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Speaker Shootout!! - Page 21

post #601 of 1131
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsloms View Post

That sounds incredibly steep for the woofer upgrade even with the increased neo prices. What is the default woofer?

I think if I keep them I could get the price down as these were totally custom. We were just figuring out stuff and made up the price because a new crossover had to be made as well! eD is a great company to deal with so far for me it has been years with dealing with them. CHT is another up and comer, just give them time! The driver is on par with the best out there!!
post #602 of 1131
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I think if I keep them I could get the price down as these were totally custom. We were just figuring out stuff and made up the price because a new crossover had to be made as well! eD is a great company to deal with so far for me it has been years with dealing with them. CHT is another up and comer, just give them time! The driver is on par with the best out there!!

I agree with eD's willingness to work out custom options with their customers. I ordered a horizontal eD 12 Center, and was happy with how easy eD made the process.
post #603 of 1131
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by redfive View Post

I agree with eD's willingness to work out custom options with their customers. I ordered a horizontal eD 12 Center, and was happy with how easy eD made the process.

I am glad I mentioned that on your thread because I knew they could do something!! You will be glad that you did.

BTW, is the stock CD the same one CHT uses on the SHO-10? I can cite some differences but not until I put them up front to confirm!! I have 30 hours on them and they have been running all day today so I will have 60 hours on them. They will be broken in by this weekend. I just put in a repeating CD on low and leave the system on. Once I fix the bass it will not take long at all because listening at reference tends to move things along faster!!! My subs are breaking in with them.
post #604 of 1131
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Big and ugly will aways be much cheaper and I need more depth for my new 140 inch screen so that is the only reason I sold the JBL's, they were not lacking much at all except High frequencies.

Again, I really dig your threads

I frequently read your impression, jealous all the way. I've worked my way through Klipsch two ways, pro designs, ie., 12", and 15" two ways. I almost made my next purchase after hearing Seaton's Cat's, but I've held off indecisively. We'll see, like you, it's been quite interesting along the way. I've been experimenting extensively with acoustic treatments, and different environments. I'm aware how to achieve each model, just indecisive which acoustic model to pursue. This delayed my mains purchase.

My point is I haven't went through nearly as many as you have, but some of the usual suspects. I'm sure the big JBL's were impressive, but looking back, do you think the LF cabinet was rigid/inert enough? Non-issue? I always perceived the box to be somewhat of an Achilles heel to the design, mere speculation however, as I've not heard it. Typical of JBL's designs, superbly designed, straight ahead high performance...ideal for HT.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

The best of both worlds would be to use the eD High frequency section with the JBL dual 15's to get a speaker that is not deep to fit behind screens. I just may end up having eD build me a sealed dual 2226 with the DE 250 on top. That could be a world beater for sure!!!

The DE250 in a well designed main, certainly is about as good as anything gets for HT. Instead of mating them to the strong pair of 2226's, how about what many consider about the finest LF drives around; the TD woofers from AE. Many consider them ideal due to their low distortion, and good MF/HF performance. Here's a bit on their superbly linear motor design. I'm convinced whatever route I go, I want this motor style covering the mid-bass.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

As of now it is very close between the BFM and eD speakers as they have a slightly different tone. The eD's ar a little higher pitched. The high end on the BFM is more laid back but just as detailed so I need to decide after I have them up front.

Interesting finding,...ever experiment with a Geddes style foam insert in the throat of whatever horn/waveguide your using? Many have found it reduces the distortions inherent to horns, HOM's, via attenuating the side to side energy more than the energy directly radiating outward. Just a thought. It's been determined that those HOM distortions contribute negatively to the otherwise low distortion output.



Thanks for sharing all the details. Many of us live vicariously through you, and your many experiments changing from loudspeaker to loudspeaker. All the best in your continued knee recovery.

Good luck
post #605 of 1131
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post


Again, I really dig your threads

I frequently read your impression, jealous all the way. I've worked my way through Klipsch two ways, pro designs, ie., 12", and 15" two ways. I almost made my next purchase after hearing Seaton's Cat's, but I've held off indecisively. We'll see, like you, it's been quite interesting along the way. I've been experimenting extensively with acoustic treatments, and different environments. I'm aware how to achieve each model, just indecisive which acoustic model to pursue. This delayed my mains purchase.

My point is I haven't went through nearly as many as you have, but some of the usual suspects. I'm sure the big JBL's were impressive, but looking back, do you think the LF cabinet was rigid/inert enough? Non-issue? I always perceived the box to be somewhat of an Achilles heel to the design, mere speculation however, as I've not heard it. Typical of JBL's designs, superbly designed, straight ahead high performance...ideal for HT.

The DE250 in a well designed main, certainly is about as good as anything gets for HT. Instead of mating them to the strong pair of 2226's, how about what many consider about the finest LF drives around; the TD woofers from AE. Many consider them ideal due to their low distortion, and good MF/HF performance. Here's a bit on their superbly linear motor design. I'm convinced whatever route I go, I want this motor style covering the mid-bass.

Interesting finding,...ever experiment with a Geddes style foam insert in the throat of whatever horn/waveguide your using? Many have found it reduces the distortions inherent to horns, HOM's, via attenuating the side to side energy more than the energy directly radiating outward. Just a thought. It's been determined that those HOM distortions contribute negatively to the otherwise low distortion output.

Thanks for sharing all the details. Many of us live vicariously through you, and your many experiments changing from loudspeaker to loudspeaker. All the best in your continued knee recovery.

Good luck

Thanks! Yeah every time I hear the eD speaker it is getting better. I am using some eminence kappa lite driver that pounds pretty good. My speakers were a $300 upgrade over normal which includes woofer and the DE-250. I also have the upgraded finish. I will put them upfront soon. I was going to use AE drivers but they are not easy to come by right now and would be hard to repair or replace. The driver I am using would be easy to replace. My speaker is 100 db sensitive and sounds great.

BTW, I just got my bass back!!!! I rebooted my processor to factory settings and it worked. It got locked without bass somehow. Anyways I put in WOTW and FOTP and I will say this, the bass was much deeper feeling than before and I have not broken in or EQ them yet. I have a sherbourn amp that has 2 outlets. I plugged them in separate 20 amp circuits and then I plugged the sub amp I to the 20 amp circuit with one of the sherbourn's. The sherbourn powers the front stage and surrounds separately. I by luck plugged the sub amp into the 20 amp circuit that ran the front stage. The reason I know this is because I tripped the breaker during FOTP and all of a sudden my fronts and subs went out but the surrounds were still playing. So I kept the sub amp on a 20 amp circuit by itself and put the surrounds with the processor and the fronts with the PS3. So I started it again and now my subs went out. So I thought a blew the 20 amp circuit with the subs but the receptacle shook out of the outlet, damn cheater plug! So I fixed that and I can say the bass was hitting harder an deeper than ever! Time to measure them and then again when they break in.
post #606 of 1131
So....I take it you like the eD cinema 12s. lol
post #607 of 1131
Thread Starter 
If you call them that! They re made by eD but mine are all custom including a different crossover.
post #608 of 1131
How about some pics of the ed Cinema 12's?
post #609 of 1131
Thread Starter 
I have to take pics of all the speakers.
post #610 of 1131
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Thanks! Yeah every time I hear the eD speaker it is getting better. I am using some eminence kappa lite driver that pounds pretty good. .

Consider that your DR200s are loaded with Beta 8 woofers. Imagine DR280s loaded with Kappalite 12s.
post #611 of 1131
Man...there are so many of these choices out there now.

I would love to know how Mk's ed12s compare to a fully upgraded 3pi(which I think sound awesome).
post #612 of 1131
Have you had a chance to try the eD's up front yet? Maybe I missed it. 100 db sensitivity, wow. Wouldn't take much of an amp for those.

Have you tried them for music?
post #613 of 1131
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Consider that your DR200s are loaded with Beta 8 woofers. Imagine DR280s loaded with Kappalite 12s.

That is why I have the T-39's!! DR-280's were on my mind though for a one speaker solution. I could always put the same woofer in it that my eD's have and then it would be horn loaded! It would be like having 3 of those 12's! I am trying to decide which sound I like better as they are slightly different but I need to move the speakers up front because right now they have lots of feel but they are close.
post #614 of 1131
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Have you had a chance to try the eD's up front yet? Maybe I missed it. 100 db sensitivity, wow. Wouldn't take much of an amp for those.

Have you tried them for music?

I have only tested them with music and surrounds. Once I break them in they go to the front.
post #615 of 1131
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Thanks!
BTW, I just got my bass back!!!! I rebooted my processor to factory settings and it worked. It got locked without bass somehow. Anyways I put in WOTW and FOTP and I will say this, the bass was much deeper feeling than before and I have not broken in or EQ them yet.

Awesome news about fixing the Bass issue.

Did I miss something? Are you running different subs than the F20 or did you replace/upgrade the driver in the F20s?
post #616 of 1131
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

That is why I have the T-39's!! DR-280's were on my mind though for a one speaker solution. I could always put the same woofer in it that my eD's have and then it would be horn loaded! It would be like having 3 of those 12's! I am trying to decide which sound I like better as they are slightly different but I need to move the speakers up front because right now they have lots of feel but they are close.



How do the Ed custom 12's compare to the DR200/T39 combo, in terms of bass, midbass, treble, and high frqs? I would like to hear your subjective opinion? Also, if you could change anything about the custom Ed Cinema 12's, what would you change?

Forgive my ignorance but what is a DE-250? Is it a driver or a custom speaker like the DR-200?

You mentioned something about, the best idea would be to have Elemental Designs build a speaker that had a DE-250 top end and a 2226 bottom. Can you give me an idea of what that would be like?
post #617 of 1131
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunga99 View Post

Awesome news about fixing the Bass issue.

Did I miss something? Are you running different subs than the F20 or did you replace/upgrade the driver in the F20s?

I am running 4 SS-18.2's now with a FP10000Q amp. MY first demo was very impressive. Measurements coming soon!
post #618 of 1131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Forgive my ignorance but what is a DE-250? Is it a driver or a custom speaker like the DR-200?

http://www.bcspeakers.com/product.php?id=16
post #619 of 1131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Forgive my ignorance but what is a DE-250?

A compression driver: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=294-605

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

2226 bottom

JBL 15" driver: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...ource=googleps
post #620 of 1131
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I am running 4 SS-18.2's now with a FP10000Q amp. MY first demo was very impressive. Measurements coming soon!

Awesome!!

Are these a different version than the Chase subs you had before or the same subs with just more powerful amp?

How do you like them vs the F20 or do they need more break in time before you want to share your thoughts?
post #621 of 1131
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunga99 View Post

Awesome!!

Are these a different version than the Chase subs you had before or the same subs with just more powerful amp?

How do you like them vs the F20 or do they need more break in time before you want to share your thoughts?

The F-20's were great from 15-100hz in my room, the CHT subs dig much deeper and the new amp might be the reason. I need to confirm my subjective findings. The subs are the same except they look great now.
post #622 of 1131
Can you give some sort of comparrision between the DR-200/T-39 combo and the custom Ed cinema 12's?
post #623 of 1131
Thread Starter 
Bill hit it on the nose and I never even thought about it. This woofer loaded in a DR-280 cab with 3-4 ribbon tweeters could be the ultimate speaker. I need to build 3 of these! It would be an awesome comparison but again the DR-200 thru DR-280 needs EQ just to sound right where the eD speaker has crossovers that tame the response out of the box. To bypass all this one could always just EQ at the seats but the speakers flat out of the box will have an advantage. I EQ'd the DR_200 T-39 combo at the speaker so everything would be fair. Apparently my room gives a nice bump in midbass anyways so every speaker is getting that from my room. Maybe I can trade up my DR-200/T-39 for a DR-280 with some money!! Now I want one, what the hell is wrong with me?
post #624 of 1131
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Bill hit it on the nose and I never even thought about it. This woofer loaded in a DR-280 cab with 3-4 ribbon tweeters could be the ultimate speaker. I need to build 3 of these! It would be an awesome comparison but again the DR-200 thru DR-280 needs EQ just to sound right where the eD speaker has crossovers that tame the response out of the box. To bypass all this one could always just EQ at the seats but the speakers flat out of the box will have an advantage. I EQ'd the DR_200 T-39 combo at the speaker so everything would be fair. Apparently my room gives a nice bump in midbass anyways so every speaker is getting that from my room. Maybe I can trade up my DR-200/T-39 for a DR-280 with some money!! Now I want one, what the hell is wrong with me?

You have th' addiction......

JSS
post #625 of 1131
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxmercy View Post

You have th' addiction......

JSS

I know, why else would have 4 5.1 systems lying around.
post #626 of 1131
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I know, why else would have 4 5.1 systems lying around.

That made me chuckle and belongs in a signature.
post #627 of 1131
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Can you give some sort of comparrision between the DR-200/T-39 combo and the custom Ed cinema 12's?

I can't right now as they are not in the same locations. When you have a speaker 14 feet away it will sound different when 7 feet away. You can feel the eD's pounding but they are not that far. The funny thing is I thought my bass was on during music and it was just my speakers and it sound awesome. With the subs it is a whole new ball game.
post #628 of 1131
Thread Starter 
Another note, I was getting major phase issues with cancellation when adding the 4 subs. It went from 75 db's to only 81 db's so it was like one sub, not 3 more. So I turned 2 of the subs with the drivers facing the opposite direction and it went to 85 db's, the best it can get is 87db's. I called it good for now until I measure.
post #629 of 1131
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post


I can't right now as they are not in the same locations. When you have a speaker 14 feet away it will sound different when 7 feet away. You can feel the eD's pounding but they are not that far. The funny thing is I thought my bass was on during music and it was just my speakers and it sound awesome. With the subs it is a whole new ball game.

Interesting, I found the Ed 12's lacking in the bass region so I compared them to my jtr triple 12, and the difference was significant in favor of the triple 12, tho the triple 12 is a whole different animal. I thought the kl650 had a tad more bass as well but the dynamics were easily one by the Ed. Now I wonder how much difference is there between the stock Ed and the upgrade. I also found the Ed and jtr were very close in level matching...I guess that would make them pretty close in sensitivity.

I think Ed has a winner @ it's price point and really liked the ed's. How do the ed's compare to the cht's?
post #630 of 1131
MK, assuming collocation 75dB -> 87dB is more or less 'correct' for quads.

Sweeeps!

mrcoop, you found the eD's beat out the JTR in dynamics easily or just the KL650?
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