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Budget Eminence Coaxial surround build!!!

post #1 of 122
8/13/11 at 8:56am
Thread Starter 
WOW! that was some fast shipping! Way to go parts express! Looks like I dont have near as much time as I thought to get the cabinets ready! Here are some tasty pics

OH JOY REN!!!!!
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post #2 of 122
8/13/11 at 9:21am
Thread Starter 
this is obviously for four cabs, if someone is interested in a cutsheet for two, after I get these guys built and measured, let me know and ill put one together for you.
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post #3 of 122
8/13/11 at 9:22am
Thread Starter 
Pics!!!
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post #4 of 122
8/13/11 at 9:22am
Thread Starter 
finished product
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post #5 of 122
8/13/11 at 9:37am
Nice, that was fast. Look forward to the results.
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post #6 of 122
8/13/11 at 10:19am
awesome, looking forward to the build.

can you do me a favor and measure the length from back to front with the apt-50 mounted?

i am hoping to build a box with an 8" internal depth. thanks
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post #7 of 122
8/13/11 at 10:28am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

awesome, looking forward to the build.

can you do me a favor and measure the length from back to front with the apt-50 mounted?

i am hoping to build a box with an 8" internal depth. thanks


yup, slightly under 6 1/4" so an 8 inch external depth is cutting it close, it will be fine on the angled face tho.
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post #8 of 122
8/13/11 at 10:31am
thanks, i think i'll keep my box simple with a rectangle shape.

9.5" external depth, 8" internal. looks like i got 1 3/4" to spare.
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post #9 of 122
8/13/11 at 11:23am
Are you using stock Eminence crossovers? I'd be interested in seeing measurements if you have the ability. Assuming the xover's do a good job, this could be a nice budget setup.
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post #10 of 122
8/13/11 at 12:09pm
Wow, that was fast shipping! Awesome. Looking forward to seeing how this turns out.
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post #11 of 122
8/13/11 at 12:38pm
I would use the Selenium D220ti over the APT-50 compression driver. It's $40 more for the pair but probably worth it if within budget. Plus, there is already a crossover designed for the Eminence 10" coaxial & D220ti combo that would probably work well with the 8" coaxial as well.
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post #12 of 122
8/13/11 at 12:44pm
Ahh.. not a bad idea. Are the threads the same size for the Selenium? Could it be used in the coaxial configuration or would one have to use a horn with it too? Part of the appeal was the compactness of it being coax and not 'needing' a horn.

Got a link to that particular crossover, CZ? That would be helpful.
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post #13 of 122
8/13/11 at 1:16pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by coctostan View Post

Are you using stock Eminence crossovers? I'd be interested in seeing measurements if you have the ability. Assuming the xover's do a good job, this could be a nice budget setup.

Yep, I will definitely run some sweeps with a pair in stereo once they are all done. hopefully this week sometime.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CZ Eddie View Post

I would use the Selenium D220ti over the APT-50 compression driver. It's $40 more for the pair but probably worth it if within budget. Plus, there is already a crossover designed for the Eminence 10" coaxial & D220ti combo that would probably work well with the 8" coaxial as well.

these are the 10" coaxials that I have. I would be willing to go ahead and order a pair of the seleniums and the other crossovers if you provide the link and as stated below, they are threaded properly? if the seleniums and their respective crossovers are able to drop the xover point to 2000hz then I really think they will do a better job matching up with the FR of the midrange driver...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Ahh.. not a bad idea. Are the threads the same size for the Selenium? Could it be used in the coaxial configuration or would one have to use a horn with it too? Part of the appeal was the compactness of it being coax and not 'needing' a horn.

Got a link to that particular crossover, CZ? That would be helpful.

Yep, I wouldnt run the selenium unless it connects directly to the coaxial
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post #14 of 122
8/13/11 at 2:05pm
i'll be interested in this d220ti combo as well.

my current mains have the d220ti crossed at 1.2khz
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post #15 of 122
8/13/11 at 2:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post


Yep, I will definitely run some sweeps with a pair in stereol

can you run them not in stereo away from all boundaries and gated? That would offer a better idea of FR.
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post #16 of 122
8/13/11 at 4:35pm
It was Zilch who did the 220i/Coax XO for a guy doing some type of art show and they tried both the APT and 220i, Here's the thread and there's a LOT of good info in it.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi...r-cabinet.html

In the end, while the builder/user was happy, the designer wasn't overly 'thrilled' with the performance for music BUT for surround duty, i think it's and EXCELLENT option. Good luck with the design and if done properly could be staple for matching to high efficiency mains in a X.1 system. I would think that a slanted baffle, high wall ceiling mount would be a good option. The eminence coax driver isn't nearly as efficient as the CD and will need as much help in the LF department without loosing efficiency to BSC so proper integration/mounting is key. Now it's also important to remember what 'plagues' the performance of a coax is the mating of the CD to the waveguide that in this case is the cone itself. In order to achieve bass extension, the cone is going to have to move air and the more the cone moves, the worse the diffraction artifacts from the CD to the cone. Damned if you do and Damned if you don't so be mindfull of how much bass you expect outta these. Might be best to even add a midbass/subwoofer somewhere to relieve the Coax's of sub 100hz content all together.
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post #17 of 122
8/13/11 at 6:25pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

i'll be interested in this d220ti combo as well.

my current mains have the d220ti crossed at 1.2khz

with the selenium it would mesh well with your crites. If the 220 is able to operate down to 1.2khz, it would definitely increase the value of building these surrounds as the APT and xover only rolls down to 3.5khz. I feel the mid will be better suited with a lower xover point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

can you run them not in stereo away from all boundaries and gated? That would offer a better idea of FR.

my backyard is gated.

ill run them GP if im able to work out the logistics, im pretty sure I can accomplish it with a few extension cords but i would still be concerned with the noise issue as I have an interstate too close by to get a decent low level noise floor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayhem13 View Post

It was Zilch who did the 220i/Coax XO for a guy doing some type of art show and they tried both the APT and 220i, Here's the thread and there's a LOT of good info in it.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi...r-cabinet.html

In the end, while the builder/user was happy, the designer wasn't overly 'thrilled' with the performance for music BUT for surround duty, i think it's and EXCELLENT option. Good luck with the design and if done properly could be staple for matching to high efficiency mains in a X.1 system. I would think that a slanted baffle, high wall ceiling mount would be a good option. The eminence coax driver isn't nearly as efficient as the CD and will need as much help in the LF department without loosing efficiency to BSC so proper integration/mounting is key. Now it's also important to remember what 'plagues' the performance of a coax is the mating of the CD to the waveguide that in this case is the cone itself. In order to achieve bass extension, the cone is going to have to move air and the more the cone moves, the worse the diffraction artifacts from the CD to the cone. Damned if you do and Damned if you don't so be mindfull of how much bass you expect outta these. Might be best to even add a midbass/subwoofer somewhere to relieve the Coax's of sub 100hz content all together.

i might start my own Co.!!! haha Bstyle speakers

while sub 100hz content would be great to get out of these, my main concern pertaining to the design is to match well with any compression driver'd mains. Seems the market is a little thin for something like this in a small "surround" form on a budget level. I wouldnt dream of making these work for musical presentations but the whole cab built at a sensitivity over 100db's is what appeals to me.

Id love to figure out a good (better) way to mate the CD to the driver so that as excursion of the woofer increases, there is a better way to quell the diffraction. not sure how i would accomplish this without separating the compenents but ill put my mind to it. Just thinking, if you had a decent distance between the CD and the woofer to allow a stagnant surface, the performance would likely only be detrimental at the outskirts of the CD's usable dispersion. wow, i just blacked out from all that technical talk!

back to the point, even at 100hz up, these with a slanted baffle should build their own nitch for many of the folks with high efficiency mains.
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post #18 of 122
8/13/11 at 6:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Id love to figure out a good (better) way to mate the CD to the driver so that as excursion of the woofer increases, there is a better way to quell the diffraction. not sure how i would accomplish this without separating the compenents but ill put my mind to it. Just thinking, if you had a decent distance between the CD and the woofer to allow a stagnant surface, the performance would likely only be detrimental at the outskirts of the CD's usable dispersion. wow, i just blacked out from all that technical talk!
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You would be pretty much back to Danley type designs where you attach both the CD and the woofers to a single horn.
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post #19 of 122
8/13/11 at 6:28pm
Mayhem, thanks for the link got love how Zilch was involved in so many designs!!!!


I have these coax sitting boxes at home now along with unused Selenium CDs so I guess I have found a use for them
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post #20 of 122
8/13/11 at 6:42pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

You would be pretty much back to Danley type designs where you attach both the CD and the woofers to a single horn.

yes, but in a smaller form faction?
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post #21 of 122
8/13/11 at 6:44pm
Thread Starter 
I need a link to the selenium CD;s ill go ahead and order a pair to try out. once again, as long as they thread correctly to the mids...
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post #22 of 122
8/13/11 at 6:44pm
Oh good. Your post sounded like you were going to do a room sweep. Good for subs but not speakers.

Over 100db sensitivity? You must have meant capable of over 100db
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post #23 of 122
8/13/11 at 6:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mayhem13 View Post

It was Zilch who did the 220i/Coax XO for a guy doing some type of art show and they tried both the APT and 220i, Here's the thread and there's a LOT of good info in it.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi...r-cabinet.html

Yep, that's the one I was referring to. I've posted the link in other threads.
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post #24 of 122
8/13/11 at 7:12pm
so it seems zilch crossed them at 1.463? anyone got a layout of the x-over?

can't seem to remember my id/pass for the diyaudio forums
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post #25 of 122
8/13/11 at 7:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

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I wouldnt dream of making these work for musical presentations but the whole cab built at a sensitivity over 100db's is what appeals to me..

Well...i hope i'm not spoiling your party but the HIGHEST efficiency you can hope for with these is 90-91db as the raw coax woofer is 93.5 db and you're gonna need 2-3db or half step BSC for the rising response from 100-800hz. That doesn't mean they aren't a good choic, just not a super efficient choice.
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post #26 of 122
8/13/11 at 7:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Mayhem, thanks for the link got love how Zilch was involved in so many designs!!!!


I have these coax sitting boxes at home now along with unused Selenium CDs so I guess I have found a use for them

Might be best if U and I stayed outta any coax threads. Remember what happened last time? Man.....that thread neared epic status. Sorta Ali vs Frazier...........

I've grown up.....or mellowed out a bit since then though.
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post #27 of 122
8/13/11 at 8:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post


I have these coax sitting boxes at home now along with unused Selenium CDs so I guess I have found a use for them

Have any bolt-on D220ti's you might be willing to sell?
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post #28 of 122
8/14/11 at 12:23am
These will be mounted on the wall. I doubt BSC would be need AT ALL. I won't bother with mine if I choose to build them.
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post #29 of 122
8/14/11 at 8:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

These will be mounted on the wall. I doubt BSC would be need AT ALL. I won't bother with mine if I choose to build them.

You'll need a little, at least 2db. The sacrifice to overall efficiency is minimal compared to an accurate/flat response. There's enough BOOM in surround content. I'm not sure you would want to overcompensate for it.

You COULD try and compensate for it with a higher tune of 60hz or so but i'd mount em and listen/measure before commiting to the higher tune. Wait on the finish work and keep the ports adjustable until.

The model is 1cuft tuned to 60hz with a single 3" port 3" long

Attachment 220019
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post #30 of 122
8/14/11 at 8:38am
I'm with mayhem on all this, but isn't the XO pre-built? So maybe it has 6db BSC, maybe only 1db. So placement should actually be dictated by the results, rather than the design dictated by the placement.
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