New Emo Subs are here !

Here are the links: X-Ref 10 (300W) | X-Ref 12 (600W)

I like that the DSP display and controller are on top. Much more accessible than when they're stuck in back (as is the case w/ the SVS subs).

How does the 12" compare to the ultra 12" sub?

I see the amp is 600w and opposed to 300w and the frequency low is 20Hz instead of 22Hz. Anything else?

DSP
Two-band parametric EQ

Same driver, previous version was amp limited. So we have a new enclosure, DSP and controller, and more juice squeezing more performance from the 12".

Great upgrade in this line; they've found their niche and are developing it well.

Unfortunately, I can only see this sitting in my bedroom, maybe a casual living room setup. I wonder if they have 15" or 18" units planned for more serious usage.

Will the new 12" run with the Sunfire Signature EQ?

I'm eyeing two 12" ultra's for $399/each. It seems like a good bang for the buck. I won't get a new sub for 6 months or so. I hope the price remains $399 til then.

These sound really promising and could offer a lot of value. Hope to see some feedback soon from early adopters...

I agree, In my living room, it takes two stacked SVS SB12nsd subs to (barely) compete with my single PB12plus. However a small sealed sub like the Emo will do well in a modest sized room. My Emo Ultra 10 absolutely slams in my 10 X 12 bedroom for example but does nothing in an open living area.

Looks like the new 12" is $200 more at regular price than old one. Looking at their specs get double the power, 5db more output, weighs 6 lbs more, 2hz deeper extension, dsp with soft limiting circuitry and two bands eq. Looks like some very nice upgrades. It is entering into some competition at regular price of $699 though.

Better jump on that while you can KidHorn as I am unsure if they are going to continue to make the Ultra Sub 12 or if they are selling it off to replace with the new one.

Edit: Also be interesting to see if they offer amp seperately as an upgrade for current Sub 12 owners if utilizes same driver?

118db output? What, in a room the size of a shoebox?

I doubt it as there seems to be a seperate cutout for the DSP controls

Also I am too curious about the 118db output. I know that my Emo Ultra 10 has plenty of overall output in my bedroom but thats with a good bit of room gain.

To be fair, they aren't claiming 118dB of output at 20Hz. Given the results of Audioholics bench test on the Ultra 12 and how it correlated with the claimed in room SPL, I'd tend to give Emotiva the benefit of the doubt that this new sub could reach 118db between 50-100Hz.

Gotcha

I have no doubt that I will have plenty of output above 30hz at least

How do you know it is the same driver?

I hope you're wrong. Even so, there will be other deals in 6 months.

I need subs for a room addition that hasn't even started yet. I may not be able to build it. I need special approval from the county and I won't know until around Halloween at the earliest, so I kind of have no choice but to wait

In the pictures it looks close, but not quite the same... so I'll bump this and 2nd the request of how you know that it is the same driver.

Thanks

Called Emotiva...they confirmed this to me on the phone. Also, different enclosure, but not really any bigger so really were relying on the amp to push the driver to do things it couldn't do before. I'm sure it will be much better, but what scares me is what Emo claims on their Ultra 12, those figures were more more or less a joke according to measurements taken by people on this forum.

Good to know. The surround looked a little bit different to me.

Looking forward to hearing some reviews. I wonder why they don't include RCA high pass outs though?

So if the driver is identical (except for the mounting flange perhaps), and the cabinet is pretty much the same, then it seems like all the upgrades are in the electronics? That makes it hard to justify the 25% price increase on the 10", and the whopping 40% jump on the 12"!

Just for my own edification... how bad were the numbers? I'm not familiar with the situation.


According to what I've seen Emotiva list as their product line the Ultra Series is the entry level, the X-Ref is the middle and the Reference is top of the line. The Ultra subs appear to be gone -- well, the 10" is, and I would imagine the 12" is not long for this world -- which means they have no "low end" for the subs now. By extension wouldn't that then make the X-Ref the new low end? And if the only real difference between the new and old subs is electronics I'm not sure that should warrant an entirely new product line. To me, that seems merely to be an evolutionary upgrade to the Ultra Series.

I've been looking for a relatively small, sealed sub for a few months now. I had settled on a few possibilities, but all things considered the Ultra 10 was probably at the top of that list. I was waiting for the "temporary" backorder to be over, but it seemed like it was taking an awfully long time. So I contacted Emotiva, only to find out that temporary, in this case, was like certain forms of insanity; it was permanent. The Ultra 12 is a slight bit large for what I need, so I started looking at my other alternatives.

For some reason though, I never stopped thinking about the Emotiva. When I saw they released new subs -- in the product line 'above' the Ultra -- I was elated. Now, looking closer, I'm not so sure. Same driver; virtually same cabinet; same quoted frequency response (25Hz-200Hz, still with no published indication of what the -3dB point); phase no longer variable; no knobs or dials for adjustments!?

That last point is perhaps the worst for me (that, plus the unrealistic price increase). I work with computers for a living, so electronics is something I'm very familiar with. Which is partially why I like knobs and dials better. Jokes aside, I would much rather have physical dials for the usual suspects: gain, phase, crossover. That's so much easier. I don't know how intuitive the new interface will be, but I surely don't want to wade through a multitude of menus just to change something elementary like the gain. If convenience was their goal then perhaps including a remote control would have been wise, or place knobs on the cabinet side, but going all digital does seem a bit extreme (like a solution in search of a problem).

And what about patches and updates? You can be certain they will find a few bugs, or want to add an enhancement somewhere down the road, yet I don't see a USB port. Wonder how they'll manage that.

The total weight is about 10% heavier, which for a subwoofer is generally a good thing. And the RMS watts are 50% greater, which is a very good thing. I'm sure the DSP and EQ's will make it far more complex to setup properly -- meaning there are even more variables to contend with now -- but I imagine they'll go a long way towards dialing in the sub with greater detail then before. Guess that one is a double-edged sword.


I'm anxiously looking forward to some of the reviews though. In spite of what it might seem (my obvious reservations) I definitely have Emotiva on my short list. They seem to be one of the better ID companies, which is very appealing to me.

Jim, I have heard the emo sub 12 falls off pretty fast at about 30-32 hz. So, although they are good subs, they are likely better for music. I can't udersrand how it's so light though (only 44 lbs). Hope that helps (that's why I didn't choose them, personally; no music whatsoever here).

Good to know. I guess the 10" drops off somewhere in the mid 30's then. My usage will be mostly HT, with very little music.

If you're in a room with descent room gain (small) the Emo Ref X may be enough for your needs. I have an older Emo Ultra 10 and in my smaller bed room it has good extension into the upper 20's. The 12" would do even better in my room. Jim, the 12" my be your best bet in your price range

The Emotiva power amps may be OK (haven't really researched it) but the hype to performance ratio of the processor and the subs is way out of whack.

Obviously the cabinet size is a factor here. If you wanted big sound for $700 then the A5-350 would fit the bill. 18hz 15 inch super loud. Im not saying I would ever buy the Emo... but it seems to hit the appropriate price point for what it is... size/power.

My room is 13x17x8, so it's pretty small. That's why I was thinking along the lines of the 10"; I feared sitting 8-9 feet away from a 12" sub, with it pointing directly at me, might be overkill.

Oddly enough though, the Ultra 12" seems more compelling at this point. All those electronics in the X-Ref are not sitting too well with me. I know Emotiva sells a lot of amps, so I imagine these were done properly, but the lack of physical controls is something I don't seem able to come to terms with.

There is no such thing as overkill with subs. You can simply turn down the gain. With the 12" you will have more headroom and better deep bass extension over the 10" in your size room. Go for the Ultra 12 while they are still available.

I'm not so sure about that. There are some people on this forum who I think have gone to the extreme (I've seen some of the pictures, so I know). I honestly think you can over do it.



Yea, that same thought has occurred to me. They sold out of the Ultra 10 when I was looking at those, so I do have concerns they might do something similar with the Ultra 12 as well. Trouble is, I'm not sure I want that or the new X-Ref 10 (the X-Ref 12 is beyond my budget).

I was kinda hoping to read someones review -- especially about the new interface -- before I made up my mind. But as you point out, my mind could end up being made for me.

Sorry, to correct you, but Dan Laufman of Emotiva just stated in a post on the Emo site, that the driver for the X-Ref 12 DSP is not identical to the one used in the Ultra series.
It's a completely new one.

Anxious for these to come out. I'm interested in the x-ref 10. Hope some get there hands on them soon and post some observations.