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CEDIA Releases HDMI Troubleshooting White Paper

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
CEDIA Releases HDMI Troubleshooting White Paper

New document will help electronic systems contractors (ESCs)
resolve issues with HDMI systems

INDIANAPOLIS (August 12, 2011)The Custom Electronic Design & Installation Association (CEDIA) has released a new white paper titled HDMI Troubleshooting. This white paper is the fifth document in a series of HDMI white papers published by CEDIA.

The HDMI Troubleshooting document introduces troubleshooting principles for HDMI systems, helping readers identify and resolve possible causes of malfunction by inspection or by using test equipment.

"HDMI systems can be a challenge for electronic systems technicians to support and service," said CEDIA Senior Director of Technology Dave Pedigo. "This document will help electronic systems contractors understand different troubleshooting techniques and the common symptoms and solutions which may arise in an HDMI environment."

HDMI Troubleshooting is available for download in the CEDIA Marketplace at www.cedia.org/marketplace along with previous white papers released by CEDIA. Each document is available free of charge for CEDIA members or priced at $9.99 for non-members. All five HDMI white papers have been combined into a comprehensive document that will be available for download soon. A limited quantity of hard copies will be available for purchase in the CEDIA Marketplace at CEDIA EXPO 2011.

The HDMI Troubleshooting white paper was developed as part of CEDIA's efforts to help its members identify opportunities surrounding emerging and future technologies. Additional white papers are scheduled for future release.
post #2 of 25
So the industry decides to publish and charge for documentation on how to fix problems with the less than robust interconnect they market to consumers, instead of designing it to be bulletproof in the first place like component connections are, and therefore not needed to sell fix-it guides. Pretty slimey on the CE industries part.
post #3 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by qz3fwd View Post

So the industry decides to publish and charge for documentation on how to fix problems with the less than robust interconnect they market to consumers, instead of designing it to be bulletproof in the first place like component connections are, and therefore not needed to sell fix-it guides. Pretty slimey on the CE industries part.

Right On!!
post #4 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtVideo View Post

Right On!!

just buy monster hdmi cables that will fix everything right?
post #5 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by qz3fwd View Post

So the industry decides to publish and charge for documentation on how to fix problems with the less than robust interconnect they market to consumers, instead of designing it to be bulletproof in the first place like component connections are, and therefore not needed to sell fix-it guides. Pretty slimey on the CE industries part.

HDMI where invented by Hitachi, Panasonic, Philips, Silicon Image, Sony, Thomson and Toshiba - not CEDIA. HDMI is also a world-wide standard if that fact where missed by anyone.
post #6 of 25
Just read before you purchase
post #7 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by studiox_swe View Post
HDMI where invented by Hitachi, Panasonic, Philips, Silicon Image, Sony, Thomson and Toshiba - not CEDIA. HDMI is also a world-wide standard if that fact where missed by anyone.
Maybe you missed my point, which is that the existance of these fixme guides should not be necessary, it should "just work" in the CE world.
post #8 of 25
But if these cables were to work as effective as they were made out to be, then they would have no room to make new generations of them that can replace the old ones.
post #9 of 25
HDMI Troubleshooting document released by CEDIA may be a good solution for malfunction.
post #10 of 25
I don't disagree that HDMI should 'Just work', but it doesn't. Cheers to CEDIA for trying to help their imperfect industry out with a solution.
post #11 of 25
It's a flawed technology with no real basis for existence other than HDCP. Nuff said
post #12 of 25
HDMI was and is a horribly designed interconnect and this document while appreciated is a glaring example that HDMI needs to go away. I compare it to Windows ME, a well intentioned product that was not well thought out.

There were and are cables capable of doing all the things that HDMI does and more, why Cat5 or Cat6 wasn't utilized is a mystery to me. It would of and should have been the natural choice, oh the possibilities.
post #13 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdepaola View Post

HDMI was and is a horribly designed interconnect and this document while appreciated is a glaring example that HDMI needs to go away. I compare it to Windows ME, a well intentioned product that was not well thought out.

There were and are cables capable of doing all the things that HDMI does and more, why Cat5 or Cat6 wasn't utilized is a mystery to me. It would of and should have been the natural choice, oh the possibilities.

The average end-user doesn't care if its an HDMI cable or an ethernet cable they're plugging their Playstation in with.

There's also lots of money to be made from HDMI licencing, etc...


If Cat6 cabling was used, imagine how easy it would be to form a network of devices connected via a central HDMI Cat6 "hub". If all you had was a simple TV/blu-ray player setup, one Cat6 cable between them two would be fine. But if you have several players, TVs, etc.. connecting these via a hub or switch would allow the use of one device in another room, etc..

A Cat6 HDMI TV for example could scan the network and show all available devices - your cable box, PS3, etc...

It would be so much nicer than what we got stuck with.
post #14 of 25
I hate HDMI with a passion. It has been the thorn in the side of the industry since its inception. Not only does it not work reliably, once you get it to work, the slightest movement from the cable rips the end apart. Countless damaged inputs on Plasma, LED screens and numerous hdmi cables needing to be run under the house again. What a PITA.
post #15 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by adidadi View Post

I hate HDMI with a passion. It has been the thorn in the side of the industry since its inception. Not only does it not work reliably, once you get it to work, the slightest movement from the cable rips the end apart. Countless damaged inputs on Plasma, LED screens and numerous hdmi cables needing to be run under the house again. What a PITA.

Hdmi means that you can't make it without the license. License means hdcp and such. No region free or Off reservation equipment. License controls all device makers. Analog sunset means no competition. Seen a record out jack recently ?
post #16 of 25
Yeah, who ever said HDMI was made for consumers? Ha ha, no way, it was made for content owners. THAT's what it's all about.

But jeez, couldn't they test out handshake problems before rolling out such a technology? Then again, this is the industry that:
- Didn't think to fit a couple dozen characters of artist, album, and song name within 600+ MB of Compact Disc
- Decided the PLAY button shouldn't make DVDs play, rather you must use ENTER
and on and on and on and on...
post #17 of 25
agreed!
post #18 of 25
+1 to all the HDMI-negative comments! Foisted on the consumer as a better solution for them, while masking the real intent. Make it go away!
post #19 of 25
reply
post #20 of 25
would you agree that sub par hdmi is better than no hdmi?
post #21 of 25
Thanks for this informations. They are really helpfull.
post #22 of 25
I would NOT agree that sub par HDMI is better than no HDMI. NO HDMI would be best. This says it all: "Yeah, who ever said HDMI was made for consumers? Ha ha, no way, it was made for content owners. THAT's what it's all about."
My company has gone through the HDMI connector implementation process, so I'm not an outside observer with an inexperienced opinion, like many 'net posters. A CAT 6 hub for residential implementation as mentioned above by sebberry would work just fine. BUT, that would be considerate of consumers and we all know that content owners, not consumers, are the driving force.
post #23 of 25
Lets say we wipe HDMI off the history books and God knows I don't like it either but a couple of things to consider when you say sub-par HDMI is not better vs no HDMI.

-DVI for video is fine...I don't have a problem with it especially since it can support legacy analog in it as well...but its system of pins and different connectors is far worse for the average Joe than trying to figure out whether you need HDMI v1.2 or 1.4a because face it, besides 3D all HDMI supports 1200p (and higher if Im not mistaken) plus 8 channel 192khz 24bit L-PCM (I don't want to hear "but I can't bit stream then" Just not in this thread, leave the audio decoding to the AVR and the video to the player + TV for now)

-How would HD Audio be affected? Would we be doing DVI with 8 separate analog component cables or would we be using optical (which I like)? I NEVER understood why optical was so limited, always heard Bandwidth, bandwidth, bandwidth....but then I remembered that its a digital connection without content providers getting their grimy little hands on it to create these damn "protected pathways" on HDMI which make it impossible for honest users to bitstream Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD from computers than can EDIT 8ch 192/24 PCM for breakfast, lunch and dinner without complaining! I always thought that optical should have been able to handle Dolby Digital Plus and DTS-HD High Res however short lived those were for the most part they were all under 3mbps and optical is a robust highway of bandwidth (except for maybe jitter and cost but I've never experienced jitter and cost has gone down with using different materials then oh say ACTUAL GLASS!).

-Lets say we use Cat5e/Cat6 believe me I would be jumping up and down in joy! I've got MILES of that crap sitting in my house from when we built a new room and re-wired our entire home network....my dads warehouse had to go optical because of distance issues or something so he brought home like 6 spools of the stuff. Anyways If we used Cat6 I feel like it would create confusion maybe with what goes to what for consumers? I mean you use it for networking, video, audio, etc. but I guess HDMI is sort of trying to do that now and things like Thunderbolt are looking sweet. If Cat6 were used it would have to be manufactured more robust maybe marketed as "Designed for AV use" models with insulation more towards cable protection from twisting and breaking whatever...I know with long run Cat6 I get one kink in the cable and its like a water hose...But yeah Content owners would jump in front of trucks if Cat6 was used...

Alright those were just some ideas for food for thought. Playing devils advocate a bit...believe me I don't like HDMI..right now I'm listening to Dark Side of The Moon Pink Floyd and I TOUCHED my HDMI cable and my AVR flashed "Multichannel L-PCM" on/off and my tv flickered because I touched the thing, in addition Ive got a TV with the head of a broken HDMI cable stuck in it like a fricken' tick! Its a good thing I know not to buy $80 HDMI cables or there would be allot more tears...like my dad always told me "Don't cry over broken HDMI cables" (You laugh but there were a few serious moments when these words were said...notably when our brand new 46" LCD took an HDMI with it as it ALMOST fell to its death but was saved by my friend and I.)
Oh but do I hate seeing my "Component out"'s disappear like the plague...was going to grab a Haupuage HD PVR but don't know how future safe that is seeing as my DirectTV and Xbox is the last component out Ive got...hell I just figured out why my brand new panny blu-ray player was down from 130! HDMI ONLY! Thank the lord my receiver has HDMI decoding but if I bring this somewhere with an AV Receiver with no HDMI what am I gonna do?! Connect to the TV first then let the legacy DD/DTS track trickle down? What if the TV doesn't support DTS! Then the whole DTS-MA is perfect argument doesn't work because now you have to use down mixed 2 channel PCM...Also if I want to plug the thing into a DVI TV (which was an early deal less common now but still in use with things like projectors) great! Ill just grab the 30 dollar adapter I have and loose my entire audio in the process...Its just a mess...I blame it on convergence of technology...PC connections were originally stupid and when that converged with AV systems we were bound for hell...
post #24 of 25
To me, HDMI means a flimsy and fragile non-locking multi-contact connector on the end of a cable with the flexibility of frozen garden hose plugged into another flimsy and fragile non-locking multi-contact connector which can be snapped off the PC board it's glued to with a quick flick of the wrist. And then there's the issue of trying to get meaningful performance measurements by testing cables on your own. To do that now, need to invest over $30K in test gear...just to see how badly the cable might corrupt the signal. Well conceived, well engineered, well done indeed. And yes, it WAS all about HDCP, or the other existing one-cable solutions would have been fine.

Kudos to CEDIA for coming up with a trouble-shooting guide that should never have been necessary in the first place.

What we needed (and still need) is a single-cable interconnect solution that uses robust locking (field installable!!!!) connectors on flexible cable and just plain works all the time, with reasonable and useful length limits. It could even be anti-copy savvy. In fact, the one over-riding requirement is that the new cable solution actually be engineered instead of created by a committee sticking post-it notes to a white board.

"Oh, but now we need to add 3D"

"Oh, but what about hi-def audio"

"Oh, we almost forgot deep color!"

"Oh, we need to add control hand-shaking"

Oh, give me a break!
post #25 of 25
BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMM nichts schlecht
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