Speaker Shootout!! - Page 31

I am using a CSL calibrated Behringer mic and mobile pre sound card with REW. I am using a DCX 2496.

Correct, I bought the most expensive one which was $100. Scott or Penngray post links to buy these and I did.

Ok guys since my shootout is over I just wanted to rank them from 1 on down and I will include some older speakers since I had them head to head against my 5000's before.

1. DR-200's
2. JBL 4675
3. JBL 3722N
4. eD cinema 12 upgraded
5. JTR triple 8 sealed
6. CHT SHO-10's
7. JTR triple 8 originals
8. M&K S-5000's
9. KL-650's
10. Triad in room LCR gold classics

Now this is my preference for reference level movie watching where I value big dynamic sound with detail over everything else. Many of the speakers had better highs than the JBLs but their big dynamic sound was just hard to ignore! Now their lack luster highs do make them not as good for music and I will rate them for music now. I am talking 100 dBs for music because above that the triads would fall apart which means 112 dBs at the speaker.

1. DR-200's
2. triads
3. JTR sealed triple 8's
4. eD cinema 12 upgraded
5. CHT SHO-10's
6. M&K S-5000
7. JTR original triple 8
8. JBL 4675
9. JBL 3722n
10. Klipsch KL-650

I am now focusing my energy on subs again and will be trying out a couple different subs to dethrone my current system. My current system is my favorite and having EQ and much better measuring gear helped get a proper response and much more low end so I did not have the chance to compare my eD system using the same. As of right now I will rank my favorite sub systems I have owned but know that my most recent setup has the flattest response, deepest, with the most power. I could have changed my mine with the same equipment on my older subs and why I will try some other stuff out. Anyways here we go.

1. 8x18 sealed CHT
2. Dual Danley DTS-10's
3. 8x18 eD sealed
4. 4 Cinema F-20's
5. 4 eD LLT sonos
6. Dual folded horn 18 pro subs
7. Dual double 18 vented pro subs
8. SVS 16-46 CS plus subs
9. Klipsch THX ultra 2 subs
10. SVS PB2plus
11. M&K MX-5000's

I know I could have done more with the eD sealed system with my EQ and such so now I have different subs coming to try out! BTW, it will be sealed from now on as I get the widest bandwidth as I am flat from 7-200hz with my system now so I won't chance losing the bandwidth. The Danley's did some awesome bass waves that none ever did until last night when I boosted my 10-20hz region and now I get the same effect. If the eD system did the same thing it would have been ranked higher because it did more tactile and visceral effects than the DTS-10's but not that pulse which was very cool and shocking. They were the only subs to ever do it until I figured out where it was happening so I am sure I could do it with the eD system. BTW the top 5 systems I ranked are much better than the bottom, not even close!

Thanks, I really like trying out different gear and I hope people can understand the sound I like by now. The JTR's would please almost anyone I would think and make for an excellent choice. I actually have to go tweak my friend's JTR front stage this weekend with his new processor I got him, the ADA cinema Rhapsody Mach 4! I will also try to convince him to move from the ptm8150 to the 7150 or MPA 502 and 2502 combo which will push the JTR's even more. The good news is even the amp he has which puts out a true 250 watts per channel into the 8's can play louder than he can stand!

I missed this, The clone amps allow for a proper low end with their power down low so the stock amps are good, but not nearly as good as the clones. However, many people say they don't notice the low stuff so I say don't bother then. I also feel those same people never felt the low end properly in a side by side comparison. I require 8x18's in my room, I would need Notnyt's system in a big room. That is just me though.

I have a question for Bill Fitzmaurice, did you ever design an internal or even an active crossover for the DR-200's? If so, I would like to implement them and see what the changes would be. I believe if they had internal crossovers which made them flat at 1 meter many people would be buuilding these things as I believe the performance can not be matched for the money and then some. I thought I did see someone use an active crossover for them on your forum, I will go research it again.

I have 4 dual opposed 18 inch subs from CHT, their SS 18.2's and with the clone amp and DCX my bass has never been better. The eD DIY system was cheaper but the Cabs were awful looking in comparison. I have tried to keep the money the same to be fair. Bang for buck the F-20's were crazy but lacked bandwidth to the sealed designs and even the DTS-10's. They were super cheap and example of what DIY can do! It just cost more money for more bandwidth because multiple sealed subs are required. This is not the end though as I have some more subs coming to try out.

Sounds good to me. I know for some reason when I EQ with my ADA at 1 meter it sound better than my elite auto EQing at the LP and after looking at the graphs I EQ'd much flatter myself but the measurement was not in the same place. I am going back to ADA and using a couple DCX 2496's to dial them in.

Hey guys, the Ada I have only has one crossover point and that os 80hz. I know the DR's are down 10 dBs at 80hz(I will remeasure to confirm) but was wondering how I should EQ the DR's with my subs. Will I notice the difference from 80-150hz during regular movie watching? Should I try some line arrays I taked about before? I know the Line arrays go down to 80hz and they will play loud enough at reference without strain. I was looking at Selah audio kits but I was wondering how the TLAHpro's up front with THAH's for surrounds would sound. I like the aurarray ribbons though and I always said if I could get more dynamic maggies I would be happy, maybe this is it? I know my builder could build the pro's as a finished speaker cheaper than I could get the selah kit for with eD building the cabinet. It would be about $300 difference but the Selah kits have built in crossovers.

BTW, if anyone wants to trade me a clone amp for speakers or subs, or anything for that matter let me know. I need a 4 channel or 2 channel, FP14k or 10Q.

I measured the DR-200's last night, mine have just high pass and low pass filters so they will be peaky in the response. I have them aiming at the LP(downward a little) and the left and right and toed in only about 10 degrees or so. I treated my room so that I wanted to hear the speakers and not the room but I still get some room interactions. I have always put in speakers without EQ and they always sound awesome! For example, M&K S-5000's, Triads, eD cinema 12's, JTR triple 8's, JBL's cinema, you name it. They have always sound excellent without any tweaking whatsoever and the DR's sound aweful without tweaking and I figured the reason was the crossover! All those speakers have crossovers so they are flat at 1 meter and when placed in my room they all have a similar response which is my room which sounds great! The DR's don't have a crossover and at 1 meter they are far from flat. Now if I was sitting in one sweet spot I would just EQ all the speakers to that one spot and call it a day however I have 7 seats and again all the seats sound really good with the other speakers with crossovers. So my thinking was to EQ the DR's at 1 meter and let the room do the same thing to them as the other speakers. I also EQ's the DR's at the seat to hear the difference and there was a difference. I can tell you to experiment and do whatever sounds best but in my room EQing them at 1 meter(each speaker was EQ'd to 1 meter) has a better sound to the room than eqing to that one spot at the LP, especially when you moved from seat to seat. Now what I did was run a sweep on each DR-200 and then let the REW EQ function set the filters for me with the DCX in place. I used 1/3 smoothing so I can see a line which without smoothing is it more like a seisometer! It is very simple, Here are the graphs. Keep in mind they are behind my screen as I wanted to EQ them how I will use them.

First here is the 1 meter response with no EQ(raw) on my left channel



Here it is EQ'd using DCX and REW(8 filters)



Here is the right channel raw at 1 meter



Right channel 1 meter EQ'd



Here is the center channel 1 meter RAW



Here is the center EQ'd 1 meter



I then used the center channel and measured what happened at the LP at 0 degrees.

Center at LP without changing EQ from 1 meter



As you can see my room does a pretty good job at keeping it tamed!

Now I measured to the far right seat about 30-40 degrees(estimated)



And finally the far left seat



You can see how the off axis response changes but overall not that bad from 14 feet away all using the center. So you can see what people are hearing from seat to seat and like I said, crystal clear and very dynamic! So I played Immortals and some music to compare this EQ to my MCAAC and I hate to say this but the Ada with the DCX sounds much better! I am also flatter at the LP than what MCAAC did and the mic was at the LP with MCAAC and I EQ'd with the DCX at 1 meter and still was flatter at the seats! The sound is just smoother and more audible. I once again can play at reference levels without any strain where the Elite was too loud at reference and hurt my ears so I turned it down anywhere from -5 to -10MV depending on the movie. With the Ada gear I set at 0 MV for any movie! Music was the biggest difference as it was more palpable like it was before! I am sorry guys but I will stick with used high end(ada at least) than brand new AVR's. The elite came the closest but I have not found one AVR so far that can play reference without sound too loud for some reason and you guys read it all the time and say how can you watch at reference, it is way too loud! Not on my Ada gear!

I am already smooth!

BTW, the Ada gear with DCX was just a hair more in price than the Elite was. Of course the elite can do 9.1 and many other things that is new. A new Ada processor will cost much more!

I understand, but I try to get a flat response at the LP and the elite was +/- 5 dBs. It still could not play reference without being too loud. I don't think it is the response, it has to be how they calibrate with their test tones, or something else.

What other response would I want? The Elite does have the ability to tweak the bands if I wish. Trust me, I still like the elite, it was my favorite so far out of Denon and marantz but they were older models before the audyssey XT32 which I have not tried. I know I like Integra as well from a long time ago before HDMI. All I know is that it sounds amazingly good right now, there are things I can hear or understand I could not before(immortals) but I am still in the testing phase. Music was more palpable which means that I could feel it on my body more(not the subs). Maybe Ada does Reference differently I don't know because I have had people over before and thought it was lower than reference which is was not. I have also measured peaks from the same scenes and they are the same so why does one sound much louder? Who knows but I just turned it down a bit with the Elite.

BTW I measured my Triads and M&K's and they were flat as well and the triads were softer than both. Softer meaning lightly hitting the piano rather than hitting the keys harder.

I had my processor at -30MV when I did those sweeps and the gain on the DCX for each input was -10MV and the outputs were 0. The Ada amp does not have gain controls. To calibrate to reference I had to turn up the input gains about 4 dBs per speaker. I think I saved the graphs this time so I will see what can do. My JBL's rolled off the top like you guys suggest but I prefer the extended flat response and it does not sound too loud or harsh at all at reference.

Hey thanks! As for the Pioneer my cousin is borrowing it right now so I can't use it yet. I actually tried different things with the Elite. I first let MCAAC do it's thing and listened to the results. I then checked the levels with my RS meter and leveled them to what I am used to which was 4 dBs lower on each main and turned the surrounds up 2 dBs each. Make no mistake, the elite was not straining, it was loud and clear with great dynamics. The Ada processor with DCX cost me $500 and the Elite as a processor with DCX would cost me $1200. The Elite has all the new bells and whistles including 3D.

BTW, here was the responses by other speakers in room

M&K S-5000's with subs



Triads with subs



DR-200 and T-39's



These were all L&R at the LP no EQ

Here was my center DR with T-39 and EQ at the seat



Here is my DR-200 at the seat without T-39