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JRiver Media Center Owner's Thread - Page 29

post #841 of 930
1/5/13 at 12:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenstuart View Post

You don't read as carefully as you choose equipment.
If you look at my post, you will see that I was replying to Nate's reply to your post, and not replying to your post.

You took the trouble of multi posting including my post inferring that you are replying to both. Perhaps you should have just replied to Nate's post!

I note that it was your first post and am guessing you used the wrong reply button or replied to the wrong post. In any case, clearly you did not intend your response to be a reply to my post, so I apologise for the misunderstanding.
Edited by Beamer - 1/5/13 at 1:35am
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post #842 of 930
1/5/13 at 6:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by racerxnet View Post

Tried it with MadVr and Nev's decoders. It was a no go. The White list was useless as it did not even list the proper decoders for MadVr playback. Looked at every conceivable thread regarding this set-up and us Xp users were all in the same boat. Care to post screen shots of a XP system using MAdVr for playback with 17?
MAK
Some machines aren't capable of running madVR. It takes a benchmark of about 2000 to have a chance. The benchmark feature is under Help in MC.

Does RO Std work?

Download the latest build from jriver.com. There were a couple of builds recently that were wobbly with madVR.
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post #843 of 930
1/5/13 at 7:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenstuart View Post

Bit-perfect is bit-perfect, but bit-perfect is not the same as real-time audio playback quality.
Since the beginning of digital audio, most audible differences in sound quality have been due to timing differences in playback of the same bits.
In fact, most of the perceived "warm and smooth" quality of analog versus the "hard and cold" quality of digital is due to improper timing in playback of digital "bits". Sophisticated reclocking systems (that tend to be expensive due to low volume of sales relative to ipods and earbuds) can remove that "hard and cold" quality of sound that has been around for 30 years. Recently some inexpensive products with reclocking have entered the market (HRT, Schiit, V-Link), but even with those, some players - such as Jriver and cPlay - ofter subtle sonic improvements.
I haven't done an A-B comparison of earlier vs later, but I suspect that the introduction of 64-bit audio path in Jriver was the major sonic improvement in Media Center.

Jitter, the distortion caused by timing errors, has been largely eliminated in modern DAC chips. Just read the datasheets for any of the high quality chips. If significant jitter is present before the analog reconstruction stage in a modern DAC chip then it's almost certainly due to poor implementation.

I'm not sure what benefit there is to 64 bit word length digital signal processing. Industry production is based on 24 and 32 bit word length PCM. Sounds more like marketing hype---bigger is better.
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post #844 of 930
1/6/13 at 6:55am
Quote:
Some machines aren't capable of running madVR. It takes a benchmark of about 2000 to have a chance. The benchmark feature is under Help in MC.

Does RO Std work?

Download the latest build from jriver.com. There were a couple of builds recently that were wobbly with madVR.

I have a QX9650 quad core on a Asus ATX board. Quite capable of running MadVr. I have been using MadVr with Mpc-Hc with no hitches. My quest is to be able to catalog both music and videos with the same front end. The standard DVD's are scaled to 1080p with MadVr on a Ehome 9500 projection system. Hence my use of MadVr for the best results. I have no interest in standard RO with your product, nor do I appreciate Jriver controlling the filters to be used in this case. Hope this helps explain my situation.

P.S. I just downloaded the latest MC17 build and I have a expired trial. Is there a way I can resolve the trial time for testing. I will not purchase the software unless it can provide the desired functions I am looking for.

MAK
Edited by racerxnet - 1/6/13 at 7:23am
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post #845 of 930
1/6/13 at 11:50am
I had posted on the Jriver forum about my 30 day trial period ending after trying to get MadVr working on my XP platform .

Jim's response here,
Quote:
Download the latest build from jriver.com. There were a couple of builds recently that were wobbly with madVR.
Well, I down loaded the latest MC17 software and I have the 30 day trial has expired nag. And Jim's response from the Interact forum is here "If you downloaded from jriver.com recently, you have MC18. If the trial has expired, there is no way to renew it."

So buyer beware that if you have problems while trying to resolve issues during the trial period, and you go over that time frame with no fix, you are SOL. MC18 has been reported to be full of bugs. My choice was to use the last version of 17 available at Jriver's web site. It's to bad that they will lose customers due to their inability to direct you to the registry entry where the start date is loaded for reference to the 30 days. I will certainly not pay for substandard software, or software that i cannot try based on my needs.

Such a simple fix that gets ignored.

MAK
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post #846 of 930
1/6/13 at 12:00pm
Although I don't use JRiver MC (simply due to personal preference), there is no way I would classify it as "substandard". I don't know of any company that will tell you how to reset their trial period. It would defeat the purpose of having a trial period and they would lose many more customers due to people just resetting the trial and never purchasing.

Not quite sure where the "buyer beware" is since you haven't bought anything.
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post #847 of 930
1/6/13 at 1:08pm
I understand your position very well. I think it would be appropriate to provide a .exe with a time-bomb to alleviate the hacking problem. Not that it has not already been done. Providing an avenue to test someones software that may work in the future would also be an added benefit. Many may not consider the software if there is no alternative for testing once the 30 days expire.

MAK
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post #848 of 930
1/6/13 at 1:09pm
Seriously you are not a customer have not paid for anything are owed nothing, you knew the duration of the trial when you started it, there is no surprise, your expectations are out of line period. I use jriver for audio only and mpchc with lav and madvr for video. However I have tested it and jriver works just fine for video with lav and madvr and many other users are doing the same with no trouble. Your problem is your looking at possibly spending 50.00 on jriver but refuse to spend not much more to upgrade your os to win7 or windows 8 and instead insist on using an outdated os which very shortly will be no longer supported by Microsoft. If you don't want to spend the money then why not just use one of the many free htpc softwares out there like mpchc or vlc with mediabrowser or xbmc?
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post #849 of 930
1/7/13 at 8:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by racerxnet View Post

I understand your position very well. I think it would be appropriate to provide a .exe with a time-bomb to alleviate the hacking problem. Not that it has not already been done. Providing an avenue to test someones software that may work in the future would also be an added benefit. Many may not consider the software if there is no alternative for testing once the 30 days expire.
MAK

They did put a time bomb in the exe. 30 days is a "standard" and is very reasonable.
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post #850 of 930
1/7/13 at 8:58am
In the interest of world peace, racerxnet, please email me. jimh at jriver.
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post #851 of 930
1/8/13 at 8:01am
Whorled peas. Yummm smile.gif
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post #852 of 930
1/12/13 at 7:29am
I thought Jriver mc18 was great when I used it. Just wish I had more time to mess with it on the trial. I should have used the trial when I had more free time, but ce la vie.

I had a few issues that stopped me moving to it, and I still might make the move. Personally I think the price of the upgrades will always drive me away but it is a top notch product.

Ser
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post #853 of 930
1/12/13 at 8:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ser_renely View Post

I thought Jriver mc18 was great when I used it. Just wish I had more time to mess with it on the trial. I should have used the trial when I had more free time, but ce la vie.

I had a few issues that stopped me moving to it, and I still might make the move. Personally I think the price of the upgrades will always drive me away but it is a top notch product.

Ser

I've used JRiver Media Center for a few years now and have been a very happy customer.

Re their upgrade pricing. About once a year there is a new major version. The upgrade costs about $27, but if you buy it during something like the first couple of weeks it's only about $19. To me that is very cheap for a product that is continually improved during the year. And especially for one that's as good as JRMC is.

Cheers,
Rod
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post #854 of 930
1/12/13 at 5:00pm
JRiver all the way here too! I love the endless options for both video, audio, database strength and developer support on user requests. The price is totally worth it.
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post #855 of 930
1/14/13 at 2:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by racerxnet View Post

I had posted on the Jriver forum about my 30 day trial period ending after trying to get MadVr working on my XP platform... .

I will certainly not pay for substandard software, or software that i cannot try based on my needs.

Such a simple fix that gets ignored.

MAK

JRMC... substandard???...

not even close...

I've always referred to it as a tool for the intelligent...
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post #856 of 930
1/15/13 at 1:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beamer View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenstuart View Post

You don't read as carefully as you choose equipment.
If you look at my post, you will see that I was replying to Nate's reply to your post, and not replying to your post.

You took the trouble of multi posting including my post inferring that you are replying to both. Perhaps you should have just replied to Nate's post!

I note that it was your first post and am guessing you used the wrong reply button or replied to the wrong post. In any case, clearly you did not intend your response to be a reply to my post, so I apologise for the misunderstanding.

I've been posting to Forums since long before there was an AVS.

I was replying to Nate's post. The portion of Nate's post that I was replying to, was in reply to your post. I included that portion of your post, so that people would know the entire context. It was done exactly like this post.

Yes, most people don't look at any of the quoted part, because they are too busy. If so, they shouldn't be discussing technical issues.
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post #857 of 930
1/15/13 at 1:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenstuart View Post

Bit-perfect is bit-perfect, but bit-perfect is not the same as real-time audio playback quality.

Since the beginning of digital audio, most audible differences in sound quality have been due to timing differences in playback of the same bits.

In fact, most of the perceived "warm and smooth" quality of analog versus the "hard and cold" quality of digital is due to improper timing in playback of digital "bits". Sophisticated reclocking systems (that tend to be expensive due to low volume of sales relative to ipods and earbuds) can remove that "hard and cold" quality of sound that has been around for 30 years. Recently some inexpensive products with reclocking have entered the market (HRT, Schiit, V-Link), but even with those, some players - such as Jriver and cPlay - ofter subtle sonic improvements.

I haven't done an A-B comparison of earlier vs later, but I suspect that the introduction of 64-bit audio path in Jriver was the major sonic improvement in Media Center.

Is there somewhere I could research this further? I'm not familiar with this concept.

Thanks
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post #858 of 930
1/27/13 at 4:52pm
I purchased jriver 18 after trialing for 20 days. It's 50 which is certainly reasonable. Trial gives you free evaluation. I run multi zone with streaming renderers to my classe ssp800. Very pleased. Multichannel with MLP 5.1 to a micca ep600g2. This jriver 18 is exactly what I have been looking for since my first HTPC build six years ago. Now working to get my river on iPad stable but still locking up when I try to choose zone on iPad. That causes v18 to stop responding.

Love my music but love tinkering and jriver is complex and flexible and once you get it right, it's stable. Thanks to all of you for your posting except those who always complain without patience. It's $50 bucks which is a great price for what it offers.
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post #859 of 930
1/27/13 at 6:17pm
I bought it last week and like it but I don't consider it stable. It crashes but never during playback. It's usually when switching between applications.
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post #860 of 930
1/27/13 at 6:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rec head View Post

I bought it last week and like it but I don't consider it stable. It crashes but never during playback. It's usually when switching between applications.

Stable is a relative term in the HTPC or DLNA world. I agree.
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post #861 of 930
1/29/13 at 10:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by babgvant View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenstuart View Post

Bit-perfect is bit-perfect, but bit-perfect is not the same as real-time audio playback quality.

Since the beginning of digital audio, most audible differences in sound quality have been due to timing differences in playback of the same bits.

In fact, most of the perceived "warm and smooth" quality of analog versus the "hard and cold" quality of digital is due to improper timing in playback of digital "bits". Sophisticated reclocking systems (that tend to be expensive due to low volume of sales relative to ipods and earbuds) can remove that "hard and cold" quality of sound that has been around for 30 years. Recently some inexpensive products with reclocking have entered the market (HRT, Schiit, V-Link), but even with those, some players - such as Jriver and cPlay - ofter subtle sonic improvements.

I haven't done an A-B comparison of earlier vs later, but I suspect that the introduction of 64-bit audio path in Jriver was the major sonic improvement in Media Center.

Is there somewhere I could research this further? I'm not familiar with this concept.

Thanks

Here is a few (the first is the least technical, and deals directly with the issue of why "bits are not bits":

http://www.madronadigital.com/Library/DigitalAudioJitter.html

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue43/jitter.htm

http://www.apogeedigital.com/knowledgebase/fundamentals-of-digital-audio/what-is-jitter/

The following one is on jitter in professional digital audio recording devices, written by well known audio engineer and instructor/author Bob Katz:

http://www.digido.com/articles-and-demos12/13-bob-katz/15-jitter.html
Edited by kenstuart - 1/29/13 at 10:32am
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post #862 of 930
1/29/13 at 10:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenstuart View Post

Here is a few:

http://www.madronadigital.com/Library/DigitalAudioJitter.html

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue43/jitter.htm

http://www.apogeedigital.com/knowledgebase/fundamentals-of-digital-audio/what-is-jitter/

Thanks
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post #863 of 930
1/30/13 at 8:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rec head View Post

I bought it last week and like it but I don't consider it stable. It crashes but never during playback. It's usually when switching between applications.

JRiver usually takes solving crash problems very seriously. I suggest you generate a log or two when (after) it happens and make a post on their forum containing information about what was happening when it crashed.

Good luck.

Rod
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post #864 of 930
1/30/13 at 11:06am
I have owned JRiver since before it was a Media Center. I remember when it really crashed a bunch... I am currently running version 17 on an HTPC for music and music videos only. I find it to be very stable. I prefer XBMC for movies and TV as i like the way you can search though the media better. XBMC does a terrible job at organizing music. Just my $.02.

My question for you users is - is there some compelling reason to upgrade from 17 to 18? I see the feature list and didnt really see anything that was an I gotta have that - at least for music.

Maybe I am missing something.

I think the price of JRiver to be very reasonable for what it is, and dont mind an upgrade for the price - I just wondered what features other users find great in 18.
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post #865 of 930
1/30/13 at 12:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHF View Post

I have owned JRiver since before it was a Media Center. I remember when it really crashed a bunch... I am currently running version 17 on an HTPC for music and music videos only. I find it to be very stable. I prefer XBMC for movies and TV as i like the way you can search though the media better. XBMC does a terrible job at organizing music. Just my $.02.

My question for you users is - is there some compelling reason to upgrade from 17 to 18? I see the feature list and didnt really see anything that was an I gotta have that - at least for music.

Maybe I am missing something.

I think the price of JRiver to be very reasonable for what it is, and dont mind an upgrade for the price - I just wondered what features other users find great in 18.

My very first thought is the new Loudness feature. But that's because I go straight from sound cards to power amps. If you use a receiver you probably have that feature in it. Another is ROHQ which might improve the video performance for your music videos if you computer can handle it. You could also check out this link that mentions some of the improvements: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=74442.0

I upgrade every year for a couple of reasons. I always find improved that are beneficial to us. Also I think what the JRiver team is doing should be supported. The annual upgrade price is very reasonable for a product that is so constantly being improved.

Cheers,
Rod
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post #866 of 930
1/30/13 at 7:24pm
Good points.

I just wish I could get another trial. I really wasted my time with mine. I guess I could always ask smile.gif
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post #867 of 930
1/31/13 at 3:15pm
Can I use the internal volume control when playing native DSD the same as with PCM content?
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post #868 of 930
2/7/13 at 11:00am
Two new pieces of news:

1. Early Bird Mac Licenses are available now:
http://www.jriver.com/mac.html

Expect First Look (Still Rough) versions by February 22.

2. Ceton support in our Windows version looks likely now. Probably in the next month.
Edited by jriver - 2/7/13 at 11:10am
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post #869 of 930
2/7/13 at 11:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jriver View Post

Two new pieces of news:

1. Early Bird Licenses are available now:
http://www.jriver.com/mac.html

Expect First Look (Still Rough) versions by February 22.

2. Ceton support in our Windows version looks likely now. Probably in the next month.

Care to elaborate?
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post #870 of 930
2/7/13 at 11:16am
It's running inside MC, but isn't ready to release.
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