New home AV distribution plan - Page 3

You probably missed that in the string of replies, but that was a noted problem in our first design meeting with the builder. We are going to move the master bedroom door further up that hall and figure out a way to move the "back" door to the rack into the hallway.

The study idea isnt a bad one, but I like the idea of having direct access in the media room for changing DVDs, XBOX games, etc, since the majority of that stuff will happen in that room. We are trying to emulate this room to some degree



With the stealthed in rack.



http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...788074&page=11


The architect is working on squaring that room off to make access simpler, but Im starting to get resigned to the idea of doing this via a pullout rack instead. Not a deal breaker by any means but I really liked the idea of a fixed rack with walk in access to the back. We meet again next Wednesday to see the first cut of the design changes, hopefully he figured out a way to make this all work.

Nuvo question. Does it only display metadata from Nuvo sources? IE, if I use a Denon Receiver to supply Sirius to the Nuvo system, can the Nuvo wallpads display the metadata or does that only work with the Nuvo Tuner? What about streams from an HTPC?

The XM via net limitations on channels is a turn off. We dont listen to much besides XM and our Itunes library, but we are quite sold on the whole home audio distribution that Nuvo provides.

Next question, Nuvo vs Russound. Any particular pros or cons that put one ahead of the other? For some background, the most Im looking at is 12 zones, the inputs are pretty meager as shown above. The reason Im asking is I found out who my builder's AV guy is and he has a Russound logo on his site. We like the look of the Nuvo system, but I have a feeling this guy will push Russound hard when we talk

They seem to be a security installer doing home AV on the side, is that something to be concerned about? I dont see many examples of rack mounted systems and/or big structured cabling installs in their examples either.

http://www.vipsecuritytexas.com/residential.html

You know, I havent looked in a while. Apparently they updated their content available online because everything I listen to is there now. My big hang up before was the missing sports and comedy channels.

I think Im getting a good grip on the Nuvo stuff and I agree that it wouldnt be terribly hard to do myself based on the documentation Ive gone through. The thing Im having trouble wrapping my head around at this point is IR distribution. Ill go into detail in a follow up post with some block diagrams.

So here is my dillema. This was my plan for the initial build of the house. I will have the provisions in place for a matrix, but at this point I dont think Ill have the funds for it up front. The wife and I agree that the whole home audio is the bigger desire first, and she really likes the Nuvo stuff (Essentia). As of now I still have my receivers handling a second zone of audio each. If I go with the Nuvo system up front those zones will obviously be handled by the Nuvo directly.



The source question was semi cleared up above, so Ill update that at some point soon after I price the music server and look at the budget impact. I will also update the house plans to reflect the 11 zones (the 12th is a standalone workshop). I think Im right on how to handle the 5:1 zones with my amps. The Nuvo will feed it 2 channel audio and the Amp will use 2 speakers when its pumping that audio. I went with LSA40 amplified local interrupts in the two kids bedrooms so they can push their TV audio through the speakers when the Nuvo isnt active. TV audio out is generally line level correct?

My big question is IR control. I know the Nuvo stuff has IR and 232 controls, but there is overlap with my video stuff that wont be tied into the audio anywhere. Can I use the Nuvo for all my IR (and/or 232) distribution or do I need to use some third party IR control and use that to control the Nuvo stuff?

The line level audio from a TV wouldnt be in stereo? I dont see the point in bothering with the local interrupt then. Ill just use the speakers in those rooms for music.

Not really tracking your second point. Control of the Nuvo stuff isnt the concern. Each zone will have a Nuvo keypad in the wall. Im more concerned with IR for the rooms with AV devices that have to interact with the Nuvo system, specifically the two AV receivers for the media room and family room. If the Nuvo system was self contained I think this would be pretty straight forward. My thought was to use 232 control from the Nuvo to the receivers and use a third party IR solution from each room to their respective devices (first block diagram).

I was just thinking I could use the in ceiling speakers for "bigger" sound than regular TV speakers. I didnt give much thought to the location of the speakers making it sound worse though. Honestly it doesnt make a whoop, its just the kid's TVs and they will move out before long.

I guess pass through is fine, but does the IR info go to all the devices with an IR blaster or does IR from zone 1 keypad only go out of the zone 1 IR output? If its the former I think I have more than enough IR outputs to handle everything, if not Im back at needing some other way to hit all the devices.

I dont need to control the AVR from the Nuvo per say, but I will need to tell the AVR to switch to the Nuvo input in those 5:1 zones? If the keypad is used to activate that zone I would think the Nuvo would have to tell the AVR to switch to X input right? The intent was to avoid the hassle of having to use the UCR to set up the receiver and then use the Nuvo pad to listen to the music.

The family room probably isnt critical since the kitchen can supply that area, but the media room is isolated. The expansion chassis was to handle the 12 zones, even if I eliminate those two Im at 10 zones for the house, which still requires the expansion unit (I think?).

Ah, so thats the SUM IR output? Do they have an octopus cable that can hang multiple blasters off of the SUM input so you can hit multiple devices at once?

I thought by using the variable output from the Nuvo that the keypad volume would work even with an AVR? I guess I should clarify, Im hanging the AVR off of the Nuvo because I thoughts how you had to tap into a 5:1 zone since those speakers will all be routed to the AVR. Is there a way to split the speakers between the Nuvo and AVR? Is there any risks there?

By combining multiple rooms into one zone I dont have any ability to individually control one room's audio though do I? IE, if I wire the bathroom and bedroom together into one zone and use either keypad it will turn both sets of speakers on, and use the same volume settings for both right?

Understood. Right now Im still in the learning phase, so Im trying to get a handle on what is and isnt possible within certain approaches. So a third party IR solution from each room is probably the safer play here correct?



So I do an LSI on a pair of ceiling speakers that are part of the 5:1 wiring. When I power the Nuvo keypad it will switch to the Nuvo input (via a relay Im assuming?) Is there any risk involved with having the AVR pumping 5:1 audio while the Nuvo is active? If youre going to pump audio into the room from the Nuvo the AVR should be off but Im thinking if someone walks in the room and doesnt know it (visitors, kids) and powers the keypad while the TV is on.



There are some possibilities, but it would be a stretch to combine those zones down to 6. Worst case we will have 6 active and 6 capped until the extender gets bought.

I completely agree, but as stated a couple of times, the video matrix is at the bottom of the pecking order as far as priorities. We will be doing AVRs connecting directly to the TVs for those initial 3 zones when we build. I will wire for a matrix, but it wont be in place anytime soon. So I need an IR solution minus a matrix for the time being.



Gotcha, so use the fixed output versus the variable on the Nuvo to an audio input on the AVR? The trigger is pointless as well since this will all be controlled via IR right?

Can you wire two IR receivers together to a single 3.5mm into the block? Im thinking of using the second HDMI out from the AVR to push video to a second zone, but I would need IR control to the same devices from two separate zones. I realize that the second HDMI is slaved to the output of the first, this would be a patio/family room thing where we would likely be watching the same thing (football game) on both.

And if I havent said it enough, thanks for all the help. You (and Neuro, Canuck, and others) have been great at walking me through this stuff.


EDIT: Disregard, I found some Xantech documentation that says you can, up to a maximum of 12 on a single block. I can probably get away with a single block and do everything I need. So the next question is, are IR receivers pretty universal? Will I be able to reuse the receivers in each room with a matrix down the road (generally, I know thats a hard question)?

So I tried to bring everything together into a single diagram, I think Im pretty close.



Red is the IR distribution. Blue is speaker, them running through the Nuvo keypads is understood, I just didnt want to get that detailed in a block diagram. Yellow is the fixed output from the Nuvo running to the AVRs. All the cabling to the video zones is going to be 6x CAT-6 and 2 RG6 with HDMI running through conduit where noted. The Study receiver is a bit of overkill, Im using it to push other sources to that room (plug and play) if the need arises until the matrix is in place. I put the LSI in the study because Im considering making that a 5:1 zone as well. Ill have my computer stuff in there, and there is the possibility that Ill game with that set up from time to time.

The LSI on the patio is because those speakers will not be ceiling mounted, they will likely be some kind of high mounted external speakers in the corners of the patio area projecting horizontally. I think that will work well for both TV and stereo music.



For usage, we are looking at 4 people living in the house; my wife and I, 10 year old son, and 18 year old daughter that is moving out in the next year or two. As stated before, my wife and I arent big TV people. We enjoy movies, and we watch the news, but we dont sit down and watch TV from 5-10 PM. We are serious sports fans though, watch a ton of soccer, college football, hockey, and the NFL. That is mainly a weekend thing though. The kids watch a fair amount of TV, but they are just as likely to play video games all day if they were allowed.

The family room will get the most usage obviously. We will probably do quite a bit of family room / patio stuff during sporting events. We grill a lot (outdoor kitchen) so the ability to keep track of the game going back and forth from the big kitchen to the outdoor one is important. That is why Im running the second monitor out from the family room AVR to the patio. Slaving to the famly room's channel shouldnt be a problem 90% of the time, and shouldnt be critical until we get the matix in down the road.

The whole family enjoys music, I have an Itunes server that will go along with the XM streaming to feed the NuVo stuff. I think that will be enough sources but we will adjust as we get a feel for how we will use it long term. Our TV habits are understood, how we will deal with having music at our fingertips all the time isnt.

Internet access will be plentiful, Im planning on putting in 3 WAPS in strategic locations (Study, Family Room, and Bedroom 2 closet) to ensure there is plenty of good wifi access in any point of the house or patio area. There will be plenty of CAT taps located to adjust that as we figure out usage as well.

Budget will dictate our priorities to some degree. Right now our plan is:

1) Wiring the living crap out of the house to include conduit on any external or soundproofed walls. Then adding some more.
2) Nuvo Essentia and Music Port. Still working out the priorities what 6 zones we consider a priority
3) Ceiling and in wall speakers (paint matching, no place holder plates)
4) Nuvo Extender for the additional 6 zones.
5) TV for the patio
6) CAT matrix and additional TVs.

As of now we think 1-5 will make the initial budget, but we are still early in the build plan. Worst case 1-3 will make the initial cut.

Please review and tell me where I may be going wrong.

I like that idea better. Some of that could be a pita before the matrix is installed (like getting a TV to the right channel to listen to the news through the NuVo from the bedroom in the morning) but for the patio audio its a great workaround.

The speaker wire is coming from the AVR, so that means its powered correct? I thought the LSI was essentially a relay flicking between the two different speaker wire "sources"?

So a timely update.

We altered the original floorplan pretty severely on the back half of the house in order to get a covered back patio. I will try to put together a drawing of the final layout so you can see how things turned out. I did get a dedicated media room, and a dedicated structured wiring space to install an AV rack. We did go with 9 video zones and 12 zones of Nuvo for distributed audio. Each video zone consists of 6 category 6 and 2 QS RG-6. I dont have the final floorplan in any form that I can share at the moment, but I can share some pics of my prewire and some lessons learned.



Day one of prewire. This is the structured cabling closet. I tried to achieve something close to the bigmouth theater but the house layout and builder experience just didnt allow it to be as close as I would like. Its wider than it needs to be for a rack, and not deep enough to allow me to install a stationary rack. We placed all our pull boxes at the base of this closet and pulled through a roughly 12x20 opening I cut into the attic decking. More on this later.



This is a typical ethernet/phone drop. Two runs of Cat-6 and I used the snap-on new work LV single-gang boxes. Seemed expedient since LV work was scheduled after the electricians were finished.



Nuvo wallplate run. 16/4 from the closet to the box along with a single cat-6 for control. Second 16/4 run from the single-gang to the speakers.



Subwoofer drop. 14/2 along with a RG-6 run in another snap-on single gang. This covers powered and unpowered subs.





This is what my video drops look like on the interior. 2 triple gang (1 HV and 2 LV) boxes mounted at wall height and floor height. my cabling runs through a loose zip tie on the top box and out the bottom. This will allow me to pull up the cabling I need for the top later on. The close up is showing you a run on a wall that will get spray-foam (theater wall). I had to choose what I wanted on top and bottom ahead of time because the foam locks all the cabling in, so you see 4 cat-6, 1 RG-6, and an HDMI hanging out of the top and the remaining 2 cat-6 and RG-6 running along the left stud going to the bottom box. What you dont see is the LV conduit that got run from the ceiling to the top box and another run from the top box to the bottom box for expansion that was done prior to the foam being sprayed.



And day two of the pre-wire. This went extremely smooth because of careful planning and buying unique colored cable for each drop. This allowed me to pull everything together and mark the entire drop with a single label. The blue-grey on the left is all my ethernet/phone. The white/yellow is the Nuvo. The multicolor bundles are the video drops, and the pure white is 14/2 going to the 5:1 zones for the theater and living room.

Ill post lessons learned and some additional info tomorrow. This was possible because of the help of lots of guys on this forum, I cant thank you enough. We are getting close to completion and Ill be terminating everything and installing the rack in a few weeks. Ill continue to update this thread as we move along.