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Speaker Shootout!! - Page 30

post #871 of 1131
2/21/12 at 3:32pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Horstkotte View Post

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=851

(2nd and 3rd pic)

And 4th.
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post #872 of 1131
2/21/12 at 3:40pm
Thanks.

Was there any problems with coverage and the side chairs when reclined?

I was planning on building a surround design such as these and I might as well just build these instead of the hassle of designing them.
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post #873 of 1131
2/21/12 at 3:47pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post

Thanks.

Was there any problems with coverage and the side chairs when reclined?

I was planning on building a surround design such as these and I might as well just build these instead of the hassle of designing them.

They are super loud and knowing my side surrounds were very close to the end seats being below them cut down on output which worked great. They re still very clear and dynamic. I will have to experiment more with them to be sure. I will get home tomorrow night and check it out Thursday or Friday.
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post #874 of 1131
2/21/12 at 3:55pm
Awesome. Thanks again for all your input over these months. Always wanted to try some of these speakers but it is nice to get a review from someone who is a fellow DIY.

Hope everything is going great with the baby. Having four myself they sure can be fun.....and at times........."More Fun." LOL
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post #875 of 1131
2/21/12 at 3:56pm
MKtheater,

you have any plans to attend the Wisconsin shindig on April 14?
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post #876 of 1131
2/21/12 at 5:53pm
Thread Starter 
I can't get to Wisconsin but what is going on?
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post #877 of 1131
2/21/12 at 6:33pm
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1324185
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post #878 of 1131
2/21/12 at 6:55pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1324185

I don't even listen to music that much, all my comparisons are for movies!
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post #879 of 1131
2/22/12 at 5:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Just let me say you build them great! They look as good as the Triple 8's as well.

Thank you.
Now I am envious to have a theater like yours.
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post #880 of 1131
2/23/12 at 10:53pm
Thread Starter 
One of my wedges woofer is not working so I sent a PM to my builder. I also took a sweep of my response and I need EQ on my subs. I basically need a 20 dB cut at 50 hz one bandwidth or from 25-100 hz to be flat from 5-20khz. Should a get an antimode or a behringer BFD? Like I said I only need one filter and done, suggestions?
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post #881 of 1131
3/2/12 at 9:40pm
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OK, I finally got around to trying out the DCX. The manual was confusing me so I put it down and started to tinker with the front panel. I just want to say this thing is very simple to use once you figure out how to navigate the buttons. Anyways, I had a very loud hum no matter what I tried and I ran some REW sweeps gettings things dialed in. I put in Tron and let it rip and sure enough once the Bluray started the hum went away and it was dead silent! Thank goodness! So I did not get the computer link to work but I was running a sweep, changing an EQ parameter, running another sweep, and done. Since I used the DCX which works with REW I pulled out my calibrated Behinger Mic with mobile pre sound card and check things out. I will show you my LP raw response and then my EQ. I will also show my EQ and omnimic graph and my RS meter with correction files graph and see how close everything is. OK, here we go.

Raw response with Behringer MIC



EQ



Now EQ with omnimic



And finally EQ with RS meter with correction files



What I got from all this is that my RS meter with correction files was not that far off! MY Behringer mic was calibrated to a very expensive mic so is probably the most accurate but every graph is +/- 4 dBs from 7hz and up! The RS was from 6 dB's which you can't tell a difference anyways.

The Omnimic graphs were 1/6 smoothed and so were the RS meter graphs, not the new ones!
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post #882 of 1131
3/3/12 at 12:37am
Sweet!

Good to see you got the DCX running. You're right about the manual. It's good for understanding the features, but it's much easier to use the front panel than the manual lets on!

My next step will be to d/l the computer software and see how I like the interface.
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post #883 of 1131
3/3/12 at 6:16am
Did ya sell the Ed's? If not would you pm me a price?

Thanks
Barry
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post #884 of 1131
3/5/12 at 9:55am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bezlar View Post

Did ya sell the Ed's? If not would you pm me a price?

Thanks
Barry

I returned them but still at a cost. So I wanted to review them for a cost going in.
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post #885 of 1131
3/5/12 at 7:36pm
Thread Starter 
NEW GRAPHS

OK, I redid my graphs and I will show the raw response but this time the mic was about ear height in the middle of the center row rather than above my head at my LP which is left center seat(4 seats in the front). This raw graph is what omnimic was showing as well.



Now I added my LP EQ at 45hz with a 5 dBs gain and a slope of 12 dBs per octave and then I ran the EQ on REW with the DCX selected. This gave me about 6 filters to flatten my curve so 7 filters in all. What is great is that I just had to copy the info from REW directly to the DCX. Very simple!

Here is my graph and I am +/- 3 dBs from 7-100hz!



I then turned it up 10dBs



Do you guys think this is better than my last attempt?
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post #886 of 1131
3/5/12 at 8:07pm
I'd be interested to see what your 45Hz LPF would look like at 18dB/octave, and at 40Hz and 12dB/oct.

....just wondering if it would flatten that end of the curve anymore, and then you could bring down the hump in the bottom half for an even flatter response.


Don't get me wrong.....Looks great to me!!
What filters did REW give you and how much memory do you have left on the DCX?
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post #887 of 1131
3/5/12 at 8:13pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by the Son View Post

I'd be interested to see what your 45Hz LPF would look like at 18dB/octave, and at 40Hz and 12dB/oct.

....just wondering if it would flatten that end of the curve anymore, and then you could bring down the hump in the bottom half for an even flatter response.

Don't get me wrong.....Looks great to me!!
What filters did REW give you and how much memory do you have left on the DCX?

I think it said 40% for input A. I don't remember all the filters but the LP did not have a 18 db per octave slope. Maybe I missed it? I saw a 6 db/octave though. If it has more options I am game.
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post #888 of 1131
3/5/12 at 9:50pm
Crap. I just had a huge response and lost it.

Long story short...

I was thinking about the crossover.

But if you're using the receiver for your system XO, you can use the DCX XO as a LPF with more slope options than the EQ filters.

Am I right that the LP EQ filter is tapering off >45Hz, causing the rise in natural response to end up more flat?

The XO in the DCX is basically a highly adjustable band-pass filter. The upper and lower ends can be adjusted to any frequency, with any available slope.

Setting it so the bottom end had nothing (flat) and the upper end to 45Hz, 12dB/octave would be the same as applying your current 45Hz LPF, except it's on the output instead of the input and has more adjustment options. Then you can try changing the frequency point and/or slope to fine tune that upper end (if it even will flatten any more).
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post #889 of 1131
3/6/12 at 3:34am
Thread Starter 
Let me make sure I am reading this correctly, you want me to add a LP at 45 hz with a different slope on the outputs or you want me to use the DCX for the upper end of my response? My AVR's crossover is at 150hz so this response was all subs with no mains. I have not tried a full range response yet and tweak the crossover region if need be.
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post #890 of 1131
3/6/12 at 9:21am
Remove the current 45Hz LPF (EQ menu) and add it to the ouptputs (in the X-OVER POINTS menu).

It allows you to set low end and high end XO points for the output selected. Mine, for example, looks like this:



OUT3 X-OVER POINTS________2/8

TYPE: But24______TYPE: But12
FREQ: 20Hz_______FREQ: 70Hz


That's basically a 70Hz, 12dB/octave LPF on the high end.


The left one you want TYPE: OFF(mine is music only with 20Hz port tune subs - so I'm HPFed in the XO at 20Hz), and the right one set up like the LP EQ was to confirm it gives you the same response. (Butterworth, Linkwitz-Riley, and Bessel will each give a different curve, even at the same dB/oct slope -- I'd start with BUT12 at 45Hz.) Then you can play with slopes to see if there's one that flattens the high end of your curve even more.

Your receiver will still handle the system crossover at 150 Hz, but I am also interested in seeing a sweep up to 200Hz, without mains, in your current configuration. With a 45Hz LP EQ, I don't know why your response wouldn't slope off to nothing before you ever reach 150.
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post #891 of 1131
3/6/12 at 12:04pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by the Son View Post

Remove the current 45Hz LPF (EQ menu) and add it to the ouptputs (in the X-OVER POINTS menu).

It allows you to set low end and high end XO points for the output selected. Mine, for example, looks like this:



OUT3 X-OVER POINTS________2/8

TYPE: But24______TYPE: But12
FREQ: 20Hz_______FREQ: 70Hz


That's basically a 70Hz, 12dB/octave LPF on the high end.


The left one you want TYPE: OFF(mine is music only with 20Hz port tune subs - so I'm HPFed in the XO at 20Hz), and the right one set up like the LP EQ was to confirm it gives you the same response. (Butterworth, Linkwitz-Riley, and Bessel will each give a different curve, even at the same dB/oct slope -- I'd start with BUT12 at 45Hz.) Then you can play with slopes to see if there's one that flattens the high end of your curve even more.

Your receiver will still handle the system crossover at 150 Hz, but I am also interested in seeing a sweep up to 200Hz, without mains, in your current configuration. With a 45Hz LP EQ, I don't know why your response wouldn't slope off to nothing before you ever reach 150.

Normally I would say that my response is great but using this DCX is too much fun, I try anything now. It is simple to use even manually! I will turn off all the EQ's and run another raw sweep. I will then do what you say, maybe messing around with the slopes can help smooth out the midbass region and I won't need 6 filters. I forgot I can use 4 separate outputs as well. There are lots of options to do this. My room has a short ceiling so I get midbass interference. I don't think it would ever be a straight line.
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post #892 of 1131
3/6/12 at 2:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Normally I would say that my response is great but using this DCX is too much fun, I try anything now. It is simple to use even manually! I will turn off all the EQ's and run another raw sweep. I will then do what you say, maybe messing around with the slopes can help smooth out the midbass region and I won't need 6 filters. I forgot I can use 4 separate outputs as well. There are lots of options to do this. My room has a short ceiling so I get midbass interference. I don't think it would ever be a straight line.

Isn't it, though? It has sooo many tweaks and features, it's hard to stop messing with it.

I agree that your response is great, but like you said, it's too much fun!!

The great thing is you don't even have to clear your EQs. Just go to a different preset and start from scratch. That way, you don't lose what you already have and can easily go back to it. It also makes comparing different settings easier/faster. It's as easy as changing what preset you're on.
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post #893 of 1131
3/6/12 at 3:14pm
Well Mk, I bought the plans for the DR200's and W6's, and I can see why one would want to have a builder make them. This is going to be quite a test of my patience....

Wish me luck!
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post #894 of 1131
3/6/12 at 3:17pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyguyOK View Post

Well Mk, I bought the plans for the DR200's and W6's, and I can see why one would want to have a builder make them. This is going to be quite a test of my patience....

Wish me luck!

Yeah I just bought them!
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post #895 of 1131
3/7/12 at 8:46am
I'm wondering how the W6's would perform as mains? They sure are a simpler build. Could always just build five of them and call it good....
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post #896 of 1131
3/7/12 at 8:58am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyguyOK View Post

I'm wondering how the W6's would perform as mains? They sure are a simpler build. Could always just build five of them and call it good....

I say use the wedges for sure, they sound as good as my DR's except the DR's have more high frequency energy. I would not use the wedge 6 as mains, I would use the Wedge 8 with the delta pro 8 driver and make sure you use more tweeters. Basically make sure your melded array goes from top to bottom and the woofer can play much louder and give you reference cleaner. I wonder how the wedge 8 loaded like I said would compare to the DR-200 since both will use the same woofer this way and the wedge would have 12-14 tweeters and the DR has 16. If you want maybe you can buy my DR's so I can try out a DR 250 or even a 280. I really don't need them as the DR-200 can take my head off now! I don't need the low end as my subs do a better job anyways. Besides, my AVR only has one crossover point and whatever reads the highest sets the crossover so even if the DR-280 digs deeper it would be crossed over as high as the wedge 6's.
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post #897 of 1131
3/7/12 at 9:00am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyguyOK View Post

I'm wondering how the W6's would perform as mains? They sure are a simpler build. Could always just build five of them and call it good....

The wedge 6 is only good to 118-120 dBs so it needs to have a better driver or should I say more powerful driver which is what the wedge 8 is.
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post #898 of 1131
3/14/12 at 12:19pm
Thread Starter 
Hey guys, I did a little more measuring and tinkering. I measured my response and I was flat from 10-40hz but then I had a bg peak at 51 hz and a big dip at 120hz. I had my 150hz crossover engaged. The first thing I did was change the polarity on 2 subs to 90 degrees each and it brought down that 51 hz peak by half. I then change the crossover to 80hz and I then had a big dip at 80-90 hz but now I was flat from 10-40 and then from 100-200hz with my main speakers. I then changed my crossover to 100 hz and that dip was gone! I was now flat from 10-40hz and then 60-200hz. I added an EQ filter of 51 hz with a cut of 10 DBS(it was 20dbs before phase changes) with a Q of 5 and now I was flat from 10-200hz! When I say flat I mean +/- 2 dBs with no smoothing. I then added a low shelf at 20hz with a gain of 2 dBs and a slope of 12dBs/octave and now I was flat to 7hz. I ran the dark Night to see if there was an improvement down low and let me tell you, it was not small, it was awesome. I used to run 10dbs hot but now when I run 5 dBs hot it feels stronger than before. I also watched Immortals again and this time all those lows were great. Basically my AVR set my crossover to 150hz and my best response was 100hz! Please verify your responses before trusting your AVR. Apparently my AVR thought that 120hz dip was not wide enough to matter but running 100hz made it flat and my Midbass is as strong as ever! My DR's Midbass is exceptional! I will show every step I did with graphs and their effects from the different changes. It was pretty cool actually. Some of you would think my low end was good enough but boosting it sure makes a difference. The bass feels stronger even 5 dbs lower than before!
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post #899 of 1131
3/14/12 at 1:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Hey guys, I did a little more measuring and tinkering. I measured my response and I was flat from 10-40hz but then I had a bg peak at 51 hz and a big dip at 120hz. I had my 150hz crossover engaged. The first thing I did was change the polarity on 2 subs to 90 degrees each and it brought down that 51 hz peak by half. I then change the crossover to 80hz and I then had a big dip at 80-90 hz but now I was flat from 10-40 and then from 100-200hz with my main speakers. I then changed my crossover to 100 hz and that dip was gone! I was now flat from 10-40hz and then 60-200hz. I added an EQ filter of 51 hz with a cut of 10 DBS(it was 20dbs before phase changes) with a Q of 5 and now I was flat from 10-200hz! When I say flat I mean +/- 2 dBs with no smoothing. I then added a low shelf at 20hz with a gain of 2 dBs and a slope of 12dBs/octave and now I was flat to 7hz. I ran the dark Night to see if there was an improvement down low and let me tell you, it was not small, it was awesome. I used to run 10dbs hot but now when I run 5 dBs hot it feels stronger than before. I also watched Immortals again and this time all those lows were great. Basically my AVR set my crossover to 150hz and my best response was 100hz! Please verify your responses before trusting your AVR. Apparently my AVR thought that 120hz dip was not wide enough to matter but running 100hz made it flat and my Midbass is as strong as ever! My DR's Midbass is exceptional! I will show every step I did with graphs and their effects from the different changes. It was pretty cool actually. Some of you would think my low end was good enough but boosting it sure makes a difference. The bass feels stronger even 5 dbs lower than before!

Awesome!!

Can't wait to see!
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post #900 of 1131
3/14/12 at 1:32pm
Interested. How are you measuring?
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