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Speaker Shootout!! - Page 5

post #121 of 1141
Might want to try an aggressive toe-in (crossing in front of the listening position) with phantom center, if you haven't already.
post #122 of 1141
Thread Starter 
I turned off the center channel and used the DTS-HD track. I am using the Ada Suite 7.1HD.
post #123 of 1141
Thread Starter 
At lunch today I decided to watch a Bluray concert with better sound quality than my CD I have been using. I watched Dave Mathews in Linear PCM so I can test the DR's rather than True HD. This is where the DR's really shined. It was literally like a concert. It was very loud and I checked with my meter just how loud. Well, it was peaking at 108 db's at my seats which means the speakers were playing 120 db's. It was crystal clear and palpable. I would have thought that the vocals would be washed out at this level but they were super clear. I don't have enough amp for my M&K's to even reach these levels which would be about 500 watts. My amps do 450 watts. I will try the M&K's at this level because this is not far from reference for movies. My MV was 0 db's or reference. There is little bass on this bluray so it really shows of the speakers. Tonight I will fire up the M&K's and do the same thing. BTW, vocals on the commentary sound aweful but I have a feeling with the DR's if the quality is not great they sound rough and when the recording is great they reward you. We will see later.
post #124 of 1141
Thread Starter 
Well I did play this with my m&ks and it did sound a little rough. Now these are loud levels. I will try more tomorrow. My maudio is in just waiting for the mic. I will then take all new measurements and start over. I never tried playing the triads at this level.
post #125 of 1141
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Well I did play this with my m&ks and it did sound a little rough. Now these are loud levels. I will try more tomorrow. My maudio is in just waiting for the mic. I will then take all new measurements and start over. I never tried playing the triads at this level.

I don't think a diaphragm tweeter design is going to get you the dynamics you're looking for in your room as mains. At least not anywhere near the price range you're working with now. AFAIK, there are *very* few on the market at any price that would do it, with perhaps the Triad Platinum's being one of them(helluva nice speaker by all accounts!). But I believe they are in the 30K range *eek*.
post #126 of 1141
Thread Starter 
The designs I am testing are multiple tweeters or horns. The triads have a soft dome in a waveguide but that is not going to do what I need. This Dave Mathews blurry seems like a great test for my purpose as it is very loud. Any out there that can crash into me via linear PCM at reference and sound great doing so?
post #127 of 1141
I've used TR#3 (Stay or Leave) quite often for demos and critical listening, nice vocals and guitar work. Tr#10 also, some good strummin'!
post #128 of 1141
Thread Starter 
I will try that as well. I am only using 2 speakers and subs rather than the Ture HD which will spread out the load to all the speakers.
post #129 of 1141
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I will try that as well. I am only using 2 speakers and subs rather than the Ture HD which will spread out the load to all the speakers.

My mic just arrived so I will measure tonight assuming I can get everything running smoothly
post #130 of 1141
[grabs popcorn]
post #131 of 1141
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

My mic just arrived so I will measure tonight assuming I can get everything running smoothly

Good luck with that . I think it took me a couple of days to get to where I felt confident I had everything setup(hardware wise) in REW to take measurements. It was like the "Special Olympics for measuring gear" in my living room
post #132 of 1141
I LOVE that DM bluray. I've watched it at least 30 times. I typically go above my comfort zone at -4db MV. So I guess I'm not at reference volume. I don't know if it's that the speakers are compressing? or my ears just have enough... It's a loud disc though, I'll typically be satisfied with volume around -12db.

I think the base performance is really, really nice in it. They both use the guitar in a percussive manner. Particularly, track 2, When the World Ends.
post #133 of 1141
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony123 View Post

I LOVE that DM bluray. I've watched it at least 30 times. I typically go above my comfort zone at -4db MV. So I guess I'm not at reference volume. I don't know if it's that the speakers are compressing? or my ears just have enough... It's a loud disc though, I'll typically be satisfied with volume around -12db.

I think the base performance is really, really nice in it. They both use the guitar in a percussive manner. Particularly, track 2, When the World Ends.

I will try it lower. The specs on the la scale says it's max output is 121 DBS which I would be at 114 to 117 per speaker when listening at 0 DBS with this bluray in stereo.
post #134 of 1141
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I am using a processor with PEQ, no Audyssey.

Im with you on that, the triple12's have ZERO low/mid end with audyssey on. more and more I am testing, more and more I dislike audyssey for anything but surround EQing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

Good luck with that . I think it took me a couple of days to get to where I felt confident I had everything setup(hardware wise) in REW to take measurements. It was like the "Special Olympics for measuring gear" in my living room

Then im losing the special olympics...what does that mean? haha actually im getting pretty good at it these days. at least just for standard measuring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony123 View Post

I LOVE that DM bluray. I've watched it at least 30 times. I typically go above my comfort zone at -4db MV. So I guess I'm not at reference volume. I don't know if it's that the speakers are compressing? or my ears just have enough... It's a loud disc though, I'll typically be satisfied with volume around -12db.

I think the base performance is really, really nice in it. They both use the guitar in a percussive manner. Particularly, track 2, When the World Ends.

Ordered, as well as 2 more concert BD's. What can I say, I need to hear when the world ends again!
post #135 of 1141
Thread Starter 
I have a question for you guys. The M&K's and the Triads both have internal crossover networks which make them flat at the speaker when sound comes out and the DR-200's do not. When I measure at the seat I only need one or two filters with the M&K's and Triads to get them +/- 3 db's. The DR-200's need at least 8 filters. The question is should I EQ the DR-200's at 1-2m for each and then hopefully they will be flat like the others and be subjected to the same overall EQ as the others? Meaning using one or 2 filters at the seats. My processor can EQ each channel but it also can EQ groups of speakers after that so I can do this if needed. I can turn the EQ on and off on the fly if needed too, when testing the different speakers because the DR's only use the independent channels and the M&K's and Triads use the overall EQ which only has a few bands.
post #136 of 1141
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

The question is should I EQ the DR-200's at 1-2m for each and then hopefully they will be flat like the others and be subjected to the same overall EQ as the others?

Wouldn't that be more consistant with they way the x-overs on the Triads and M&K's were configured? Seems like a good plan to this uneducated observer.
post #137 of 1141
I'd personally love to see un-EQ'd in-room responses of each, then quasi-anechoic of each as well. The EQ'd responses are great, but seeing what the speakers measurements like on it's own is quite appealing.

Thanks for doing all this, by the way. This will be an awesome reference.
post #138 of 1141
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

I'd personally love to see un-EQ'd in-room responses of each, then quasi-anechoic of each as well. The EQ'd responses are great, but seeing what the speakers measurements like on it's own is quite appealing.

Thanks for doing all this, by the way. This will be an awesome reference.

Do you mean as a stereo pair or just one speaker alone? I did show the response in my first post without EQ but listening in stereo. I now have a mic stand and the new gear so I can take 3 feet measurements.
post #139 of 1141
Thread Starter 
I picked a really bad time to do all this with the new baby but it will just take me a little longer and bribing of my mother to take my place.
post #140 of 1141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

I'd personally love to see un-EQ'd in-room responses of each, then quasi-anechoic of each as well. The EQ'd responses are great, but seeing what the speakers measurements like on it's own is quite appealing.

Thanks for doing all this, by the way. This will be an awesome reference.

Agreed.

Speakers are designed to have certain characteristics. Looking at in-room and quasi-anechoic is appealing because of that. You can EQ any speaker to be flat in-room.
post #141 of 1141
Thread Starter 
I assume quasi-anechoic to mean from 3 feet away? I will do.
post #142 of 1141
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I assume quasi-anechoic to mean from 3 feet away? I will do.

Measuring the speaker outside at 3 feet would be the closest to ideal for a quasi-anechoic. Indoors, you will have to gate the measurement window to remove the influence of the room, which will limit the amount of LF you can capture.
post #143 of 1141
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

Measuring the speaker outside at 3 feet would be the closest to ideal for a quasi-anechoic. Indoors, you will have to gate the measurement window to remove the influence of the room, which will limit the amount of LF you can capture.

Well, outdoor stuff won't happen. I will see what they look like from 3 feet away indoors.
post #144 of 1141
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post


Do you mean as a stereo pair or just one speaker alone? I did show the response in my first post without EQ but listening in stereo. I now have a mic stand and the new gear so I can take 3 feet measurements.

It's best to always measure one speaker at a time, else anomalies like comb filtering will occur.
post #145 of 1141
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Well, outdoor stuff won't happen. I will see what they look like from 3 feet away indoors.

Understood. Just place them well away from walls and up off the floor on a thin stand, then.
post #146 of 1141
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

Understood. Just place them well away from walls and up off the floor on a thin stand, then.

And gate the measurement, to avoid any reflections and their "contributions"...

The best guide to what speaker you will ultimately choose will be the data as well as subjective impression at the listening position. The quasi-anechoic stuff is great to see how it would perform if you were outside with no boundaries (including a floor) and so was the speaker....nice to know how it behaves, but it shouldn't guide your ultimate choice....

Off-axis DR data would be very tasty....if that is consistent with on-axis, it is simply the best bang for buck speaker out there as long as you can EQ them.

I think there is a reason no polars exist for the DR series, though.....but I am secretly hoping that they will be great......as I may have a use for them....

JSS
post #147 of 1141
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxmercy View Post

And gate the measurement, to avoid any reflections and their "contributions"...

JSS

yup, covered that a couple of posts up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

Measuring the speaker outside at 3 feet would be the closest to ideal for a quasi-anechoic. Indoors, you will have to gate the measurement window to remove the influence of the room, which will limit the amount of LF you can capture.
post #148 of 1141
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post


yup, covered that a couple of posts up.

How do I gate the measurement?
post #149 of 1141
MK...for the pseudo anechoic measurements, not only is microphone distance critical, so is the height in relation to the drivers.
post #150 of 1141
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

MK...for the pseudo anechoic measurements, not only is microphone distance critical, so is the height in relation to the drivers.

If you guys tell me what to do I will do it.
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