HSU HB1 Mk2 vs Energy RC-10 ??? - Page 2

Sorry for my delay in response. The HSU's have good imaging. As NixonRSX said earlier, the HSUs just seem to disappear. Here is a quick review I did of the HB1s:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post20587267

I have had Polk in-walls in the past and know that their tweeter is more forward than the HSUs. It actually made me question why I never thought (or rethought) about Polk bookshelfs. The Rti-a3 did sell at a higher MSRP than the HSU (and Infinity Primus); however, I think they make for a good HT speaker.

My Denon 2112 has a treble and bass adjustment settings, just like my previous Onkyo 605. I am not sure about the older models with Denon, sorry.


I don't hear any sort of port noise, or port noise reflection. The right speaker is more reinforced because of the wall. Audyssey set the right speaker with a +1 to compensate.

WhskyTango, I have to double check the exact distances Audyssey set for the HB1s.


As Interspy said, that article is using the original HB1. I would consider that article irrelevant as the mk2 is a different speaker. With all respect, I was actually a bit surprised the Polk monitor 30s reviewed so well. I always eyed the Rti series, but never spent time listening to the Monitor bookshelfs.

I agree with Iaintyourspy24, that going from a multiple driver tower to a bookshelf will be a notable step back if you are running in full range or double bass. You said you have a HSU sub, so I am assuming you cross the speakers at 80Hz. I will also say that if you prefer the more forward almost bright sound of Polks, the HSUs will be an initial shock. They are very neutral in sound. I find the Polks can get fatiguing if listening to material at loud levels or for an extended period of time. The HB1 mk2s is easy to listen to.

Sorry for my delayed response. My initial setting my Audyssey XT was
LEFT=12.4 ft CENTER=12.5 ft RIGHT=12.7ft.

I spent more timing adjusting the toe and lateral tilt (now pointing down a bit, more toward the listener). I was able to hear the sweet spot and understand the tweeter dispersement more. There is a notable sweet spot, and it is a bit focused (as InterSpyonyourmom24X said). It does sound good off-axis as well, but a bit more smooth vs the sweet spot.

I re-ran Audyssey XT, and the proportions for the distance remained the same. I did notice that I liked the sound even more with the new calibration. The sound was a little more lively and detailed.

So, I bought a pair of RC-10s a few weeks ago. Here are my initial impressions that I wrote down a couple of weeks ago:

The RC-10 seems more laid back than I expected. I will let them properly break-in before I make conclusions. I only connected 1 thus far, and still have the HB-1 connected on the other side. The tweeter seems WAAY laid back with the RC-10. I put my ear up to the tweeter to see if it was working. I did hear faint noise coming from it, so I am assuming it works.

Vocals on the HB-1 are more forward than the RC-10 thus far. With the HB-1, the artist seems to be standing on a mic at a distance similar to the speaker. With this fresh single RC-10, the vocals sounded like the artist was singing from a location behind the speaker. Also, the vocals did not sound as confident. I should specify that the demo was a bit flawed because 1) the test was done at the same volume where the HB-1 would naturally play louder (HB-1 is 2 db more sensitive), 2) the HB-1 has a wall directly behind it thus allowing some reinforcement, and 3) the RC-10 is new while the HB-1 is "broken in" (if that is even necessary).

It has been a few weeks and I connected both RC-10s (where the HB-1s were residing). I do feel like there is a difference in sound now that the RC-10s have had about 30 hours of material through it.

In MY room I feel like the HB-1 performs better. The RC-10 seems more laid back, and they sound smaller. The bass response with the HB-1 sounds more effortless and a deeper than the RC-10s. I will say that the highs with the RC-10 does sound fuller and more detailed, while the highs on the HB-1 seems thin. Keep in mind that these conclusions are from my room where wall placement is close.

Final follow-up:

I had trouble deciphering between the RC-10 and HB-1, so I decided to pack them both up and bring them to a local audio shop yesterday. I fell in love with a pair of PSB Imagine B speakers a few weeks back at this audio shop (Audio Concepts in Dallas). They are $1k/pair speakers. Yesterday I asked if we could do a comparison of my RC-10 and HB-1 versus the Imagine Bs.

The RC-10s were connected first. They were pulled 4 feet away from the back and side walls. We were about 8 feet from the speakers. The Energy's instantly created a wonderful large sound stage. The employee said that he is surprised that a speaker so small plays so large. They sounded full, played low and was very detailed. The imaging was amazing as well. I was so impressed.

Next the HB-1s were connected. I made the mistake of telling him the price of the HB-1s, $150 a piece. He was shocked at the quality of build and the piano finish at that price. The HB-1's took a turn for the worse once the demo started. The HB-1s instantly sounded like they were missing detail. They also did not play nearly as low, had a smaller sound stage and did not sound dynamic. The employee said that vocals sounded a bit "shouty" and "unresolving". I had to agree. In my room I thought the vocals sounded more confident, bass was low and full, and overall the HB-1 seemed to have a larger sound stage. I was surprised the difference a room and positioning can make!

Finally the PSB Imagine B were connected. The same material of Greg Brown ("Further In" album), Diana Kroll and others were played. The Imagine B had a wonderful neutral sound; however, it sounded less detailed than the Energy RC-10s. The RC-10s seemed to image a bit better. I will say that female vocals on the Imagine B had more emotion and character. Overall I would say that the RC-10 was the better speaker. The employee said that the RC-10 would give any speaker a run for their money at it's price point. I told him the RC-10 was $599

I walked into that demo telling the guy I was probably going to return the RC-10s. I realized the treasure I had with the RC-10s upon leaving the shop. I was initially in love with the Imagine B, but now I finally found favor with the RC-10.

Now this morning I started doing some more critical listening in my room with the RC-10s. Again, the sound stage seems a bit small and the bass seems a bit forced and boomy. I realize what a HUGE difference room and placement makes to the sound of speaker. I guess the HB-1 does better with close wall placement while the RC-10s need room to open up. As I said before, I think the HB-1 creates a larger sound-stage in my room with bass that sounds more effortless.

I appreciate the advice with getting the Klipsch. I may get a pair from BB to demo. I actually want to bring home the CB-20 and see how that sounds in my room. It seems to be mix between Energy and Klipsch (as it should be).

EDIT: One other interesting point is that the HB-1s were more efficient in my room; however, the RC-10s were more efficient in the demo room.

CONCLUSION:

I spent 4-5 hours today listening to the RC-10s (in MY room) with a variety of music. I finally swapped back in the HB-1s to re-analyze and compare. I must say I was a bit surprised. I left that audio shop doubting my own conclusions in my room. When I swapped the HB-1s I instantly noticed that the treble was much more forward. Cymbals and noises in that higher frequency range sounded crisp, but perhaps almost a bit harsh. I already know that I am not a big fan of very neutral speakers, so there are parts of that forward treble with the HB-1 that I found myself enjoying. I can confidently conclude that in MY room the HB-1 is a more forward speaker.

I initially thought that vocals were the strong point of the HB-1s compared to the RC-10. I now give the nod to the RC-10 in terms of vocal reproduction. I would also say that the RC-10 is a LITTLE more detailed. The highs are full and not colored.

The bass in the HB-1 still sounds large and effortless in my room. I swapped back in the RC-10 again today, and confirmed that the bass sounds boomy and shallow (in comparison to the HB-1). Also confirmed that the sound stage is much smaller with the RC-10 in MY room. With the HB-1 it almost sounds like a small sub is in use.

The RC-10 does sound more natural. It is amazing how the experiences in that show room (described in previous post) is almost opposite of my experiences in my own room. The HB-1 is more sensitive in my room, where the RC-10 required less gain in the show room.

I would still conclude that I would give the HB-1 the good nod for use in my room. If had the option to pull the speakers away from the walls and it was a rectangle sealed room like the show-room at Audio concepts, I would EASILY choose the RC-10s.

Crazy conclusions, but it is what it is. Que sera sera.

I have not decided if I will buy (borrow) a pair of CB-20s from BB. I won't have the time until next week. I will be honest, I also have the P163 on my radar as well. I have Infinity ES250 surrounds, and I like the sound of their MMD tweeters. I popped in Transformers 3 last night, and it has a ton of material that pans from front to back (and all around) in full range. I could clearly hear the change in tonality from the panning. This is the first movie that made me want to match the sound of my front and rears a little more.

Oh, and....Who Dat!!

NixonRSX, you speak the truth brotha! When I came to my conclusion after this journey, I thought of you. I guess it was nice for me to experience and confirm with my own ears. Like my good friend V-Pain (Interspy24) says, "if you can't tell the difference between 2 sets of speakers, choose the cheaper one". I think that my HB-1s are more attractive vs the RC-10s with the grill on. As I said earlier, even the Audio Concepts employee commented on the piano finish on the HB-1. He said that "the finish alone should be a $300 upgrade, not the cost of the speaker".

I am glad the pictures helped to give a good comparison to the size difference between the Energy speakers. The CB-20 has a more attractive shape, and honestly is the more handsome speaker. The RC-10 has a better finish, higher quality material in the box, veneer, posts, grill attachment, and the driver. To me, the CB-20 looks better in the room. The grill is cheaper and pressed in place (vs the magnet w/ the RC-10); however, the final look is much more attractive, contemporary, masculine and sleek.

A friend and I did a blind demo, where the listener was blind-folded and various speakers were swapped in/out. The person blind-folded would call out thoughts/comments, and the other person would write them down.

Background on us. I typically like a more forward speaker and primarily listen to HT material with my speakers. Interspy24 listens to a lot more music. He is a big fan of AV123 Rockets (owns the bad boy Rockets 850s, which is his main speaker), and enjoys an older pair of Energy bookshelf speakers he owns (two AC-300 center channels).

I was the first one blind-folded. My mistake is that I was trying to guess what speaker I was listening to. That caused me to focus on guessing what speaker I was listening to vs listening without preconceived notions. When I imagined I was listening to a specific speaker, I applied prior known characteristics I had of that speaker. This distracted me from being honest with my ears and thoughts. Interspy24 decided not to guess what speaker was being played. He simply listened and commented. His strategy was much better. I guess that marketing and research major paid off.

My comments on the RC-10: Highs not detailed and not mature, vocals sound a little more forward. This was the 2nd speaker played, and I thought it was the HSU!

My comments with the CB-20: Instantly liked the sound, detailed, forward, confident, vocal sounds good, they seem more efficient (b/c of noticeable increase in sound).

My comments with the HB-1: Balanced, good detail, vocals sound warm, sounds good. This was the first speaker played. I actually guessed that the HB-1 was the RC-10. I totally reversed the RC-10 and the HB1. Lol!

InterSpy24 was than blind-folded and the various speakers were swapped out. I will post his blind data that I recorded.

InterSpy24 and the RC-10: neutral, balanced, smooth, powerful low end, one possible weakness is that they sound a little "easy". He also said this is a speaker he like and would buy. This was the first speaker I played and he made that comment. I actually tried to trick him and put the RC-10 back in the mix as speaker #4 in the demo. I played the CB-20 before this, so a lot of his thoughts are in comparison. He said the RC-10 sounds more balanced, not as bright, cleaner, "it works", volume seems low, bass more clean/accurate, again he said he likes the speaker and would buy it. The RC-10 is the only speaker that he commented he would buy. He said that both times they were played.

Interspy24 and the CB-20: louder, more forward than last (Pioneer A. Jones), he likes it more than the last but not more so than the first speaker (the RC-10), not harsh, bass more accurate than last (Pioneer A. Jones), louder volume.

Interspy24 and the HSU HB1: sounds funny, bass was prominent, highs seem funny, sound is full, powerful, louder than previous (RC-10), bass seems boomy maybe even muddy (not clean), a lot of sound but not balanced.

It was very interesting seeing the results. I guess everyone has different tastes. Interspy24's thoughts on the RC-10 seemed spot on to many AVS members. I had different conclusions, and obviously different preferences with the sound I like, just like we all do. I prefer a brighter more forward speaker, vs a straight neutral speaker.

It is amazing how many variables come into play when we look at a speaker and listen. We may think about the cost, the look, the size, the material, and even think about what EVERYONE else has said about the speaker. I didn't recognize how much pre-conceived bias I had with speakers. Being blind-folded flipped the script.

We both agreed that the CB-20 would be the better speaker for HT. Interspy24 would easily choose the RC-10 as the one he would buy. I would probably buy the CB-20 for my taste and listening material (90% ht, 10% music). I felt a little odd that my opinions were different than many AVS members; however, I am OK with that and glad that I can be honest with myself.

Haha. I thought about you, alphaii, during the demo. When Interspy24 was blind-folded, I used the SPL meter and tried to keep the volume around 75dbs. I guess the best way is to first use white noise, spl match, than play the material. You must have a masters in research and marketing like Interspy24 .

Interspy24 tricked me with speaker #3 and #4. They BOTH were the same speaker (Pioneer by A. Jones). For demo #4 he increased the volume dial by 2.5 points (on the Denon dial). My opinions totally changed and I thought they were different speakers.

Deepstang on speaker #3: less detailed, small sound-stage, vocals not as full (previous demo was the RC-10).

Deepstang on speaker #4: vocals neutral, balanced, very neutral, not open sound stage. I guessed that these may be the RC-10s. LOL!!!!! $100 speakers cranked up vs $600 award winning Energy's!

I forgot to mention that we listened ONLY in pure direct mode, thus NO Audyssey, subs or any other type of calibration was applied.