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Speaker Shootout!! - Page 14

post #391 of 1131
9/24/11 at 7:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

You guys Can't let this deal go, I am selling my F-20's for $200 each. You will not beat that ever!!

Someone buy those before I rent a van and make a cross country trip!
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post #392 of 1131
9/24/11 at 7:07pm
Why are you selling the f20's? What will be the replacements?
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post #393 of 1131
9/24/11 at 7:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

You guys Can't let this deal go, I am selling my F-20's for $200 each. You will not beat that ever!!

I'm dying to know... What's replacing the F-20's? 4 Dual opposed LMS 5400's?
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post #394 of 1131
9/24/11 at 7:22pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbuudo07 View Post


I'm dying to know... What's replacing the F-20's? 4 Dual opposed LMS 5400's?

I am making a baffle wall like an IB with 8 18's like the Ficar IB3's. I will power this with the fp14000 clone.
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post #395 of 1131
9/24/11 at 7:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I am making a baffle wall like an IB with 8 18's like the Ficar IB3's. I will power this with the fp14000 clone.

I'm looking forward to seeing how this turns out for you. I'm getting ready to put in 8 IXL18's IB as well. It'll be nice to see how you think a massive IB stacks up against the other over the top options.
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post #396 of 1131
9/25/11 at 3:33am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zacjones View Post


I'm looking forward to seeing how this turns out for you. I'm getting ready to put in 8 IXL18's IB as well. It'll be nice to see how you think a massive IB stacks up against the other over the top options.

This is the only alignment I have not tried.
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post #397 of 1131
9/25/11 at 7:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Yes I did it was my HDMI equalization which happened to be on the wrong setting. It was my processor.

You guys Can't let this deal go, I am selling my F-20's for $200 each. You will not beat that ever!!


Hey if your selling your F20's then give me a shout!
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post #398 of 1131
9/25/11 at 7:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

This is the only alignment I have not tried.

This is going to be something special! I'm very excited.

By the way, I'm glad to hear your surgery went well! Let the recovery be speedy!
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post #399 of 1131
9/25/11 at 8:03am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbuudo07 View Post


This is going to be something special! I'm very excited.

By the way, I'm glad to hear your surgery went well! Let the recovery be speedy!

My knees are very painful even with drugs. I have My right o
Knee into the automatic knee extender. It will be in here for 1.5 hours and then the left knee.
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post #400 of 1131
9/25/11 at 8:03am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post


Hey if your selling your F20's then give me a shout!

Yes I am selling them for $200 each.
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post #401 of 1131
9/25/11 at 8:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

This is the only alignment I have not tried.

You have done this already twice

Quote:
Originally Posted by zacjones View Post

I'm looking forward to seeing how this turns out for you. I'm getting ready to put in 8 IXL18's IB as well. It'll be nice to see how you think a massive IB stacks up against the other over the top options.

MK does not have enough space for 10x VAS which essentially removes the box limitations from the design. This solution is really a just building a large sealed enclosure (62cuft) and putting 8 drivers in it. The 8 drivers model here the same as they do if he built sealed dual 18" 13cuft boxes.

The performance is not much different then when he had 8 18" eD drivers in sonotubes, its a complete circle back to what he first did. Although the alignment, driver position, driver vibration cancellation in the original design had its advantages.

I guess Im saying that MK has already been here twice. Once with 8x18" eD drivers and then once with 4 CHT 18.2 boxes. The only difference now is that he is choosing drivers with more Xmax (more extension).
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post #402 of 1131
9/25/11 at 8:26am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post


You have done this already twice

MK does not have enough space for 10x VAS which essentially removes the box limitations from the design. This solution is really a just building a large sealed enclosure (62cuft) and putting 8 drivers in it. The 8 drivers model here the same as they do if he built sealed dual 18" 13cuft boxes.

The performance is not much different then when he had 8 18" eD drivers in sonotubes, its a complete circle back to what he first did. Although the alignment, driver position, driver vibration cancellation in the original design had its advantages.

I guess Im saying that MK has already been here twice. Once with 8x18" eD drivers and then once with 4 CHT 18.2 boxes. The only difference now is that he is choosing drivers with more Xmax (more extension).

Yes you are accurate except the box will be 151 cubes. I think these won't rolloff as fast as the others. They will also be in an array with one driver up high and the other down low, they will be in the corners and to the right and left of the center channel.
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post #403 of 1131
9/25/11 at 8:44am
I honestly have no idea how an infinite baffle setup would sound with 8 drivers, but did you completely decide against hearing the JTR Captivators first or did I miss that you'd already taken delivery of them? If it's excursion you want --- and the ability to pressurize the room. The captivators REALLY deliver. One 18" Captivator fed with JTR's 4000 watt amp drove my room on a completely grander and more tactile scale than four 15" car audio subs I was using previously. I could feel in my chair at the listening position with the Captivator what I could feel standing within two foot distance of the four 15in car audio subs powered by a 2,000 watt amp. The four 15" subs obviously have more cone area, than one 18" driver, but they didn't have as much excursion and didn't produce the tactile/air movement/presurrization sensation. Again I have no idea what one could expect from eight 18" free air subwoofers, as I've never even heard a single true infinite baffle subwoofer ---- but I've never heard a better sub than the Captivator (overall) and so I was curious of your perspective.
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post #404 of 1131
9/25/11 at 8:55am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

I honestly have no idea how an infinite baffle setup would sound with 8 drivers, but did you completely decide against hearing the JTR Captivators first or did I miss that you'd already taken delivery of them? If it's excursion you want --- and the ability to pressurize the room. The captivators REALLY deliver. One 18" Captivator fed with JTR's 4000 watt amp drove my room on a completely grander and more tactile scale than four 15" car audio subs I was using previously. I could feel in my chair at the listening position with the Captivator what I could feel standing within two foot distance of the four 15in car audio subs powered by a 2,000 watt amp. The four 15" subs obviously have more cone area, than one 18" driver, but they didn't have as much excursion and didn't produce the tactile/air movement/presurrization sensation. Again I have no idea what one could expect from eight 18" free air subwoofers, as I've never even heard a single true infinite baffle subwoofer ---- but I've never heard a better sub than the Captivator (overall) and so I was curious of your perspective.

I still have a couple captivators coming. One IB3 has just as much x-max as one cap. I still have eD and JTR coming.
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post #405 of 1131
9/25/11 at 8:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

One IB3 has just as much x-max as one cap.


oh my ...

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post #406 of 1131
9/25/11 at 8:59am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post


oh my ...


It will be like having 4 caps but with extension to 3-5hz.
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post #407 of 1131
9/25/11 at 12:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

It will be like having 4 caps but with extension to 3-5hz.

Powered or passive caps? Either way, good lord....
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post #408 of 1131
9/25/11 at 1:18pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post


Powered or passive caps? Either way, good lord....

I am not sure. I just guessed that with the same x-max and ported vs sealed as it takes about 2 to 1 using the same driver.
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post #409 of 1131
9/25/11 at 4:24pm
Captivators are a well done commercial ported unit. But they're completely useless under 20Hz, or 15Hz if plugged (and consequently under ported). It's really that simple.

Most any DIY design will outperform the Caps for the money by far.
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post #410 of 1131
9/25/11 at 4:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I am not sure. I just guessed that with the same x-max and ported vs sealed as it takes about 2 to 1 using the same driver.

Depending on power you should be driving the IB3s close/right to xmax (same as the powered Cap). Ported vs sealed, 2 to 1 is a good rule of thumb around the tuning point (~15-20Hz depending on plug). Under that and over that the IB3 will tear apart 4 powered Captivators.
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post #411 of 1131
9/25/11 at 4:41pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiGBADDABOOM View Post


Depending on power you should be driving the IB3s close/right to xmax (same as the powered Cap). Ported vs sealed, 2 to 1 is a good rule of thumb around the tuning point (~15-20Hz depending on plug). Under that and over that the IB3 will tear apart 4 powered Captivators.

Oh I know, why I am doing it. Never mind the 3-5hz extension I should be able to get.
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post #412 of 1131
9/26/11 at 7:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Yes you are accurate except the box will be 151 cubes. I think these won't rolloff as fast as the others. They will also be in an array with one driver up high and the other down low, they will be in the corners and to the right and left of the center channel.

All the discussions and I missed the increased volume part or probably forgot. That will help reduce the roll off.

The array placement up high and low is going to be nice too....if you add 8 more at the back you have an incredible DBA setup
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post #413 of 1131
9/26/11 at 7:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Yes I am selling them for $200 each.


Hey I just sent you a pm. Looking forward to hearing from you!
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post #414 of 1131
9/26/11 at 7:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

I honestly have no idea how an infinite baffle setup would sound with 8 drivers, but did you completely decide against hearing the JTR Captivators first or did I miss that you'd already taken delivery of them? If it's excursion you want --- and the ability to pressurize the room. The captivators REALLY deliver. One 18" Captivator fed with JTR's 4000 watt amp drove my room on a completely grander and more tactile scale than four 15" car audio subs I was using previously. I could feel in my chair at the listening position with the Captivator what I could feel standing within two foot distance of the four 15in car audio subs powered by a 2,000 watt amp. The four 15" subs obviously have more cone area, than one 18" driver, but they didn't have as much excursion and didn't produce the tactile/air movement/presurrization sensation. Again I have no idea what one could expect from eight 18" free air subwoofers, as I've never even heard a single true infinite baffle subwoofer ---- but I've never heard a better sub than the Captivator (overall) and so I was curious of your perspective.

8 18" drivers in a large sealed box is like having 8 JTR Captivators but with even more extension.

The benefits of IB is that it removes the box from restricting the drivers efficiency. IBs have maximized efficiency over sealed boxes. The free air moving performance is just maximizes output for minimum amp power. The reason 4 or 8 are needed is because we require headroom not to bottom out any single driver since they bottom out easy when there is no box restricting excursion.



There is just isnt a comparison in the two. The 18" drivers MK is using are higher Xmax driver meant for maximized extension. The 18" driver is the Captivator is not a maximize extension driver at all compared to these choices.

Its really cool to spend $2K on a design like the IB design knowing that its 8x better then a single comercial subwoofer selling for $2K
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post #415 of 1131
9/26/11 at 7:37am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post


All the discussions and I missed the increased volume part or probably forgot. That will help reduce the roll off.

The array placement up high and low is going to be nice too....if you add 8 more at the back you have an incredible DBA setup

What is DBA? Yeah I don't have much room in the back. I am doing PT as I type. I have my CPM machine set to 90 degrees so I think I am doing good. It hurts like he'll but they just gave me some drugs so I should be fine in 30 minutes.
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post #416 of 1131
9/26/11 at 7:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

It will be like having 4 caps but with extension to 3-5hz.

Are caps twin 18" designs?? It depends on the frequency we are comparison above 20Hz the Caps have great output because of their design so yeah its 4 Caps = 8 IB3 but below 15Hz its probably closer too 8 caps = 8 IB3.
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post #417 of 1131
9/26/11 at 7:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

What is DBA? Yeah I don't have much room in the back. I am doing PT as I type. I have my CPM machine set to 90 degrees so I think I am doing good. It hurts like he'll but they just gave me some drugs so I should be fine in 30 minutes.

Awesome recovery!!! Doing rehab sucks Drugs good I still have Oxycodon left from my shoulder rehab.



DBA is Double Bass Array. Im just joking about adding 8xIB3 at the back of the room
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post #418 of 1131
9/26/11 at 7:46am
Penn the Captivator uses a 30mm xmax driver (same as IB3). Still isn't even a competition of course. They are single driver ported designs.

Back in the day, Jeff at JTR claimed at 20Hz a single powered Captivator would outperform MK's previous 8x18" sealed setup.
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post #419 of 1131
9/26/11 at 7:53am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post


Awesome recovery!!! Doing rehab sucks Drugs good I still have Oxycodon left from my shoulder rehab.

DBA is Double Bass Array. Im just joking about adding 8xIB3 at the back of the room

Oh yeah, this will be a double bass array and span across the front wall. Basically the area behind the screen is going to be my sub.

I have the CPM machine set to -5 extension and 90 degrees flexion.

I can't wait to hear this Bass array.
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post #420 of 1131
9/26/11 at 7:54am
MK, a DBA has an array of subs on the front wall and the rear wall. Basically what you're doing but mirrored on your back wall as well.
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