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Mad Max: Fury Road - Page 2

post #31 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovieSwede View Post

I was thinking Road Runner.

LOL!
A better quip than mine.

Did Max drive a Road Runner?
Seems to me he did, but I am not sure....
post #32 of 130
The black interceptor was a early 1970's Australian Ford Falcon XB GT Coupe.
post #33 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

LOL!
A better quip than mine.

Did Max drive a Road Runner?
Seems to me he did, but I am not sure....

Nope. He drove a souped up 1973 Ford Falcon XB GT - and no - you can't engage and disengage a supercharger by just pushing a button. It runs all the time. It is driven by the crank pulley.
post #34 of 130
That is true. Roots blowers are the real deals.
post #35 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by FendersRule View Post

That is true. Roots blowers are the real deals.

Trust me here...twin-screw.
post #36 of 130
Behind The Real Mad Max Cars



http://www.lastinterceptor.com/real.html
post #37 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Behind The Real Mad Max Cars



http://www.lastinterceptor.com/real.html

Too cool.
How can anyone NOT love that?
post #38 of 130
"Another addition to the black car was the prolific Weiand 6-71 Supercharger bulging though the hood. This supercharger had a real Scott injector hat (now a nostalgic drag racing piece) sitting above it, yet all of this was just a movie prop mind you, and was not functional in real life. The internals (rotors) were taken out, and it sat on a stand above the block, and also above a four-barrel carburetor which is what actually fed the gas/air mix to the engine."

Too bad, although I can see why they didn't use a real blown motor.

larry
post #39 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by PooperScooper View Post

Too bad, although I can see why they didn't use a real blown motor.

larry

"Mad Max" was just brilliant - revolutionary? - in terms of production design, and "The Road Warrior" took it to another level still. I don't know why you couldn't have the blower on a switch, however - just rig up some kind of clutch mechanism that engaged the drive pully when the switch was flipped.

I drive a Jag XKR and my motor's supercharger doesn't look like that. Wish it did though.
post #40 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by PooperScooper View Post

Too bad, although I can see why they didn't use a real blown motor.

larry

Agreed.
A movie production can't afford to have anything but absolutely 100% reliable props/equipment.
Anything less could end up costing a ton.
post #41 of 130
Yea. Blowers take some maintaining. They probably went through a couple cars, which means a couple blowers to maintain.

Mad Max is the better movie if you are a car fan. As I've said above, there are awesome things about both MM and RW.
post #42 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

I don't know why you couldn't have the blower on a switch

I can't see the purpose of one.
However, with Nitrous there is a switch to engage.


Quote:


I drive a Jag XKR and my motor's supercharger doesn't look like that. Wish it did though.

My Ford Lightning and Cobra don't have their SC sticking up thru the hood.
Both sit right on top of the intake manifold and are small and compact (like your XKR).

I knew there was a reason we get along so well....
We share similiar tastes in vehicles.
post #43 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

"Mad Max" was just brilliant - revolutionary? - in terms of production design, and "The Road Warrior" took it to another level still. I don't know why you couldn't have the blower on a switch, however - just rig up some kind of clutch mechanism that engaged the drive pully when the switch was flipped.

I drive a Jag XKR and my motor's supercharger doesn't look like that. Wish it did though.

There are two main types of superchargers:

1. Roots - what you see on the Mad Max car

2. Centrifugal - what you see on this 1966 Shelby GT350 Mustang:



I am using this picture so you can easily see the difference between the two types of superchargers

The roots does not have to be on top of the engine. It can also be to the side but the main component is that it uses rotors inside to create the pressure (boost) and the fuel and air are being fed through the supercharger:



The roots supercharger can also be a low profile - like what Ford uses:



Air and fuel are mixed before they enter the supercharger.

The centrifugal is a pump that pressurizes the fuel source (carb or fuel injection)

Your Jag looks like this right?



That's a centrifugal setup and it is using liquid intercoolers to cool the pressurized air before it hits the fuel injection. Pressurizing air raises it's temperature.

As far as engaging or disengaging a supercharger with a clutch type pulley? The belt will continue to spin no matter what. The whole idea with the Mad Max setup was to inject "drama" into the scene. Hit the button and the belt starts to move telling the audience . . . here comes the horsepower.

A supercharger usually adds 40% to 50% more horsepower over the basic horsepower rating of a non-supercharged engine. So a 350hp engine when adding a supercharger results in between 490hp and 525hp.

The 1966 and 67 Shelby GT350's had 306hp (from a Ford 289 CI engine) with the supercharger (a Paxton) they netted out to about 400 to 425hp

This is the zenith of a supercharged internal combustion engine - the Top Fuel 500 cubic inch Hemi engine that is supercharged, fuel injected and running on 85% nitromethane . . . making 8,000 horsepower



They consume between four and five gallons of fuel during a quarter-mile run, which is equivalent to between 16 and 20 gallons per mile and have a the fuel-line pressure of 400 to 500 pounds, about 20 times greater than the pressure on passenger-car fuel pumps.

Those two red MSD units are magnetos. There are two spark plugs per cylinder. They put out enough amperage that you can weld metal
post #44 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

I knew there was a reason we get along so well....
We share similiar tastes in vehicles.

In the immortal words of Maverick & Goose: "I got a need....for speed!"

I've always classified people as two types, forget meaningless stuff like gender, race, or political affiliation. You're either a car guy/gal, or you're not. I don't understand that second group and regard them with a combination of suspicion and curiosity.
post #45 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

There are two main types of superchargers:

1. Roots - what you see on the Mad Max car

2. Centrifical - what you see on this 1966 Shelby GT350 Mustang:



I am using this picture to you can easily see the difference between the two types of superchargers

The roots does not have to be on top of the engine. It can also be to the side but the main component is that it uses rotors inside to create the pressure (boost) and the fuel is being feed through the supercharger.

The centrifical is a pump that pressurizes the fuel source (carb or fuel injection)

Your Jag looks like this right?



That's a centrifical setup and it is using liquid intercoolers to cool the pressurized air before it hits the fuel injection. Pressurizing air raises it's temperature

Very cool! [JCarson]I did not know that.[/JCarson] Yes, that bottom picture is what I have. So, this type of supercharger both pressurizes and cools the air before it's injected into the cylinders? And the roots-type just essentially pressurizes both the air and fuel in one "stream" before injecting it, kind of like that F-14 that Maverick & Goose flew?
post #46 of 130
Centrificals are cool, but Roots blowers simply look the meanest and produce the most torque up front. Centrificals are great for keeping a low profile. Roots blowers are going to cause your engine to stick up out of your hood...which is no less than bad ass

The Mad Max car uses a roots blower. You cannot "turn it on" as Mad Max does in the film. Roots blowers stay on because the pulley stays active. You can increase or decrease the boost (PSI). Dad has a roots blower on his black 1982 Ford Mustang GT, which was heavily influenced from watching Mad Max.
post #47 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

I can't see the purpose of one.
However, with Nitrous there is a switch to engage.

Which they used in the Road Warrior - when Humungous was chasing Max after he filled his tanks and left the compound. Remember - the guy with the Mohawk turned on the valve and then H. hit the button.

Nitrous is great for short bursts of power at wide open throttle, but when the "bottle" runs dry (and it does quickly) it becomes worthless. Superchargers work all the time from idle to wide open throttle.

Quote:


My Ford Lightning and Cobra don't have their SC sticking up thru the hood.
Both sit right on top of the intake manifold and are small and compact (like your XKR).

I knew there was a reason we get along so well....
We share similiar tastes in vehicles.

See photo above - you have a low profile roots type supercharger.

The supercharger that sticks out of the hood was originally designed for diesel truck engines where hood clearance is not an issue. They come in many sizes - from 2-71 to 14-71 rated by their capacity per revolution.
post #48 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

Very cool! [JCarson]I did not know that.[/JCarson] Yes, that bottom picture is what I have. So, this type of supercharger both pressurizes and cools the air before it's injected into the cylinders?

For your Jag - yes. The air is cooled by the intercoolers. But that is not part of a centrifugal supercharger. Your engine was designed to alliveate one of the problems with supercharging - the increased air temp.

You can substitue a Turbocharger in that type of installation. A Turbo is really nothing more than a Centrifugal supercharger but instead of being belt driven by the crank, it is driven by the exhaust pressure of the engine.

Quote:


And the roots-type just essentially pressurizes both the air and fuel in one "stream" before injecting it, kind of like that F-14 that Maverick & Goose flew?

Correct.
post #49 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by FendersRule View Post

Centrificals are cool, but Roots blowers simply look the meanest and produce the most torque up front. Centrificals are great for keeping a low profile. Roots blowers are going to cause your engine to stick up out of your hood...which is no less than bad ass

Unless you use either a low profile top mount or a side mount. Then no hood issues - of course you have to use fuel injection.

The GMC style X-71 Roots blower with dual carbs on top definitely screams horsepower.




Quote:


The Mad Max car uses a roots blower. You cannot "turn it on" as Mad Max does in the film. Roots blowers stay on because the pulley stays active. You can increase or decrease the boost (PSI). Dad has a roots blower on his black 1982 Ford Mustang GT, which was heavily influenced from watching Mad Max.

The only way that I know of to increase the boost is to change the size of the pulleys. This allows the supercharger rotors to spin faster making more horsepower.

Remember, an engine is nothing more than a big air pump.
post #50 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

Agreed.
A movie production can't afford to have anything but absolutely 100% reliable props/equipment.
Anything less could end up costing a ton.

A real blown car is 100% reliable. The problem again is you can't create the "Hollywood Drama" by engaging and disengaging the supercharger like they did in the movie.
post #51 of 130
Or, a supercharger is no more than air pump, not really an engine.

Which means higher pressure.

Which means higher compression.

Which means, you need better quality parts. Forged pistons? Better have them. Professional turned/balanced crankshaft? Better have it. Which means you need more fuel to keep your engine from becoming too lean. Typically, this means a bigger carb (and dual pumping is a must). And you simply just can't "bolt" your new carb on. You have to really makes sure it's tuned properly. Oh, don't forget about your ignition. You'll need one that can dynamically retard/advance depending on the state of the engine. More money there, too. Now let's talk about performance issues. Roots blowers are torque monsters. How are your gears? Typically, with roots blowers, you want "weaker" gears. Anything from 3.00-3.33 is about right. A roots supercharged car with 4.10 gears is ridiculous for traction concerns. Also, how is your rear end? How are your axles? More torque = more chances if your axles snapping. Have those been upgraded too?

Hopefully the few can now see why the blower was a prop in the film. It requires lots of effort and work to setup. Especially if you need multiple copies. Maintaining isn't too bad if you've done all of the above correctly. I agree that a blown engine done correctly is just as reliable as any other engine. When you start to skimp out on parts, that is when you feel expect failure.

Even though Mad Max turning on his "blowa" in the first film is incorrect, I'm glad it's there because it really brings more attention to it.

The sound effects are exact. You hear the blower "whistle" as the vehicle accelerates. You don't even have to listen closely to hear it. That is the sound of sex.

I'll post a picture later of our "blowa"
post #52 of 130
When it comes to making horsepower there are many things that are taken into account such as:

Air temp - cool air makes more horsepower then hot air

Elevation - the closer to sea level, the more oxygen in the air. More OXY = more HP

Humidity - the more mositure in the air - the less HP an engine will make.

Modern engines with fuel injection and computers compensate for these changes. The engines from the 1960's Muscle Cars primarily used carbs so they were affected by the changes. Remember how many had Ram Air - that was to allow the engine to suck cooler air from outside of the engine compartment where the temp could be as high as 200 degrees hotter, along with getting more air into the carb when the car hit higher speeds though few accomplished this aspect.
post #53 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by FendersRule View Post

Or, a supercharger is no more than air pump, not really an engine.

Which means higher pressure.

Which means higher compression.

Which means, you need better quality parts. Forged pistons? Better have them. Professional turned/balanced crankshaft? Better have it. Which means you need more fuel to keep your engine from becoming too lean. Typically, this means a bigger carb (and dual pumping is a must). And you simply just can't "bolt" your new carb on. You have to really makes sure it's tuned properly. Oh, don't forget about your ignition. You'll need one that can dynamically retard/advance depending on the state of the engine. More money there, too. Now let's talk about performance issues. Roots blowers are torque monsters. How are your gears? Typically, with roots blowers, you want "weaker" gears. Anything from 3.00-3.33 is about right. A roots supercharged car with 4.10 gears is ridiculous for traction concerns. Also, how is your rear end? How are your axles? More torque = more chances if your axles snapping. Have those been upgraded too?

Hopefully the few can now see why the blower was a prop in the film. It requires lots of effort and work to setup. Especially if you need multiple copies. Maintaining isn't too bad if you've done all of the above correctly. I agree that a blown engine done correctly is just as reliable as any other engine. When you start to skimp out on parts, that is when you feel expect failure.

Even though Mad Max turning on his "blowa" in the first film is incorrect, I'm glad it's there because it really brings more attention to it.

The sound effects are exact. You hear the blower "whistle" as the vehicle accelerates. You don't even have to listen closely to hear it. That is the sound of sex.

I'll post a picture later of our "blowa"

The engine is the air pump. The supercharger is a compressor. Also, supercharged engines work best with lower compression - like 8.5 to 1.
post #54 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by FendersRule View Post

The sound effects are exact. You hear the blower "whistle" as the vehicle accelerates. You don't even have to listen closely to hear it. That is the sound of sex.

Now that's a car guy talking!
post #55 of 130
Yea. You have to use lower compression because of what superchargers do with the compression Your total net compression is going to be much more than 8.5:1. But yes, that's what you typically want to start at BEFORE setting the supercharger on your engine. It will be much more around 10.5:1 for a decently tuned street setup, depending on the PSI level on your "blowa."

I'm not a mechanical engineer, but to me, an engine is a little bit more than an air pump. An engine is a fuel/air/ignition pump. They do more than "suck in air." They suck in fuel, while providing a spark to mix with the air and fuel. This creates an explosion which means, power! Roots superchargers, by definition, are an air pump. They cram air into the engine via mechanically.

I use to be a car guy. Not so much anymore.
post #56 of 130
Carroll Shelby built a 1967 Shelby GT500 428 Police Interceptor dual quad engined Mustang Coupe called; "Little Red." It used dual centrifugal superchargers and made well over 600hp The engine bay looked very much like this:



This is the only known photograph of "Little Red."



It was sent to the crusher. One of the few Shelby Prototypes that didn't make it.
post #57 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

Now that's a car guy talking!

LOL - you can get the same "whine" a big roots type supercharger makes just by using a Muncie M22 "Rockcrusher" 4 speed transmission.
post #58 of 130
I became more of an Autobody guy not too long ago. Even still, I don't even do that anymore. I've painted many show cars. I get more pleasure out of sculpting and making cars beautiful than tinkering mechanically with stuff. Painted my dad's car, too. Going to post some pictures soon of his blown 302 w/ a roots.

I'm only 26, so I don't claim to know anything that I've said above, but I have a decent enough idea about the mechanics of an engine.
post #59 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by FendersRule View Post

Yea. You have to use lower compression because of what superchargers do with the compression Your total net compression is going to be much more than 8.5:1. But yes, that's what you typically want to start at BEFORE setting the supercharger on your engine. It will be much more around 10.5:1 for a decently tuned street setup, depending on the PSI level on your "blowa."

I'm not a mechanical engineer, but to me, an engine is a little bit more than an air pump. An engine is a fuel/air/ignition pump. They do more than "suck in air." They suck in fuel, while providing a spark to mix with the air and fuel. This creates an explosion which means, power! Roots superchargers, by definition, are an air pump. They cram air into the engine via mechanically.

I use to be a car guy. Not so much anymore.

Again, an engine is an air pump. You are using air, fuel and spark via the compression stroke, to get the engine to suck in air through it's induction system (carb, FI, etc). The more air/fuel you can get into an engine, the more horsepower it will make. But you have to have the correct air/fuel mixture. So the supercharger (or turbocharger) is a compressor - it compresses the fuel/air mixture feeding the engine more air (and fuel) then it could normally injest on it's own.

Ever notice Mercedes calls their supercharged cars; "Kompressor."
post #60 of 130
That's correct.
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