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Necro thread...Quick basement remodel starts in 11 days...turned into 2 years.... - Page 2

post #31 of 55
The Monoprice sub cable will work fine - it's exactly what I used for my subs during my build. In fact, almost all my cabling came from Monoprice and I've been thrilled with the quality, even though they charge a fraction of what you would pay in a retail store.

You should have no problem running these cables on the opposite side of the beam from power and water. Should you have to cross the power, just make sure you do so at about a 90 degree angle to minimize chance of interference. You wouldn't even necessarily put them inside conduit, although doing so makes it easier to replace/upgrade those runs in the future if need be.
post #32 of 55
I finally found something that Hanes didn't (or COULDN'T?) answer......

GOM = Guilford of Maine

Do your search on that and you will get more hits than you can shake a stick at.
post #33 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlogan6797 View Post

I finally found something that Hanes didn't (or COULDN'T?) answer......

GOM = Guilford of Maine

post #34 of 55
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rfbrang
We decided on a drop ceiling to cover up some of the existing issues that hang a little low from the original house build. I want to keep it as close to the rafters as possible, I'm hoping we don't loose more than 3 inches. The walls were insulated when we moved in, our worst heating bill for 1780sq ft was only $230 in 3 winters. Is it still a good idea to use insulation with a drop ceiling? If we leave the paper on both sides it wouldn't get too messy would it???
Quote:
You can do drop ceilings as some have done, but drywall is better for sound containment purposes, as it has more mass and any builder should be easily able to do soffits and such to accommodate pipes, etc. If you prefer the look of drop ceilings that's one thing, but it's usually just as possible to hide the crap in the ceilings with drywall and some clever framing. If you want to dampen sound from footfalls above the basement, and sound escaping the basement, fiberglass insulation with a drop ceiling is still probably worthwhile. It won't stop the sound exchange, but it will likely help a bit and it doesn't cost much.
A few questions about the drop ceiling vs sheetrock...

We had been going with the drop ceiling idea because we like the look, but we just checked local prices and it's $30 for a decorative 2x2ft square at home depot!!!!! At that price, I can't imaging something with a sound minimizing backing could be that much more. What ceiling tiles have you guys used and where have you found them???

If we did shy away from the drop ceiling, and went with sheetrock, we really need to dampen the sound between the basement and upper floors(my wife hears everything and is a very lite sleeper). Would something like this work by stapeling it to the back of the ceilings/ main floor subflooring:

http://www.closedcellfoams.com/volara.html

What about eggcrate?

http://www.foamdistributing.com/prod...ceggcrate.html

Thanks all.
post #35 of 55
OK, NOW you need to talk to Ted White at the Soundproofing Company.
post #36 of 55
Yeah - Ted is definitely the go-to guy on all things sound related.

Having said that, you should know that there is a common misconception about acoustic tile drop ceilings possessing some sort of almost magical sound containment properties. In short, that is not the case at all, and sticking some sort of backing on regular tiles is equally ineffective, although probably a lot less wasted money. Bottom line is this: if your motivation for using a drop ceiling is sound containment, you are making a mistake as drop ceilings are not the way to go to control sound; mass is the secret, and drywall has much more mass than tiles in a drop ceiling, whether they are called "acoustic tiles" or not.

Ted will tell you that achieving significant sound containment requires a consistent and serious approach, and not just in your ceiling, as it will only be as effective as your weakest link. That is why I said earlier that since you have open walls and no plans for drywall ceiling, you should at least get a decent solid wood door at the top of the basement stairs. If you do double drywall with green glue in the ceiling but have open walls (as your plan has) and/or otherwise do little to soundproof, it will be better than nothing but you probably will be disappointed. Again, some treatment in the basement ceiling would be preferred to none, and I am not familiar with the products you linked, but I would not spend much on stuff claiming to work magic.

Sorry if this is the first you have heard of this, but better to know it sooner rather than later, so you can make informed decisions and have realistic expectations. So go to Ted's website and get up to speed on the topic, then come back with your questions. Maybe Ted will give you some feedback, but even if he doesn't there is a lot of great info on his website for free.
post #37 of 55
Thread Starter 
Wow.... still digesting the soundproofing ideas out there.

Project Update:
So far:
  • Left framed wall has been taken down
  • Waste water pipe was moved against the wall
  • Sump pump pipe has been re-goose necked to a 9" clearance
  • Pantry door frames have been framed
  • Picked up the first 9 of 17 packages of Roxul from Lowes
  • Radon sample has been sent out

Tomorrow:
  • Reframe the left wall
  • Move the H2O heater to the other side of the furnace/stairs
  • Cut the radon pipe out
  • Frame the New Pantry/Furnace/Rack/Stairs wall
  • Pick up the last 8pks of insulation

Some before and after, and a few other updates:
http://photobucket.com/basement_remodel Sheetrock

(The before and after were inserted first, and are actually the last few pictures)

We have changed our minds and decided to do double 5/8 sheetrock with GG, and double Roxul(3"D each layer) across the whole basement ceiling and the new interior wall. We will only do resilient channel and clips above the HT area(12x19) I know about flanking, but funds and WAF will just not allow more.

As a stroke of luck, the furnace stuck out just enough to demand a new wall in front of the current stairs framing. Soooo for a continuous wall, it will have to be detached from the stairs wall. Hopefully this will help reduce noise going up the stairs. Unfortunately the extra wall will take a few inches of space from the room.

Channel Clips question that have cropped up:

I called the soundproofing company earlier this week, but I was on lunch and didn't have time to finish my questions. They recommend the Whisper clips over the PAC RSIC-1 clips for my situation, and I thought I had it all figured out until my contractor noticed the wall calculation and the ceiling calculation net the same number of clips for the same space. Shouldn't the ceiling need more to prevent sagging???

The Acoustiguard YouTube video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bf5sy...eature=related

Given my 12x19' ceiling, if we thought of the ceiling as a wall: the "Height" is 12ft, and the "width" is 19ft.

From the video, clips should be 48" apart in a staggered grid along the width, but the height is variable. So for the 12' height, channels every 24" will need 7 channels total using 44 clips, if we use channels every 16" there will be channels total and 63 clips.

Should we go with one of these, or mix it do something in between???? Every 20"??? I just don't want to defeat the purpose of the clips by using too many making the ceiling too rigid and causing more flanking....

Thanks all.
post #38 of 55
Thread Starter 
When people say they are running conduit, do they mean they are running the cable they are installing now into conduit to isolate it, or for later add ins???

I just ran 5x 50ft 12guage speaker cables through a 1" conduit for the center, front right, upper right, and spares to keep it away from the house power cables. If the left wall power cable will be 12"+ away from any speaker cable, do I need conduit??? Or can I just let it hang freely in the wall. I know I need to support any cable within 2ft of a box. We are looking at running all wires tomorrow, and I would like to not need to pay an electrician for something I can figure out myself with a little help.

Also what about HDMI, and coaxial???
post #39 of 55
Great to hear you're making progress. That's more than many of us can say!

As for the ceiling plan and whisper clips, hopefully someone else will hop in and contribute as I have no real experience with that. However, I would certainly go with Ted/Soundproofing's advice over any contractor who does not have much, if any, experience in this area. Seems every contractor thinks they know better, despite lacking any actual experience in HT building.

On the conduit, I mentioned earlier that you don't necessarily NEED conduit for your low voltage cabling, and that many folks choose to use it so FUTURE upgrades are easy without opening up walls or ceilings. Some do, some don't.

Probably the key place to do this if anywhere would be between your PJ and equipment closet, since sure as hell 5 years from now your next PJ will need some new cable type to use the latest features. Just makes sure any conduit for hdmi is large enough diameter to actually pull the wide hdmi head through the conduit.
post #40 of 55
Speaking for myself, I ran the LV wiring outside the conduit so that it is empty for future use. A lot of guys are doing it that way.
post #41 of 55
Thread Starter 
So do you guys bundle them with zip ties inside the wall but not in conduit?

Would it be a problem to bundle 7x 12guage front speaker cables???

I have 3x 1", and 1x 1.25" PVC conduits running between the vent/air return system to the front of the room. I have speaker wire in 1, coax and RCA for the sub in the 2nd, HDMI will be in the big one, and one 1" free for expansion. I am thinking I can pull the speaker cable out and have 2 conduits for expansion.... Any thoughts on what can't be mixed in a bundle???

Tonight I will either run more conduit on the sides for Cat6 and more speaker wire, or just the cable depending on answers today.
post #42 of 55
I bundled the long runs from the back of the room to the front of the room and then just ran everything else along with the conduit. I don't recall tying it to the conduit. MY run to the front actually took a different path than the conduit because I could make tight turns with the wire alone that the conduit can't make.

Shouldn't be a problem to bundle speaker cables together Something like that I would tie together. I don't think there's a problem with running any of your listed cables together, but I'm not the expert. I will say that I ran everything through my soffit, all close together. I only kept the AC wiring apart from it.
post #43 of 55
Thread Starter 
Thanks for all the advise, and PM's everybody. I got some more cable ran, answered a few calls for work, and got a few other odds and ends ready for the contractor tomorrow. I will try to catch up, and snag some pictures tomorrow night or thurs. Now it's time to shower off all the fiberglass I should have taken down in the first place... G'nite all.
post #44 of 55
Thread Starter 
No updates until this weekend, the flooding in our region has slowed us down. I ran some more Cat6 cable last night but otherwise no changes

New thoughts and Questions:

The easy one: I have seen mention of a rf controller antennae in the center of the HT ceiling for control. What type of cable should I run for it. I can put up blocking and cable, but will need to find specifics when time permits.

The tougher Q: We want to run cable for cameras so we can check on our kids/dog in the basement, outdoor play areas, and our exterior doors. Any Idea how to set this up or what to run while we still have access to the basement ceiling? I was thinking we would want to run all cables to the rack to centralize everything. I am assuming it is best to apply the power to the cameras at the rack, is this correct??? What type of cable allows for this?

Possible camera locations:
Cameras for the 2 baby rooms
3 exterior doors
Garage camera
basement family room
3x back yard & massive hill(one should be able to zoom in on the hill)

Thanks again all.
post #45 of 55
Can't help you at all with the James Bond whole house camera set up - haven't done anything like that.

As for the RF remote & antenna issue: you don't need anything on the ceiling or even in the room. I use this very reasonably priced RF extender and recommend it as well. It lives in my equipment closet/back of the rack, where it "attaches" to your equipment via hardly noticeable tiny cables, and to control it all you simply add a transmitter thing in your regular remote's battery compartment. It looks like a space ship, but it works fine, and no running cables and crap everywhere inside your room.
post #46 of 55
Thread Starter 
So I recently picked up some materials to build the stage and have a few questions.

The finished room is:
18' 9" D
7' 4.5"H
the stage area is 14' 4" W

Because of the light room color, I want to do a black AT screen wall, stage, and matching upper marquee(???). But the marquee can only be 41" deep because of pot lights. Does that automatically make the stage 41"D too? We will just have a couch for viewing initially, so the room @18'9" minus 3'6" for the stage, minus ~3' for the couch to be off the back wall puts eyeballs at 12'.
  • Is this stage too deep?
  • How much depth should I allot for the screen and supports? Was thinking 4"x4" for a end zone type support beams, and 2-3" for the screen assembly itself.
  • How much space between the false wall and lip of screen?
  • The Deck will be 12" high. should I do a 6" step for looks?

I had this image in another thread I had started. This is the general idea


Black stage, AT screen wall, black velvet drapes that pull up the side walls.

Thanks,
Robbie
Edited by rfbrang - 6/27/13 at 12:33pm
post #47 of 55
Thread Starter 
Two extra photos



post #48 of 55
Thread Starter 
Might have messed up on the decking I purchased... Got two sheets of Sheathing Plywood( 1 layer), and three sheets of 4x8 MDF(for 2 layers). I was working off of memory when I picked it up, should I have gotten OSB instead of the MDF? I got the MDF because it was the heaviest I could find... Issue?
post #49 of 55
Hey Robbie,

Good to see you back at it! I admire your penchant for quick action, as you are apparently not naturally a "measure twice, cut once" kinda guy, are you?! wink.gif

I'm glad to see you seem to have come around to the idea of building a DIY AT screen wall. I always thought it would make the best use of your space there, especially with that sump pump in the corner that requires some way to access. I have seen a number of methods of building the wood structure for an AT screen wall, many of which are very simple once you see the method. I know I linked BIG's wall but there are plenty of others if you search. I would think that would be the quickest way to see various ideas that you could adapt for your use.

EDIT: Here's a link to a screenwall thread if you haven't already seen it. Should be some good examples to consider in there.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/769702/show-us-your-screen-walls/0_60

I don't think the stage and ceiling portion/marquee needs to be identical at all. That's a matter of taste & room constraints.

As for your stage questions, can you first clarify how much of your stage plan is being driven by working around your existing sump pump "cabinet" in the floor? How are you planning retaining access to the sump pump after the stage is added? How far out from the back wall does the sump pump cabinet/obstruction project? Given how much room space you would lose to the stage, have you considered the option of removing the floor cabinet and simply enclosing the sump pump entirely behind your AT screen wall?

Finally, when time permits, let us know how your project went so far. How is the sound control issue? More photo updates?
Edited by hanesian - 7/5/13 at 7:28am
post #50 of 55
Thread Starter 
Hey, thanks for the reply. I am at work at the moment and will update pics after we get our kids to bed tonight. There is a French drain that feeds into the sump pit in our historically dry basement so I feel comfortable building the stage around the sump box.

I had a chance to frame the beginning of the stage around the sump pump box. I was going to just say screw the carpet and fill the surrounding bays around the pit with sand for resonance. I built the basic frame, have added the protruding corners, and have made several attempts to build a curve template.

To cut the curve, I used Ted White's website suggestion found here: http://tedwhite.homestead.com/stage.html but results have either not been deep enough or more recently I realized I need about 9-1/2' long template, and a much steadier hand with a jig saw. My first solution started by just cutting the 2x6 for the step thinking I would be able to eyeball a curve.... that didn't work... then I had ripped down a 4x8 1/4 panel to 10" wide pieces to follow Ted's example but I need a longer piece for the template. Now I'm just waiting on another day I can slip away from the family to work on it again.

So I purchased all that OSB and MDF, I am afraid the MDF will swell in my garage, so I am clearing out a space in the basement to store it until I can work again. Can I use both the MDF and OSB in this stage construction? I could have sworn MDF was for the stage, but now I see it mostly used for speaker boxes...

The sound containment is awesome. I hooked up my Onkyo TX-NR 808 to my different Polks at one time or another with just regular radio. The little sound we can hear comes from the door between the basement/kitchen stairs, and now that I took all of the doors off between the storage space and the media room, we can faintly hear sound in the kids rooms through the ducting which is getting picked up in the storage room. I have a Masonite door in the garage waiting to get painted (too hot and humid in the garage right now) to test at the kitchen threshold. If that works better, I will replace all the basement doors with the Masonites and then use duct liner and Roxul to fill around the vent feed and return.
post #51 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by rfbrang View Post

Hey, thanks for the reply. I am at work at the moment and will update pics after we get our kids to bed tonight. There is a French drain that feeds into the sump pit in our historically dry basement so I feel comfortable building the stage around the sump box.

I may not be understanding you correctly when you say 'build the stage around the sump pump', but I would urge you to maintain some sort of access to your sump pump pit no matter how dry your basement is historically. Otherwise you won't even be able to periodically check and maintain the pump, much less quickly respond to some sort of accident. And if you've read many build threads here you will find WAY too many such water/sump pump related problems, many of which do not involve water from the outside but accidents that originate INSIDE the house, from overflowing tubs, to burst pipes, to broken hot water heaters. I don't want to sound too pessimistic, but accidents happen far too often, and finishing your basement seems to magically increase the odds of an accident happening! wink.gif

I am still trying to understand your set up and why you wouldn't simply bury the whole sump pump behind a AT screen wall, along with your speakers and that electrical panel? Maybe when you post photos it will help us understand your situation better.
post #52 of 55
Thread Starter 
Hanesien: Sorry I missed updating.
Quote:
I may not be understanding you correctly when you say 'build the stage around the sump pump', but I would urge you to maintain some sort of access to your sump pump pit no matter how dry your basement is historically.

Our contractor built a box around our sump pump, so I butted the stage frame up to it.


Unfortunately, I was taking too long for my wife and I lost the battle to carpet the room after the stage was build. Our kids have been able to use the space since last spring, so we are happy with it, but the Mrs. finally realizes what I was saying now that I build it on top of the carpet... I asked for a remnant if future homeowners ever remove the stage.

The Stage construction was pretty rough too. One layer of plywood, 2 layers of MDF, and a nice layer of birch to install the carpet on. I didn't intend to need so many layers, but I did not realize how much the 2x10 would sink into the carpet. In hindsight, I wish I had just got 2x12 to build the frame. When I built the four layers, I kept taking them outside to cut so the middle two layers(MDF) didn't destroy the rest of our space. There were adjustments to each layer as I learned to use my new router which I knew could be an issue at final installation. After all I did to guatantee a matching edge, they do not line up, and because I used MDF I can't take a belt sander to it in this space. I hope using carpet pad over the edge will help the edge look better once finished.



The misaligned edges



Edited by rfbrang - 9/26/13 at 9:33am
post #53 of 55
Thread Starter 
Since the front wall has our power box, and the whole area needs to break down if we need to access the sump pump or power box, we did not use linacoustic. Pending the stage carpet installation, the corner traps and the first two sound deadening panels built and dry fit on the stage. I used 24"wide Roxul S&S, 1x2, 1x3, and some black cloth from Joann's to start. I am thinking we will need to swap out the cloth with some GOM when $ permits. To get things rolling this week, I threw up some black bedsheets over the light blue walls so we could finally get an image from our PJ.


I built a 120"W x 68"H frame with spandex and screen tight. When I made it to home depot, I bought the materials on a whim and got 1x3 instead of 1x4 for the outside frame. The frame is pretty flimsey at this size, so I got 1x4 for two center supports. I am sure we will either need to rebuild this frame with 1x4 or upgrade to Seymour at some point, but this is awesome for figuring out what we like.


This shot is just the gray spandex. With the lights on you can see the supports.


With the Gray and White over it, you cannot see the center supports. We stretched the spandex just enough to have no wrinkles.
post #54 of 55
Thread Starter 
Since I am waiting on our stage carpet, the center supports are pressure fit in the current space, and the screen is gently leaning against it with some clamps at the top. The image is a slight trapezoid and does not yet fill the screen, but that is fine until I can get some help mounting the PJ. Our BenQ W1070 will be ceiling mounted about 2ft behind where it is on the table now.


I have another post going in the DIY Screen forum trying to figure out how to get someone to sew curtains for us. I have 6 yards of SyFabric Triple Black Velvet for sample and plan to order more. Our local place quoted us 1K just to sew it. Hopefully I can make it to Joann's to see what business cards they have. Looking for a local seamstress in our area. We want a double sided curtain to pull up from the stage to slightly past the right post.


And a single sided panel to go up the left side
post #55 of 55
Thread Starter 
Something I am debating getting done this fall is building an equipment cabinet instead of buying an MA slim 5. It will go here.


On the other side of the wall in our unfinished space


The other side of the sheetrock


The left side of the rack space is 71" high and is limited by the stairs. The area to get cut out is 19.5"wide at the top and 20" wide at the bottom. I am thinking I will need to cut out the right 2x4 for more space to fit the rack...



So future developments will include...
  • Figure out if we will buy or build a rack
  • Buy GOM for the stage panels
  • Buy more velvet for curtains and have them made
  • Install the stage carpet
  • Install the power box and water cabinet doors
  • Build more absorption panels
  • Figure out how to make the screen and PJ perpendicular for permanent mounting
  • Cut out the rack space
  • Move equipment to the basement
  • Get theatre seating(My in-laws are giving us their man room furniture)
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