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New Optoma HD33 HD3300 1080p 3D Projector Review - Page 11

post #301 of 5228
8/29/11 at 8:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by threed123 View Post

Having used the ACER 5360 at 2000 measured lumens for 3D for about 6 months, and reading the review that the best the HD33 can do is 1148 lumens, I think I'll skip on it and keep my Mits3800/ACER5360 combo for now.

I'd be surprised if ACER gives anywhere close to 2000 lumens the way he measures it.
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post #302 of 5228
8/29/11 at 8:17am
so HD33 is just an HD20 with 3D....will not going to be my 1st projector for sure. 2D is for me by far the most important and for much less mitsu hc4000 is much better.
at least i was expect some nice improvements in black levels of HD33 compared to HD20....
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post #303 of 5228
8/29/11 at 8:28am
The HD33 looks like a great projector. If I wanted a projector for ONLY 2D, would this HD33 be better than the Benq W6000? (let's say I can get them for the same price). I forgot to mention that I want a projector for a 106" screen in a light controlled room.
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post #304 of 5228
8/29/11 at 8:39am
Well, Im on pre-order for a HD3300...and based on the reviews, I think for my first projector I will be impressed. Sure the blacks arent as "black" as the hc4000 but the over all image quality looks excellent. The addition of 3D is a nice bonus and the brightness too. I think this will be a good PJ for me to get started with. For the price, Im not sure there is much better out there.
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post #305 of 5228
8/29/11 at 8:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt in Houston View Post

Well, Im on pre-order for a HD3300...and based on the reviews, I think for my first projector I will be impressed. Sure the blacks arent as "black" as the hc4000 but the over all image quality looks excellent. The addition of 3D is a nice bonus and the brightness too. I think this will be a good PJ for me to get started with. For the price, Im not sure there is much better out there.

for that price and for 2D you can get much better than HD33 for sure, but dont have 3D.
i suppose who buy HD33 will use lot of content 3D otherwise i dont see the point on buy a 3D projector to see only a few movies.
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post #306 of 5228
8/29/11 at 8:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt in Houston View Post

I looked back through the projectorsreview.com HD33 test, and did I miss his measured lumens for 3D?...or is it just understood to be the same as his 2D numbers?

It is what it is at maximum. They set the 2D lower so the black levels are more cinema like. 3D would be set at max. The decrease in brightness due to the glasses makes the apparent black levels about right. The 3D brightness is lowered by the glasses by about 2/3rds or more from experience. The 1148 becomes around 400 lumens--just bearable on a 100" screen. The ACER becomes about 600-700 lumens, which is about normal brightness. Other opinions will come forward, but this is my experience.

The net/net is you have to keep the screen size around 100" unless you have a higher gain screen. Guitarman has a vutec 6 gain, so he's seeing it at max glory. Since I have a rather large screen (142" 16x9) I need all the lumens I can get. I've found that 3D really requires the biggest screen you can get, otherwise the 3D window is too confining for real enjoyment.
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post #307 of 5228
8/29/11 at 9:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by biomed_eng_2000 View Post

The HD33 looks like a great projector. If I wanted a projector for ONLY 2D, would this HD33 be better than the Benq W6000? (let's say I can get them for the same price). I forgot to mention that I want a projector for a 106" screen in a light controlled room.

this is serious? obvious NO... benq w6000 is superior compared to mitsu HC4000 that is better than HD33.

if you just want for 2D avoid HD33 is simple. not because IQ is bad but for the same price (and for less) you can get much better. in 2D HD33 IQ is almost equal (a bit better) compared to HD20.
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post #308 of 5228
8/29/11 at 9:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by evnow View Post

I'd be surprised if ACER gives anywhere close to 2000 lumens the way he measures it.

It has been measured at 2169 (rated 2500) at brightest. After calibration, around 1,600 is more useable.
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post #309 of 5228
8/29/11 at 9:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by threed123 View Post

It has been measured at 2169 (rated 2500) at brightest. After calibration, around 1,600 is more useable.

Is that with 3D glasses on ?

I think when comparing lumens we need to have the same setup measuring them in the same way after calibration by the same person. Otherwise it would be difficult to compare.
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post #310 of 5228
8/29/11 at 10:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by threed123 View Post

It is what it is at maximum. They set the 2D lower so the black levels are more cinema like. 3D would be set at max. The decrease in brightness due to the glasses makes the apparent black levels about right. The 3D brightness is lowered by the glasses by about 2/3rds or more from experience. The 1148 becomes around 400 lumens--just bearable on a 100" screen. The ACER becomes about 600-700 lumens, which is about normal brightness. Other opinions will come forward, but this is my experience.

The net/net is you have to keep the screen size around 100" unless you have a higher gain screen. Guitarman has a vutec 6 gain, so he's seeing it at max glory. Since I have a rather large screen (142" 16x9) I need all the lumens I can get. I've found that 3D really requires the biggest screen you can get, otherwise the 3D window is too confining for real enjoyment.

Thanks, that all makes sense...

The reason I asked is because on the first page of this thread, Guitarman post:

"Lumens on a 106" 1.0 screen - using a light meter back at the screen.

2D basic tuned OTB 1200lumens

3D OTB 1700 lumens, 3D is factory tuned for when viewing with the glasses on. There is no 3D tuning software yet.

2D tuned down to D65k 900lumens"

Makes it seem like in 3D mode the lamp is producing more lumens by the factory vs. the lamp in 2D mode, even on its brightest setting. Not sure why the large discrepancy between the two reviews in this regard.
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post #311 of 5228
8/29/11 at 10:13am
Art's review is less glowing than Guitarman's. Could the difference be 33 vs 3300 ? For eg. 33 doesn't have color/tint adjustments unlike 3300.
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post #312 of 5228
8/29/11 at 10:34am
Thread Starter 
Maybe a little bit but he probably had more lumens than he thought. I see he used the user area. I wonder if he knew the projector shoots down to standard lamp for 2D User Cinema/Film gamma. When you play a 3D movie it shoots up to bright lamp mode plus it goes into a Graphic gamma. I just measured these difference with my light meter and you can add 20% more brightness with bright lamp. You can also add 20% more brightness for Graphic gamma.

You can also add more brightness buy checking the projector at full zoom, not half zoom or closed zoom. I know he mentioned that moving the zoom only added about 5%. But you just don't move the zoom to find out you have to realign the projector closer to the sceen for the full zoom test. Closer to the screen means a brighter image. You could add another 20% for that.
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post #313 of 5228
8/29/11 at 12:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarman View Post

It's very sharp, I was able to get the dark area around each pinhead pixel very clean and sharp with full amplitude (a Greg Rodgers quote). You'll need two people to get to the perfect sharpness spot on the focus, one turns the focus ring other eyeballs the pixel grid.

Just look at this shot, this is before I had an assistant to help me get the sweet spot on focus. It must be a very good lens to get that clear.
http://www.videodementia.com/sales/hd33d65k2d4.jpg

When you compare the picture in guitarman's attacment with the pictures in Projector reviews, it is clear that Guitarman's projector is pproperly/better calibrated. The red push that is present in the skin tones in projector reviews is definitely not present in guiterman's picture (post calibration). Why is that? I am confused as to why projector review cannot calibrate that red push out while guitarman was able to get better results. For this reason, I don't think projector reviews has given the HD33 a fair shake (unless, of course, the HD33 and HD3300 are that much different).
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post #314 of 5228
8/29/11 at 12:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by evnow View Post

Art's review is less glowing than Guitarman's. Could the difference be 33 vs 3300 ? For eg. 33 doesn't have color/tint adjustments unlike 3300.

I am disappointed at Art's review.....he talks about cross-talk and i swear i dont see it on my HD66 with DLP-link.....wonder what he used for 3D glasses...RF or DLP-link ?
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post #315 of 5228
8/29/11 at 12:58pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt in Houston View Post

I looked back through the projectorsreview.com HD33 test, and did I miss his measured lumens for 3D?...or is it just understood to be the same as his 2D numbers?

We can't really tune the 3D area until we get a DVE 3D. But we can approximate the lumens. I got around 1400lumens un tuned in bright lamp add the extra 20% the graphic gamma will give takes it up to 1700lumens, that's on my 106" diag screen, smaller screens you get more.
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post #316 of 5228
8/29/11 at 1:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by atabea View Post

When you compare the picture in guitarman's attacment with the pictures in Projector reviews, it is clear that Guitarman's projector is pproperly/better calibrated. The red push that is present in the skin tones in projector reviews is definitely not present in guiterman's picture (post calibration). Why is that? I am confused as to why projector review cannot calibrate that red push out while guitarman was able to get better results. For this reason, I don't think projector reviews has given the HD33 a fair shake (unless, of course, the HD33 and HD3300 are that much different).

I think that is because in HD33 you can't adjust tint or hue or advanced gamma std. If you see the first post of this thread, guitarman has adjusted the color and gamma during calibration.

Quote:


Here are the colorfacts calibrated numbers, might come in handy.

1080i Component signal
Cinema
contrast -14
brightness 0
Sharp 12
Color +8
Tint 0
Advanced
Gamma Standard
R gain -4
G gain 0
B gain +1
R bias +2
G bias -1
B bias +4

HDMI 2D
Contrast -18
Brightness -2
Sharp 11
Color 15
Tint 0

Advanced
Gamma Film
R gain -5
G gain 0
B gain -1
R bias -1
G bias 0
B bias 0
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post #317 of 5228
8/29/11 at 1:06pm
guitarman: You have a HD33 right, not the HD3300? Art's review clearly had the lumens lower in both 2D and 3D mode. If you can do 1700 lumens in 3D, then you can get around 600 lumens with the right glasses for 3D--some are better than others in my experience. However, not much experience out there with RF glasses. Can you measure lumens in both RF mode and DLPlink mode and see if there is a difference? How are you measuring lumens? Looking at the HD33 calculator, and 1.2 zoom (projector closet to screen) is 30fl and 1.0 zoom is 24fl, so the increase is significant for 100" screen--almost 25% gain. F/stop changes: from f2.87 for f2.55 suggesting that you might get a sharper image at the f2.87. They are probably using 1800 lumens here, though, http://www.optomausa.com/products/detail/HD33 Also, you can focus down to about 5 feet from a screen image. Try doing this and measure the lumens again on the small screen and see what you get--might surprise you. Who knows how these companies do the measurement.

Also,
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post #318 of 5228
8/29/11 at 1:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by threed123 View Post

guitarman: You have a HD33 right, not the HD3300?

No guitarman has a 3300 (see the black projector in the first post, first image). Also, otherwise he wouldn't be able to adjust the color/hue/gamma.
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post #319 of 5228
8/29/11 at 1:23pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by threed123 View Post

guitarman: You have a HD33 right, not the HD3300? Art's review clearly had the lumens lower in both 2D and 3D mode. If you can do 1700 lumens in 3D, then you can get around 600 lumens with the right glasses for 3D--some are better than others in my experience. However, not much experience out there with RF glasses. Can you measure lumens in both RF mode and DLPlink mode and see if there is a difference? How are you measuring lumens? Looking at the HD33 calculator, and 1.2 zoom (projector closet to screen) is 30fl and 1.0 zoom is 24fl, so the increase is significant for 100" screen--almost 25% gain. F/stop changes: from f2.87 for f2.55 suggesting that you might get a sharper image at the f2.87. They are probably using 1800 lumens here, though, http://www.optomausa.com/products/detail/HD33 Also, you can focus down to about 5 feet from a screen image. Try doing this and measure the lumens again on the small screen and see what you get--might surprise you. Who knows how these companies do the measurement.

Also,

Yeah I messed up when I checked the lumens in my garage setup I had the PJ in long throw lens zoom closed down. So you can add to my 1400lumens untuned bright lamp settings by adding the 20% increase full open zoom would bring. Now that I know Graphic gamma is adding another 20%, add another 20% to that. What do we got? I'm getting confused now.

It's looking like 2000 lumens to me, I think that's what they rate the thing. HD3300 I mean.

Now remember we can't check lumens on 3D yet we have to appoximate.
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post #320 of 5228
8/29/11 at 1:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarman View Post

Yeah I messed up when I checked the lumens in my garage setup I had the PJ in long throw lens zoom closed down. So you can add to my 1400lumens untuned bright lamp settings by adding the 20% increase full open zoom would bring. Now that I know Graphic gamma is adding another 20%, add another 20% to that. What do we got? I'm getting confused now.

It's looking like 2000 lumens to me, I think that's what they rate the thing. HD3300 I mean.

Now remember we can't check lumens on 3D yet we have to appoximate.

Total confusion. I see the black box, but thought you were talking about the HD33, when indeed you have the HD3300. And it's apparent they have tweaked the living heck out of it to get lumens and image up beyond what Art is seeing. So the true buyin for this baby is really $1995, not $1495, which will ONLY get you par 2D performance, and so-so 3D. $ hit me...
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post #321 of 5228
8/29/11 at 2:00pm
The true buy in for the HD3300 is actually quite a bit less, call AVS and see.

Im looking forward to mine...and although I can afford to spend more, I figure since this is my first projector I will be blown away regardless and I can just spend the saved money toward a second row of seats.
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post #322 of 5228
8/29/11 at 2:17pm
Matt, I graciously await your first hand experience...
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post #323 of 5228
8/29/11 at 2:32pm
I will definitely post my finding once I set everything up...but I must say I do not have any of the measurement tools that the pros have...

I will be throwing onto a 120" Elite CineWhite tensioned electric screen in a 36x12 bat cave with mediium-dark purple walls and ceiling. Installing the screen and Onkyo S9400THX 7.1 surround this week and next. Fun fun...
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post #324 of 5228
8/29/11 at 2:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by threed123 View Post

It has been measured at 2169 (rated 2500) at brightest. After calibration, around 1,600 is more useable.

From Projector Central's review of the Acer H5360 (which I own):

Quote:


As is typical, switching to 3D mode results in a significant decrease in light output - the H5360 output drops to 698 ANSI-lumens in either the NVIDIA 3D or DLP Link modes

I believe that's not through the glasses themselves...

BTW, Art's enthusiasm certainly dropped from his blog entry for the HD33.

My main concern is the weak black levels reported.
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post #325 of 5228
8/29/11 at 3:12pm
Apparent brightness appears different, though, as if doubling the effect in my experience.
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post #326 of 5228
8/29/11 at 3:33pm
I find it quite odd that the review mentions ghosting. He also said he saw cross-talk (ghosting) on the Sharp Z17000. Funny I never read anyone else mention ghosting on a dlp. Like myself, others have favored dlp for 3d due to its lack of ghosting.

Something is odd about these 3d reviews.
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post #327 of 5228
8/29/11 at 3:36pm
Thread Starter 
Black levels are fine and about on par with my mits hc6500 I compared them. Blacks are better on the Sharp Z3000 I have but I wouldn't want to use high contrast iris it's too dark, mediums ok.

It all comes down to how does the picture look. I watched The Wolfman it's dark and it looked great. Dark stuff on the 3D Alice in Wonderland looked even better you'd swear CR is 1000000.1. Blacks in some of Art's pictures look great, so do mine.
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post #328 of 5228
8/29/11 at 3:40pm
Guitarman,

Have you seen ghosting on other 3d displays before? It would probably show up with a dark background and some light objects in the foreground. It looks like a faint double image. Noticed this while watching 3d on the HD3300?
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post #329 of 5228
8/29/11 at 4:06pm
I just read PC's review and this one sounds like a real winner. It seems that great inexpensive 3D projectors are now rolling out into the market place. Hopefully we'll get some content to go along with them.
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post #330 of 5228
8/29/11 at 4:23pm
Guitarman, once and for all, just how much ghosting/crosstalk are you seeing???????. I agree with some of posts here----something is curously off with the difference in 3d performance. Could it just be the hd33 is so vastly inferior to the hd3300??
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