DIY Synergy horn - Page 9

60hz?

How much room do you have?

I've been designing horns since 1994. Bring it on buddy!

Mark

I was at my mate's place over the w/e, the one who is helping me with the woodwork for mine and the drawing and sketches to detail what I wanted to achieve in mine came out similar in many ways to yours. I've emailled him a link so that I can use your pics to clarify. My ply is veneered so I need his skills to make it all go together smooth.

As for this comment "It will be difficult to match the clarity of the horn loaded system to that of a vented or sealed box. Very different type of sound timbre." my response, having built full range (but not using FR drivers) FLH systems is that is BS. I've also heard William's Unity system and it was definitely not correct even up to TJ levels. To build a FLH to 50Hz with worthwhile performance, it's going to be large, taking up much more space than you obviously have.

You can't beat the laws of physics.


No that sentence was a continuation from the previous point where William's system suffered no audible discontinuity because of having DR's supplementing the Unity.

I'd love to try a DIY Unity that can hit 300. I'm table flat from 30-300 already, need better tops.

Hey Paul,

Fantastic work! Thanks for sharing! I will without a doubt be building some variation of this synergy horn for my HT. I'm interested in your 45x90 horn, because I assume that it reduces the vertical response, and thus ceiling/floor bounce. Do you have vertical measurement data for your 45x90? Also, what do you think about a horn that is even narrower vertically? I'm not sure how one uses hornresp to model horns that are wider than they are tall. Anybody?

Thanks,
John

'Sound is round' and what HR predicts. The higher the aspect ratio, the higher its distortion ['color'] and why some pros use multiple drivers in line array/ribbon like aspect ratios.

The late Altec Vari Intense single driver horns were just that:
http://www.lansingheritage.org/image...ro/1993-24.JPG
http://www.lansingheritage.org/image...ro/1993-25.JPG

GM

Thanks very much, guys. Paul, you and I are on the same page- I had already planned to put the left/right channels in the corners, a la Klipsch. I'll have to build some prototypes, and I'll start w/ a 60/40.

Much appreciated,
John

Hi Paul, all
Something happened which is kind of humorous (as in I didn't get the citation). Since someone that attended took a video, I thought being a large 4 way synergy horn, it might be funny to post it here.
We used generation loss recordings in the beginning to get a handle on where the changes were taking us, I think it comes out here in this fellows video too.

The Reps for the area where the shop is outside Atlanta had an open house last week for us and Digital projection. There were speakers inside but they did a couple demos' outside in a large space and that was our first informal public demonstration of a new Synergy Horn a J3.

This is a perfect bedroom or desktop speaker, one 48 inch tall horn under 400lb, 6X horn loaded 15's, 8X 6 inch sealed back horn drivers, four BMS coax compression drivers. Time coherent, no pattern flip, measures like one broad band driver.

One of the fellows the Rep's invited apparently took a video of the system up close which sort of captures the directivity and the fidelity fairly well. About 2 min into it, whoever it is panned out to the field where the people (including me) were.
Everyone had walked around listening between 100 yards and out to 300 yards because it sounded essentially the same everywhere, just a little quieter.
The reason, unlike arrays of sources, the spectral balance doesn't change with distance or angle within the pattern, wind has little effect, only hf absorption and inverse square are the enemy.
Here, having one single lobe (with a very high degree of forward directivity), you aim that at the back row and the underside of the CD lobe contours the loudness. That is the same as toeing in, putting the loudest part of the lobe at the farthest seat.
Anyway, this came out nice, use headphones.

Video #`1 somebody named Wayne's video;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MOG_sPejGA

As a result of the effect, a caravan of people took off in cars to hear from farther away. Mike shot the second video from the sun roof of his truck from about 1500 feet but I would have guessed farther.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=2587095730763

A decent breeze was blowing too.
What outdoor sound event would be complete without some angry cops too haha.
Next time maybe sound effects would be in order, I hid speakers in my back yard once in the 80's and played frogs and airplanes as loud as I could (next to a swampy area). Well I noticed it anyway haha.
Best Regards
Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays.
Tom Danley
http://www.facebook.com/DanleySoundLabs?ref=ts
http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/

Props' Tom,

The YouTube video shows the silly amount of pattern control underneath... That's crazy.

The amazing part isn't so much the 1500' listening distance on it's own, but the fact that it obviously sounded good at 30' and 1500' at the same time... Now that's some acoustic HP.

How long before you get rid of the crane and just build a 2-4 pc stackable support that doubles at copying the behavior to ~30Hz?

Merry Christmas.

Great to see the J3 in action! Finally you are building a home hifi speaker At only 48" tall I will take two

Have a great Xmas & New Years!

This is a perfect bedroom or desktop speaker

LOL....would be nice.

Hey Tom,

Once again, thanks for helping all us lowly DIY'ers out with your time and insight.

Merry Christmas,
John

HI Mark, all
Yeah, the pattern control is pretty amazing when the horn mouth gets to be four or five feet tall and it acts like it has one driver over a the entire band.

I guess the breakthrough in these compared to the other smaller Synergy horns is finding a way to combine more than one compression driver into the horn system, the mids and lows are easy but when the wavelength gets to be smaller than the driver, well, another strategy is needed.

The solution for that, sort of a lens / combiner on the JH-90 / J1 took about four months to figure out, the rest of that was easy except for the low end, that was another issue as the goal was to not need a sub.
With an lf output of about 3kw acoustic, the first version could literally shake itself apart.

The switch to one inch Birch and a boat load of bracing raised the weight to a level I wasn't happy with but it is those first J1 stadium installations last year that lead to a bunch more this year.

It has been cool seeing these big installations but a number of times I had wished you and Jeff were along to hear them as in Mark should hear this. I was sitting at the farthest seats at BYU listening to the system playing CD's and the only thing going through my head was that they could play action movies here for a large crowd. That system sounded great at 102dBA slow at 750 feet (they had 4 J1's and 6 TH812's under restraint due to the seats directly under them..

Anyway, the J2 which I am still fiddling with has 42 drivers and is the same size but much more powerful than the J1 except for the low end and the J3, the box in the demo is a little stronger than the J1 except for the extended low cutoff, has 22 drivers, is smaller and is array able.
The neat part is you can sit a few feet away in front of any of these as a stereo and they sound and image great too, no minimum distance etc because there is in effect only one acoustic source.

The fun part is that these sound so much different and work so much better than the normal stuff that when you get a stadium owner or athletic director that is unhappy enough with the sound to get involved, they couldn't care less how new the system is, what speaker company the installer is in bed with or what company the solution comes from as long as it really works.

Check out the facebook page at some of the install's this summer (our web page is way behind, the new one isn't done yet).

http://www.facebook.com/DanleySoundLabs?ref=ts


In the demo at Penn state below, the large California line arrays (two years old) sound so bad that a demo of three arrayed sources won the job to design a new system (a J2 forward, J1 right and left). In the video, they are the little black glob under the scoreboard.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=...type=2&theater

http://www.fohonline.com/index.php?o...=5658&Itemid=1

Anyway, this is getting fun now, eventually someone will figure out you can show movies to a huge group of people now haha.
Hey, say Hi to Jeff too.
Merry Christmas all
Tom

Yeah, a Jericho alarm clock, I could imagine a whole range of practical jokes, such as using it to wake your neighbors with sounds of a helicopter or plane crash, maybe the attack of the totally enormous frogs? It would be easy to hide one or several of something with this much throw for humor purposes.

Very cool stuff Tom. Glad to see that these big installs are popping up for your team. Merry Xmas.

How about a Danley gathering / demo in GA similar to what Klipsch does sometime? I bet there would be a lot of interest.

Hi Tom,


!!!

That's 4 HP, enough to power various sorts of demolition devices.

If a bird accidentally flies in front of the mouth, will its feathers be torn off? Would a person's eardrums be shredded?

Sounds like a good plan, Paul. I've done homemade conical horns w/roundover at 80 degree horizontal coverage. My room requires seating quite close to the front speaker pair, and relatively wide spacing between the speakers. With the 80 degree coverage, I wasn't able to get the time/intensity trading (using speaker toe-in) to work as well as with 90 degree waveguides such as the QSC. I'm now using the 90 degree SEOS15, which do very well, I get a very good center image even sitting directly in front of either speaker. So for my Synergy attempt, I'll still probably go for 90 degree horizontal, but 60 degree vertical.

Anymore progress on this SH?

I am still up at arms whether to try and do one of these with lots of questions asked to you or to do something like the DR200 which has plans already. But I really like the idea of making something a bit more DIY. I am wanting to still use these for outdoors so the SH seems like it would be better but not sure if I can build it.

Are you doing a 80x60 with the celestion speakers?

I was thinking of using the Erich's CD's because I wanted to order them anyways. Still would have to find a midrange but thats why I am following this thread.

Paul are your drivers always going to be exposed?

Wondering if I would need to build a box around mine to keep elements from getting on them in case of weather. PLUS I wondered how I would put something like the S3 or other on a stand. I figured the box would not effect the sound due to the drivers being closed back. Thoughts