Help Designing New Home A/V Distribution - Page 3

Originally Posted by mike1812

That's a separate topic - let's deal with your setup first. There are a number of threads on here about pre-wiring - if you put enough in up front to accommodate different solutions, then you are good. My biggest concern would be what if you home run the wire to one location, but the buyer wants to place the central location elsewhere. There's a lot of pros and cons to what you plan to do - I suggest a separate thread for that. And unlike what you did, in the condo you should ALWAYS run rg6 to room locations.



Not sure I understand the question? Will this work for the IR? What are you asking? The expander (1176) is used to add additional outputs to the 562 matrix. Your 562 matrix can take in 6 sources, and send out 6 signals via ethernet plus 1 local signal over component/analog/digital audio. The 1176 ADDS another 6 outputs via ethernet, meaning you can have 12 + 1 zones with the system you have purchased. The (2) 1109's offered to you were used to "inject" IR control signals into the 12 ethernet output signals (6 per 1109). Without the 1109's, you have no control built-in to the distribution matrix, you have to use another means of IR control. However, bear in mind that using an 1109 or its newer version 1109A MAY not be the best solution. We should at some point talk about control of everything and the best means to accomplish it within your budget.

Originally Posted by cshepard

The Audio Authority C-1071 you just mentioned is an awesome piece. Please understand what it does though--it converts IR to Bluetooth. It lets you use any universal remote control to operate your PS3 as opposed to having to use a PS3 controller or Sony's Bluetooth Blu-ray remote to operate the console. It has nothing to do with extending the video or audio.

Why wouldn't you want to connect your living room AVR through the AA video matrix?

Originally Posted by cshepard

Sorry, Rich; I knew you wanted to use HDMI in your living room but it slipped my mind. I understand your reasoning for wanting to go that route, but it may make your life easier just keeping everything component and feeding the living room via the matrix.

Still a possiblity. I can't imagine I couldn't do both... somehow.

You may have luck using your PS3 controllers in at least a few video zones, depending on how "central" the console will be. Remember, Bluetooth has a range of about 33 feet. I have seen PS3 controllers work fine at slightly beyond that range; I have also seen them have spotty performance at shorter distance.

Originally Posted by time2jet

There has to be a solution out there for that... It's so common... Can it be done with any of the other gaming systems... Wii, Xbox?

Thanks!

Have a great rest of your weekend!

Rich

Originally Posted by mike1812

So getting back to this, and I'm hoping Jeff is still around to weigh in on this. Rich, I really don't see what you get out of running HDMI back to the LR AVR, other than 1080p. You won't get any higher resolution audio, because your AVR isn't capable of decoding TrueHD or DTS-MA, and the normal DD/DTS that it WILL pass can run over the digital audio connection of the component over cat5 matrix. WHAT you haven't told us is whether ANY of your bd players will decode the signal and output via 5.1 or 7.1 connections to your AVR so that the avr doesn't have to do the decoding. As I think through this more, you are overly complicating the situation with trying to put in HDMI. Now if you plan to upgrade that AVR to handle the advanced audio codecs, then you would need the HDMI connection.

Originally Posted by mike1812

Yes, as Jeff and I said a page or so back, you would put the AVR in the rack with all of your other components. Connect each source's component out to the component matrix AND run HDMI from any sources you want to see in the LR into the AVR as well (assuming all sources support dual component/HDMI out - which you'll have to research that for each make/model). For the LR only, you would run your normal component over cat5 (for all sources NOT tied into the AVR by HDMI) and then run an HDMI over cat5 as well from the AVR out to the TV.

Now, control. . .you have many options. One would be to use the Audio Authority IR injectors to send IR from each room back up the cat5 to the rack (thus, a remote in each room would control the local tv as well as the rack components). Bear in mind the version you were offered is only DOWNSTREAM I believe, meaning it is intended to inject IR at the distribution matrix point to control a display at the receiver endpoint, not the other way around as you need. Potential gotcha here is I don't know limitations of this system - i.e., you will have 6 sources I believe, maybe it only supports the sources tied into the component matrix (meaning you'd still have to solve the problem of controlling the avr). Xantech also makes many IR relay devices, so that you can send IR along the cat5 back up to IR blasters in the rack.

Another option would be to buy several remotes that work with an RF base station. I believe Harmony makes a model (the 900) that works with a base station (though I don't know if it supports multiple remotes and I don't know how many devices the RF base supports), and URC also makes several remotes that work with base stations (so you could mix and match different remotes with same base station). [disclaimer: I use URC in my home and am very happy with the products, so I may be biased toward them]. This can be good if you don't have a lot of RF interference in your home. You install the base station in the rack, connect an antenna to it, and you connect IR emitters to each device in the rack, then program each remote to send the proper signals to the base station (while still controlling local devices through IR).

Here's where it gets tricky - the RF capable remotes (that can communicate with base stations) aren't cheap, so using one per room could get expensive. You may wish to reconsider and locate one per "area" or per person, and program it so that you first select "room" then you have proper local control (tv) and rack device control.

Again, there are so many ways to tackle the control issue that it's really a matter of preference. IR will always be the least reliable (but that doesn't imply UNreliable - only that it's not bulletproof). IR/RF is a better combination, but still has weaknesses. Then you get into RS232 and IP control and those can be expensive solutions. There are reasons why I might recommend an IR/RF solution, the biggest being that it's usually more solid in making sure the device receives the signal. That way, if you pressed power on for example from the LR and didn't get a signal, then what is the problem - is it the AVR? Is it the source (blu ray player)? What didn't turn on? IR/RF won't CURE that problem, but it will reduce the likelihood of a signal issue more than simply relaying an IR signal.

Originally Posted by jautor

Hey, I'm off at CEDIA this week... If you've got a zone available (at least in the short term), just use the component distribution (and therefore the IR support) for the Living Room for now. If and when you update the AVR, you can move that zone to a separate HDMI link...

Jeff

Originally Posted by time2jet

I'm headed the URC direction. I just am not really that sure about how this all works. I assume that there is some sort of "base" that all of the equipment in the AV equip room plugs into... ir port in on the unit... to some sort injector? that would run out via cat5e to each set location... finishing with a ir receiver end that would capture the signal and send it through the base to the particular piece of equip. I also assume that the TV is controlled local (obvious). I'm really confusing at times, aren't I? I'm really trying hard to get all of this. I mean, it's going to be in motion over the next three weeks, so I better be understanding it "better".

I've got distribution down, other than I have to buy the balun for the HDMI over cat5e for the living room (is balun proper).

Man, I am so sorry Mike. I'm in panic mode. I'm working 14 hour days and driving an hour each way... and trying to get a house built. It's brutal.

PS: I'm also trying to be a husband and Dad... juggling a lot lately

Originally Posted by mike1812

Let me see if I can help with some of your latest questions:

(1) I don't know - Cat6 is better? Might make it slightly more future-proof. Really a matter of choice.

Thanks.

(2) You might take a look at the Omni RSF racks (http://www.omnimountpro.com/Products...ck_Enclosures/). What I like about these is (1) they come pre-assembled, (2) they CAN be cheaper than a comparable rack after you add up all the accessories, etc. And search around the internet - there are plenty of sources of these with good discounts.

These are perfect and I found one at a good price.

(3) I'll come back to control at the end.

(4) Why are you not running component to the LR? Aside from everything else, IF you plan to use the Audio Authority IR system (the 1109), how exactly do you plan to control the system from the LR without a wall plate with an IR eye plugged into it? Assuming you figure that out, what if the one component you choose NOT to connect to the AVR and pass over HDMI is what you want to watch there. You already have the cat5, it's nothing to make the extra connection, other than the cost of the wallplate and connection cables.

I am running component... in addition to HDMI... to the LR.

(5) Yes, you'll want baluns. Frankly, I haven't researched them, but you SHOULD to make sure you are getting a reliable pair - the last thing you want is to buy a cheapo (and I don't mean inexpensive, I mean cheaply made) set and have HDCP handshake issues with the tv. Search in this forum for HDMI baluns and you SHOULD find a number of threads to help you. I know you've said you've been working 14 hour days, but you've got to make time to do some research on these things.

(6) Yes, you forgot power protection. With all those components centralized, you want some sort of surge protection (possibly even battery backup) in your rack. I have units from APC, Furman, and SurgeX in my racks, each do differing things, but all are good for what they do.

Not in your bullets, but no it doesn't matter what your tv resolution rates (ie that one tv is 720p) are since you are doing component distribution. That only matters with HDMI (and is now solvable, and becoming less an issue, though it costs money). I have a mix of 720p, 768p, and 1080p being fed by my Aviatrix and it works just fine.

Now, on to control. Here's where it gets fun. Let me first clarify my statement. Indeed the 1109 that you have/can buy is one way - AT A TIME. You have to configure it as Signals UP or DOWN the stream. Can't have both. The 1109A WILL do both at the same time. Sorry if I confused you.

Now, here's where you will need to talk to Audio Authority and get some clarity (as well as reading pages 14-18 of the Aviatrix 562 manual). The 1109 is meant to work WITH the Aviatrix, and the Aviatrix is intended to be used with 6 sources. So that means that the Aviatrix has 6 unique source outputs - ok, you've got 3 Tivo's and 3 Blu Rays. That's 6, so far so good. WAIT, how do you control the AVR that's in the rack. Because you have 7 devices to control, not 6. So, you're probably reading the manual and see that the Aviatrix has a "send all from all zones" output. Well, that won't work because you have 3 sources with the same IR code (3 Tivo's) and you would wind up changing all 3 whenever you wanted to change 1.

I'm hanging one of the blue rays off of the AVR as well as one of the Tivo's... That free's a bit of Matrix room.

So how do you make this work with the 1109? Frankly, I don't know how. Yes, there are plenty of wiring options to hook it up for more than 6, but the limiting factor (I think) is that for each device you want to control, you have to "teach" the Aviatrix the IR codes for each device. Not a problem, but there's only 6 of those devices for which you can do that in the Aviatrix configuration software. You NEED to call Audio Authority and ask them whether it is possible to setup the Aviatrix to send IR commands out to 7 devices.

So, if they say yes, you can, find out how. And what you'll need at each location (each wallplate) is an IR "eye" that is plugged into the 9878 wall jack (or another compatible AA wallplate) to receive the IR signal from the universal remote. This travels over the cat5 back to the 1109 that you wire into the system. And I'm still trying to figure out how you wire it in reverse - again, call Audio Authority - they have been very nice to me as a consumer in the past, because they know not all of their systems are installed by pros.

With respect to all of this, you really need to come up with your budget for each part - AV Distribution, Rack and Power, and Control. I suspect you will be in sticker shock when you see rack and power costs, and control can quickly get there as well. You might want to talk to a local dealer to first ask about programming a URC remote (well, 6 of them). I'm going to assume that will be more than you want to spend, so then ask if they would provide you with the programming software to set them up yourself. I will say this, because all 6 will be controlling the same components (with the LR having the added AVR to control), it's really easy to do the first, then clone the rest with minor modifications. In fact, how I would setup would be so that if any ever got put in the wrong rooms, it wouldn't matter, they'd still work. Depends on which remote you got though. But if you can get the AA 1109 to work with all 7 devices, then you can buy whatever cheap remote you want for each room, as long as it can learn all your device codes.

Ok, I'm out of touch for the next few days. I am traveling to conduct a field audit and won't have a lot of time (if any) to spend on the forums. Good luck, I'll check in when I can and see how things are going. I'll be curious to know what AA tells you about the source outputs and 1109 configuration.

Originally Posted by mike1812

Haven't left town yet (fly out tomorrow) so just checked in to see what was going on.

Rich, I'm sorry to hear that you've panicked. This is a lot to take in, and frankly, you are probably doing the right thing by slowing down to figure this all out. It was pretty apparent from your posts that this was getting overwhelming with your work hours and everything else, so it's understandable to take a breather.

One quick comment - the 1109A's vs. the 1109's don't really make a difference in the whole scheme. Even with you hanging one of the blu rays and one of the Tivo's off the AVR, there are still 7 devices in the rack room that need to be controlled remotely (not including the Aviatrix, so that makes 8), and you only have 6 connections from the Aviatrix with either model of the 1109. When you have time, please make that call to AA to ask them about whether it is possible to control more than 6 sources from a single Aviatrix. Even if you just wanted to use it in the meantime to control the avr, tivo and blu ray for the living room, you'd still need to connect the Aviatrix up and connect to the LR jack with cat5, then get an IR eye in the living room connected to the AA wall plate, and run IR from the Aviatrix to those devices. That would get you going for now in terms of control, but you'd still run out of control outputs at some point when you get the whole system up and running.

Now, having said all that, your last post has a comment that really makes me sit back and say: you should consider hiring a pro. I like to tinker, I love to DIY, and it can save you money. But in your case, I think this is really stressing you out, and you should seriously consider hiring someone to complete the project for you. I just think that when a project becomes overwhelming it's time to rethink why you wanted to do it yourself.

Good luck, I'll keep checking this thread to see where you are with all this.

Originally Posted by mike1812

Yep, much simpler now for just your living room setup. Just get your HDMI baluns and hook everything up. Maybe you can try out a URC remote and base/blaster (or a Harmony) to see how you fare with the programming/setup. There's always resale if you don't like it.

Good luck (and I'm sorry to hear about your friend and his kids - that's very sad, but they're lucky to have your family).

Originally Posted by mike1812

Yep, much simpler now for just your living room setup. Just get your HDMI baluns and hook everything up. Maybe you can try out a URC remote and base/blaster (or a Harmony) to see how you fare with the programming/setup. There's always resale if you don't like it.

Good luck (and I'm sorry to hear about your friend and his kids - that's very sad, but they're lucky to have your family).