneer?, neutral and correct?
I own SC-37 (SC-LX83 in Europe), but thinking of upgrade it with this new SC-57 if it is as powerful as SC-37 and it sounds god or even better?
My speakers are B&W CM-series, with CM9 as frontspeakers, B&W speakers are powerhungry. I really liked the option to bi-amp frontspeakers AND surround or frontspeakers AND centerspeaker!

The SC-57 may not sound like God, but every indication (and at this point, only Filmmixer's word) points to these sounding as good, if not better.

An advantage of this receiver is, obviously, the 9.2 channel output. As such, more channels can be biamped (that is correct, correct?). The Sc-55/57 manual (page 14 or 15) states pretty clearly all of the biamping configurations. Note: The SC-55 does not support
these, only the 57.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

That comes from the display, not the AVR.

And only if the display supports it.

I see; either way, it is neither functional (doesn't give decibel readings) nor graphically pretty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

I would never speak for Chris or Pioneer, but such a request would be fairly complex and expensive, and a good solution already exists..

What good solution would this be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidPotter View Post

I'm sure there is something I'm missing, but the receiver already does this when you set the audio mode to Stereo or Mono, for example. At least that is my experience with my Denon AVR-5600, the flagship unit from Denon from the late '90s. What I'd like is to have it honor the output audio mode for each zone by performing the requisite down- or up-mixing as appropriate. I could then set the audio mode for zone 2 or zone 3 to Stereo and be confident that whatever source signal has been specified will be presented in stereo for that zone while still being presented in (e.g.) Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS Master Audio in zone 1.

Like I said, I'm sure there is something I'm missing.

Thanks for listening.
David

EDIT: Restricting the up-mixing to comply with HDCP licensing makes sense to me. Would there really be problem with down-mixing, however, particularly to Stereo?

If I'm not mistaken, it only outputs the L/R channels of the 5.1 source in the second and third zone while still outputting the 5.1 in the main zone. That said, I very well may be wrong. I only use additional zones for completely different sources (e.g. outdoor music).


Chris: For the record, I don't personally care about HD-radio, as I think there are enough options for higher quality audio; however, and I'm sure you know this, depending on how much it costs to implement (and I wouldn't assume that cost to be too dramatic) it might win sales by the "spec-sheet buyers". Also, I strongly believe in the importance of having an updated flagship; many of those flagship users buy other, somewhat lower quality, receivers by the same MFR for redundancy and alternate viewing rooms in the house (or at least some friends of mine do).
post #90 of 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkamo View Post

I understand your complaint. Supporting NTFS is very difficult since our receivers run a unique operating system (Not linux or windows).

Believe it or not I am now working on next years models. Please feel free to make any requests...

Chris Walker
Pioneer Electronics

no worries, I think using a networked DLNA server might be a better option for me anyway and I can't imagine upgrading for a few years anyway

Actually I am suprised that you aren't working on the 2013 models specifications

looking forward to getting one of the new matching bluray players
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