3D MTS files from a Sony HDR-TD10 - Page 3

I agree with Wolfgang. You have to understand the limitations of your TD10 and the restrictions of the 3DBD standard. 1080i 29.97 fps ( the format used by the TD10 ) is not a 3DBluRay standard. There are only 2, 720 60p x 1280 and 1080 24p x 1920. ( in NTSC world). Vegas Pro v11 can convert your TD10 clips to either and make a 3DBD that will play in any 3D Blu Ray player. I have done it playing in both my Panasonic and OPPO 3D players. Sony did release a non standard AVCHD 2.0 player but I don't use one here. AVCHD 2.0 produces a non-compatible disk as it is not a standard.

In my classes on shooting and editing 3D, the discussion is ALWAYS shoot in 24 FPS for 3D when the distribution is for BluRay 3D disks when you want highest resolution and image quality. Conversion will lead to conversion artifacts, some worse than others.

I have gotten personally acceptable results using the TD10 3D video and converting to 24 fps for preserving the pixel resolution of 1920, however, I will not claim that is acceptable when viewed on a display lower than 240 Hz. I use that system here only because it plays fine on my 240 Hz projection system. It looks too juddery on my 60 Hz 3D Vizio panel. So this means that you may be able to achieve personal non standards that are superior, you won't have a 100% compatible result.

Sony is working with the BluRay commission to upgrade the standard to support 4K (2160p). Perhaps the extra bandwidth will also be used to support full 3D HD resolution at 60p.

Trying to figure out to burn Blu Ray 3D disk from the 3D video made by a Sony HDR-TD10.

Amzing... offical answer from Sony... it CANT BE DONE... no wonder the company is going down.

I've tried with the latest version of PMB (with the 3D addon as per their support section) and it created a 2D blue ray disc. I've tried with the latest version, purchaed, of PowerDirector, HD 1020x1080/24p, H.264 BDMV,3D-BD. When I put the disc in my Sansung Blu Ray 3D player it says it's data disc and don't see anything on it. Power DVD does read it and play...

Please, what is the MOST SIMPLE way to ARCHIVE our Sony TD10 3D Movies? Should I but a specific Sony 3D player? Burn blue ray disc with a particular software, etc...

What a piece of sh!t this product is... Sony did not think of this one completly and just it to the market... Like if Toyota would say, "hey, here's a new car, have fun" without telling you that there is not going to be a way to get replacement tire when they're done... amazing!!! Thinking of returning that camera and their brand new 65" HD/3D display I've got. Sorry for the tone of this message but as you see I'm upset...

S.

After a quick search, anyone can tell me if the new Sony BDPS590 player can help???

I see you can plug in the usb port external storage. Could an external drive with the TD10 m2ts 3D movies play directly? It supports AVCHD 2.0 etc... Or processing of the files would be needed by PMB before storage, etc???

Appreciated for any help!
S

For me, the one and only one method to play HDR-TD10 files in full 1080i resolution without any quality loss is from the attached camcorder itself and only via supplied HDMI cable. By using PMB utility we can combine files, write them back to the camcorder, meaning the only suitable way to archive our movies is a stack of 64 gb SDXC cards - they are down to $50/piece and dropping.
A bit more expensive way than BD-Rs, and a camcorder is required to play, but still - doable.
And sooner or later there will be a player capable of playing AVCHD 2.0 files in 1080i mode, or a software solution to burn jitter free 1080p-24 converted files.

I agree that Sony Vegas Pro should be able to create a Blu Ray 3D disk. In fact it WAS possible in version 10D--not 10E. It all changed with 10E.

You may possibly be wrong regrading PMB. I was able to create a 3D Blu Ray disk with PMB 5.8 without a 3D menu. But it played 3D. You need PD 10 for a 3D menu. The disk played TD10 clips at 1080i using a Sony S580 and S780 Blu Ray player. If the 3D plugin was working properly, you should have the option of selecting 2D or 3D.

PMB has now been replaced by Play Memories Home which is a free download from the PMB 5.8 check updates menu. You do not need a 3D plugin. Just select Blu Ray and it will give you the option of 2D or 3D.

Good luck.

Marty

Untrue. You probably don't know how but it is still capable of 2D and 3D Blu ray burning from within Vegas Pro V11 as well as v10e. What did happen in 10e was the procedure to burn the 3D BD changed. The new procedure has been reviewed repeatedly.

Are you sure about 1080i 3D on S580 and S780?
Anyone can confirm?
I also would like to know about S590 as well.
Thanks.

Don:

I was a contributor to the thread and am familiar with the procedure.

What I said is true, and I do know how. You could burn a 3D Blu Ray disk within 10D. All you can do with 10E or 11 is burn an image and then use another program such as ImgBurn to create the disk. Please note VE2FET's comment that Sony advised him it can't be done. Shouldn't that be sufficient?

If I am wrong please explain how I can burn a 3D BD disk WITHIN Vegas Pro 11 and not need another program. If you can tell me how, I stand corrected.

I was also skeptical about burning a 3D disk at 1080i. There is a display button on the S780 which provides disk data at the top. It shows the video at 1080i. Please note that I used the new Home Memories program, not PMB 5.8.

I can't speak for my S580 which is not connected to a 3D display or the
S590.

I would be happy to take a picture of the screen showing the display. All I need is your email address.

Marty

It is simple. Create the 3D ISO. Then switch the project settings from 3D to 2D. Then burn the 3D ISO.

Sure, apparently you missed the second part. It's really really easy. The reason why Sony did what they did between 10d and 10e was this age old issue of the BDA making unreasonable demands on any use of iso in software. Sony was forced to do this but left us with a self contained work around. When I mentioned that they don't support the process with instructions in the help file Sony reps won't explain but respond with the above coercion. Probably that's why the method is not acknowledged. So now you know why it was done and why Sony probably won't admit the work flow exists. Here's how to do it internally-

After you rendered your 3D iso file to your hard drive, go back into the File Properties and shut off the 3D. Now go to your tools/ burn disk / blu Ray disk and select burn image to disk. Be sure the file path to your 3D iso file is still there. Place your blank BD-R in the drive and burn the iso to the disk. Told you it was simple. Don't know how you missed the Part 2 to the process. No other program needed.

Went to the Worst Buy and got S590. Did a firmware update. The same 720p mode on passive 3D (LG), no 1080i. Another return...
Sony cannot produce a player capable of playing it's own camcorder's clips.
Funny.

I think it was explained earlier that for 3D BD there are only 2 compatible formats, 720 60p and 1080 24p and neither are what the camcorder outputs. Nearly all the commercial 3D BD are 1080 24p. To play the original content from the HDR TD10 you have to use a direct connect from the camcorder to your AVR that is 1.4 HDMI compliant. This bypasses the specification limits in the standard for Blu Ray Disks. Then its just what your 3D monitor can handle. Sony did make a player that would play AVCHD 2.0 but I recall this was for 2D only. Richard Adams here was experimenting with that as I recall so you may wish to do some searching in the threads. He was using a special version of PMB to make the non compliant disk. Sony VegasPro does not support AVCHD 2.0 either. I don't believe he was ever able to make a AVCHD2.0 disk that played 3D either.

What software is that, do you have a link?

Edit: is it this one: http://andriasang.com/objn9j/playmemories/

I don't have a link. The last time I ran PMB 5.8, it prompted me to update to Play Memories Home which is the successor to PMP 5.8. I was just on line and was prompted to update to version 1.3. Try dong a search for Play Memories Home 1.3

Marty

Don:

I read what you say and also see what the screen shows me.

I just tried three DVDs and this is the result using a panasonic GT30 3D plasma and Sony S780 Blu Ray player:

1. Any Given Sunday 2D Blu Ray movie
The display button on the remote shows 1080 24P

2. Avatar 3D Blu Ray movie
The display button shows 1080 24P 3D

3. Sony TD10 camera -several clips from a recent vacation shot in 1080 60i
BD RE disk made using the new Play Memories Home program which is the successor to PMB 5.8

The TV shows the disk as BD RE
The display button on the Blu Ray player remote shows 1080 60i.

Maybe I am interpreting something wrong, but I am also quoting exactly what I see.

I am anxious to hear how you interpret this.

Marty

OK, I stand corrected. I must have been away from school or just forgot!!

Hey Marty- Did you imply that you ARE seeing 3D video from the BD-RE you burned with the updated Play Memories software at 1080 60i? If so, then I'm sure Richard Adams would be interested to hear this. As I said before I never tried to use PMB in this way to burn a disk. I only made 3D BD from VegasPro or PD10. But Richard Adams was trying to do it and as I recall he could not get AVCHD 2.0 to do 3D on his Sony BD Player. Besides me not being interested in burning 3DBD of camera clips as others want to, I don't even own the Sony Player that is supposed to see the AVCHD2.0 files ( 1080 60i).

As for Play Memories, I had to look into it as I was never prompted to do the upgrade. However, in looking at the Help/About or upgrade page in PMB I see there is an offer to download the Play Memories, advertising it has additional features including some cloud space for storing your pictures to push to mobile devices. Here is what is stated:


Seems this is an offer from the Play Station 3 division. I don't think it replaces the PMB but I could be wrong on that.
I guess if you want the special features it is OK to switch to but I'm not going to because my PMB v5.6 is working fine for what I use it for.

The one warning I would offer about PMB in general is that this application is special to your camcorder ( not all flavors are the same) and using a version of PMB that came with another Sony Camcorder, even a later version number, may not work properly with the HDR TD10 video files. When the TD10 first came out there were a few new owners here who tried to use PMB from other Sony camcorders and ended up corrupting their video in the process. At that time I warned everyone to switch to the PMB on the disk that is FOR the HDR TD10.
If Play Memories is working fine, great! but if you have strange problems like the files don't stitch together properly or you lose 3D, better consider that what you are using is not compatible with your camcorder model.

Don:

I am off to the doctor in a minute. Just a quick reply with more to come later.

I am seeing pristine 3D (to my amateur eye!) with the 1080 60i BD-RE disk burned with Play Memories 1.2. I will send you a more detailed reply sometime today.

Marty

Ok, PMB just prompted to upgrade to PlayMemories Home 1.3 this morning. I did it and burnt a disk using that new program.
No difference - 720p60 on ANY 3D display - I tried both - active and passive displays , no 1080i. Period.
Player - the newest BDP-S590

Could anyone try with files imported from the TD10 onto a memory stick and then connected to the USB port of the S590 or other? And to try files copied from the PC to the memory stick exported from PMB or other Sony software ie PlayMemories, then the stick to the usb port of the player?

Don:

I am back and will live for at least another day!

Just to make certain I am not leading you guys astray, I created another disk with some different TD10 clips from a recent trip using Play Memories Home and a BD-RE disk.

When I inserted the disk into the S780 Blu Ray player, what came up on the TV screen was "BD-RE". When I pressed play, I was looking at a beautiful 3D clip. Once again, I pressed "display" on the Blu Ray remote and what came up on the TV was 1080 60i (3D). I have done it enough times to know that it is definitely 1080 60i 3D.

I was able to combine the clips using Play Memories Home as I was using PMB 5.8.

To help others trying to get 3D 1080 60i clips, here is my recollection as to what happened:

The TD10 shipped with PMB 5.6 which worked fine for my purposes. There was a string on this board, perhaps started by Richard Adams mentioning that a new PMB version, 5.8 would support AVCHD 2.0 using the Sony S580 Blu Ray player. I updated PMB to 5.8 and added in the Blu Ray 3D option.

I bought the S780 and updated it to support AVCHD. From that point on, using PMB 5.8 and subsequently Play Home Memories, I have been able to burn Blu Ray 3D disks from TD10 clips.

Since PMB 5.6 suits your purposes, you do not need 5.8 or subsequent versions although the upgrade is free.

I know Olegy has had problems creating a 1080 60i disk. Since he has the most recent Play Memories version, I can only suggest that he try to update the firmware on the Sony S590 which may or may not be the successor to the 580 which worked well for me before I got the S780. Perhaps the S590 may not support AVCHD 2.0.

That is my recollection of how I reached the point where I can create 1080 60i clips.

Is it possible for me to take digital pictures of the TV screen and upload two of them:

1. showing BD-RE disk upon insertion of the disk

2. Showing 1080 60i (3D) disk when I press display on the Blu ray remote.

I would be happy to do it if someone can explain if / how I can upload the pictures.

Marty

I looked online and saw that the S590 supports 1080 i and P. There were two recent firmware updates. Check to see if you have the most recent version and try to play the clips again.

Can you return the S590 and buy the S780? That one works for sure!

Marty

Marty- You and I recall about the same. I don't recall Richard Adams ever having success with AVCHD doing 3D however. I'm glad you are getting what you want and hope you can help olegy get to the same level of performance.

FWIW- I have taken a completely different route for playing my 3D video. Today, I rarely burn a BD-RE or BD-R. Instead, I'm shooting all my video for later editing regardless of how simple the clip is. Therefore all my work passes through (1.) PMB 5.6 or I use the Device manager in Vegas Pro. then (2.) I render to iso file or I export as TB Full to PD10 and author a menu based compilation and convert the folder structure from PD10 to an iso using DVDFAB. Either way I have the iso but as I'm not planning any distribution, I archive the iso's on a hard disk. I have 4- 2Tb disks in cradles with USB connection to my OPPO BD93 that is not updating. I use this to play the 3D iso files just as if I burned a disk and inserted it. OPPO's with new firmware can't do this.

Presently, I am very pleased with the results I'm getting and use 1080 24p 1920 for all my work. Vegas V11 has a really great 60i to 24p conversion that is as smooth as needed. But my projector is a 240Hz. When I look at the 24p video conversions from TD10, the motion artifacts are there.

My highest quality 3D shooting has been 1080 24p using twin cameras in a side by side variable IA rig. I have not completed any projects yet with this video. I have looked at sample clips and the results are just stunning, even on the 60 hz monitor since there is no conversion. I have two projects in the can waiting to edit and they are two documentaries, Bryce Canyon National Park and Valley of Fire Nevada state park. Each consisted of 4 days of shooting over a 4 month period this year.

I highly doubt, the S780 is going to produce 1080i 3D in my setup. There is nothing special in this player, especially considering the fact that all other players, including newer ones do not produce it. Who knows why? Still, Marty, is there a way you can take a cell phone picture or something and post it here or email me ( check your private messages for the address). It might give me some clues.
I can live with it for now, playing my videos through the camcorder itself, waiting for a capable player or a simple software solution (60i -> 24p).
What Don is proposing requires a very powerful processor and a lot of time for rendering.
My current Core 2 Quad Q6600 renders clips in Vegas at about 3 frames/sec, PD10 - about 1 frame/sec. In order to produce 2 hour 3D BD-R, I'll need to process (2x3600x30)= 216000 frames. It's take 20 hours in Vegas and more than 60 hours in PD10. More than three days at 100% CPU load. I can imagine my power bill.

Can anyone advise whether they are achieving frame-packed 1080i60 3D from the HDMI output of an AMD Radeon HD 7000 series graphics card, when running a software player with an AMD 3D driver option, such as Stereoscopic Player or TotalMedia Theatre 5?

I'm finding with my Radeon 6450 card that the output is being limited to 1080p24 3D, even though the m2ts file transferred from the TD10 camera and being played is 1080i60 3D. (The 7000 series cards are much more powerful than the 6000 series and the specifications include "2560x1600p60 Stereoscopic 3D".)

[I'd just mention for burning to Bluray that the visible resolution I'm getting out of my TD10 takes a hit when converted to 1280x720p60 but it isn't a drastic hit, and you retain the motion fluidity, compared with a framerate conversion to 1920x1080p24.]

I've tried S780 as well. No 1080i60 for me. I know it is possible ( got screen shots from Marty), but no go on my both active and passive TVs.

I don't know why I was successful in getting a 3D Blu Ray disk to play in 1080 60i when others could not.

Here is a rundown of the process for anyone interested.

The hardware is a Sony TD10 camera, a Panasonic GT30 plasma TV and a Sony S780 Blu Ray player with the latest firmware update.

My computer is a PC with a Sandy Bridge i7 3930 chip with 16G of ram. I have three hard drives and import all clips to the D: drive.

Here is my work flow:

I connect the camera to the computer with a USB 2.0 cable. The clips are imported using either PMB 5.8 or Play Memories Home V1.2 (they both work)

With the clips imported, I select "Create Disc" and choose whatever clips are going into the movie. I then select "Edit" and "Combine Clips" so they play uninerrupted. (Thanks to Mark for pointing that out).

I then select the Blu Ray option which gives a selection of either 2D or 3D.
A 3D disc is then burned. I use BD-RE to avoid either coasters or unwanted demo videos.

I then put the disk into the S780 which recognizes it as a 1080 60i clip and it plays that way on the TV. No selections on the Blu Ray player are necessary.

That's it.

Good luck to Oleg or any others who are trying to get the same 1080 60i videos.

Marty

The only thing which is different between Marty's and my setup is a type of TV screen.
He uses plasma, both of my 3D TVs are LED LCDs. - Toshiba 46WX800 46" 1080p 240 Hz 3D LED TV (active) and LG 55LW5600 55" 3D LED 1080P 120HZ (passive)
Again who knows.. Will wait for another player from a different manufacturer, sooner or later it will appear.