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Advanced MPC-HC Setup Guide - Page 57

post #1681 of 2899
I hope that someone could save my day because i'm gonna lose my mind with mpc-hc & MadVR. I have read all tutorials about mpchc+madVR and install/unistall everything more than 5 times but still same issue after 20 hours of fighting.


I've HTPC with AMD A-6 5400k CPU but all 1080p/720p movies are laggy as hell. Here is some screenshot from 1080p movie so you can see that frames start missing immediately. After 2 minutes there will be more than 1k missing frames. CPU is jumping up and down. normally between 20-70%.

My setup:
  • Windows 7 x64
  • AMD A6-5400k
  • 4Gb ddr3
  • latest AMD drivers
  • MPC-HC lite x86(normal MPC-HC tested too)
  • madVR v0.85.8 x86
  • LAV Filters 0.55.2 x86

All fliters in MPC-HC looks normal and DXVA2 is active. I've been using DXVA2 native because with DXVA2 copy-back there is only green picture and no video at all. Changing scaling algorithms in madVR doesn't make difference.

Can some one pls tell me what im doing wrong ?!!?

Edit: I tried with my main PC (1055t, radeon 7950) with same softwares and everything works fine eek.gif
Edited by ralphpls - 2/9/13 at 5:24am
post #1682 of 2899
In madVR settings, make sure to check:

- enable automatic fullscreen exclusive mode (and launch the player in fullscreen mode, of course)
- use a seperate device for presentation (Vista and newer) (this will shorten rendering time a lot)

Recommended scaling algorithms are

- chroma upscaling: Bicubic75+AR
- image upscaling: Lanczos3+AR
(- image downscaling: whatever; you won't downscale anything in a full HD display.)

A6-5400K can handle Jinc3+AR image upscaling for films (24p), but not for videos (50/60i/p). Also make sure all video post-processors in Vision Engine Control Center (> Video > Color & Quality) are disabled except for automatic deinterlacing and pulldown detection (otherwise rendering time could be a lot longer with undesirable effects).
Edited by renethx - 2/9/13 at 5:52am
post #1683 of 2899
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

In madVR settings, make sure to check:

- enable automatic fullscreen exclusive mode (and launch the player in fullscreen mode, of course)
- use a seperate device for presentation (Vista and newer) (this will shorten rendering time a lot)

Recommended scaling algorithms are

- chroma upscaling: Bicubic75+AR
- image upscaling: Lanczos3+AR
(- image downscaling: whatever; you won't downscale anything in a full HD display.)

A6-5400K can handle Jinc3+AR image upscaling for films (24p), but not for videos (50/60i/p). Also make sure all video post-processors in Vision Engine Control Center (> Video > Color & Quality) are disabled except for automatic deinterlacing and pulldown detection (otherwise rendering time could be a lot longer with undesirable effects).

I made these changes but no help :'( still plenty of missing frames and after 5 seconds video goes crazy, it will be like strobe light flashing 2 pictures back and forth
post #1684 of 2899
From your screenshot, only render queue is too low (0-8/8). Try Bilinear / Bilinear chroma/image upscaling.
post #1685 of 2899
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

From your screenshot, only render queue is too low (0-8/8). Try Bilinear / Bilinear chroma/image upscaling.

Here are couple new screenshots after Bilinear changes

1080p still laggy
720p now running smoothly

Why 1080p films wont play in fullscreen ? Picture starts flashing right away and wont go further. This issue occurs only in fullscreen (window-mode is still laggy). If i change madVR -> EVR everything works fine and without missing frames

Is 5400k this bad ?
Edited by ralphpls - 2/9/13 at 7:18am
post #1686 of 2899
Double post
post #1687 of 2899
Maybe a player problem. I would try the latest build (1.6.6.6735.x86). (And uninstall / reinstall LAV Filters, reset madVR [restore default settings.bat] / reconfigure it.)
Edited by renethx - 2/9/13 at 7:45am
post #1688 of 2899
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Maybe a player problem. I would try the latest build (1.6.6.6735.x86). (And uninstall / reinstall LAV Filters, reset madVR [restore default settings.bat] / reconfigure it.)

Maybe that give some hope but 1080p still laggin.

- use a seperate device for presentation (Vista and newer) (this will shorten rendering time a lot) -> this will make 1080p flashing at fullscreen mode

All decoding options from MadVR are disabled, is this right ?

Sometimes i will have these error messeges from MadVR

-resetting Direct3D device failed (8876086c)
-creating dxva decoding surface failed

These appears when i change full screen to window-mode
Edited by ralphpls - 2/9/13 at 8:22am
post #1689 of 2899
Hello. I'm trying to get deinterlacing of Full HD home videos (1080i) using Intel GPU (i3-3220, HD 2500).
I have selected Quicksync as decoder in LAV and DXVA as Image upscaling in madVR. Picture quality is very good for 720p24 and 1080p24 movies with these settings.
If activate the deinterlacing option in madVR I get a bunch of dropped frames. If I activate only software deinterlacing in LAV, same thing.

Can somebody please tell me how to get deinterlacing working (without dropped frames) with Intel HD graphics?

Thanks
post #1690 of 2899
What's your chroma upscaling algorithm? If the image is not scaled (e.g. playing back a full HD content in a full HD display), madVR's chroma upsampling is used instead of the driver's and if it is too high (like Jinc3+AR), stuttering may occur. Bicubic 50 without anti-ringing filter is optimal for Intel HD Graphics 2500. (Actually Intel driver's chroma upsampling is close to Bicubic 50 without AR.)

Memory speed is critical. DDR3-1333 is not good. DDR3-1600 is minimum, DDR3-1866 / DDR3-2133 is better (Z77 chipset is required for DDR3-1866/2133).

Here is the average rendering time at 1080i60 playback with Intel HD Graphics 2500:

DDR3-1333: 14.0 ms with lots of dropped frame
DDR3-1600: 12.3 ms with zero dropped frame
Edited by renethx - 2/9/13 at 11:20pm
post #1691 of 2899
Thanks renethx, Bicubic 50 without AR for Chroma upsampling did the trick. I realize now that the Anti Ringing option was the problem, it seems to consume a lot of resources.
So if DXVA wouldn't be gray out as Chroma upsampling, it would be close to what I get with bicubic 50 without AR, interesting.

What about using software deinterlace in LAV?, isn't the CPU good enough to do it? Which would be better of the 2 options?

I think I may have decided to buy a Radeon video card. Is the HD 6570 enough for 1080i60, 720p24, 1080p24 and 1080p60 sources, using much better chroma and image upscaling options?
I may get a low profile HD 7750, but if the HD 6570 improve PQ enough, I'd save some coins.

Regards.
post #1692 of 2899
renethx, I have some ddr3 memory that is 1333. I saw your post above, when I buy memory, should I buy 6gb or 4 if I have a i3-3220?
post #1693 of 2899
Quote:
Originally Posted by juaniquillo View Post

What about using software deinterlace in LAV?, isn't the CPU good enough to do it? Which would be better of the 2 options?

I think I may have decided to buy a Radeon video card. Is the HD 6570 enough for 1080i60, 720p24, 1080p24 and 1080p60 sources, using much better chroma and image upscaling options?
I may get a low profile HD 7750, but if the HD 6570 improve PQ enough, I'd save some coins.

Generally deinterlacing by the driver's algorithm / GPU is better than YADIF / CPU in quality. The latter does not detect pulldown.

This chart should be helpful.



where

Level 3: BC75+AR / LZ3+AR / C-R+AR+LL (almost identical with Intel DXVA2 except that chroma is upscaled with anti-ringing filter)
Level 4: BC75+AR / Jinc3+AR / C-R+AR+LL
Level 5: Jinc3+AR / Jinc3+AR / C-R+AR+LL (currently the best scaling algorithms)

SD = 720 x 480
HD = 1280 x 720
3/4 FHD = 1440 x 1080 (three quarters of Full HD)
FHD = 1920 x 1080 (Full HD)
4K UHD = 3840 x 2160 or higher (4K Ultra HD)

i = interlaced
p = progressive

All films are progressive @24fps, while a video is either interlaced @30fps (@60fps after deinterlacing) or progressive @60fps, all up to 1/(1.001) factor of course. Rendering time should be well less than

- 41.7 ms = 1 / (23.976fps) for films
- 16.7 ms = 1 / (59.94fps) for videos

So videos are 2.5 times harder than films to play back without dropped frames. All test clips used can be downloaded from:

Video Clips 2 min (F1-F4 are films, V1-V6 are videos.)

Now the answer to your question: Your main sources are HD film, FHD film and FHD i/p video. HD 6570 struggles with FHD i/p video at the highest level settings. HD 7750 or higher should be good.
Edited by renethx - 2/10/13 at 1:57pm
post #1694 of 2899
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyB View Post

renethx, I have some ddr3 memory that is 1333. I saw your post above, when I buy memory, should I buy 6gb or 4 if I have a i3-3220?
DDR3-1600 2GB x 2 (or more) is enough. Don't mix with 1333. DDR3-1333 can't handle FHD iV even with BC50 without AR.
post #1695 of 2899
Thanks. By the way.. Sent you a PM last night.
post #1696 of 2899
Renethx, would an Core 2 duo E3400 and DDR2-333 or 400 meet you level 4 quality requirements with an HD7770?

I know I can already get better than Level 3 (i.e Jinc3+AR / LZ3+AR / C-R+AR+LL) to work without dropped frame on DVDs (SD iV) with this set up and a Nvidia GT440 (1GB GDDR5) on a full HD display.
post #1697 of 2899
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eiffel View Post

Renethx, would an Core 2 duo E3400 and DDR2-333 or 400 meet you level 4 quality requirements with an HD7770?

Perhaps no problem, in particular if you select DXVA2 (native) in LAV Video Decoder, because once the compressed video stream comes in the graphics card / video RAM, it never goes outside the graphics card so that CPU plays very little role.
post #1698 of 2899
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Generally deinterlacing by the driver's algorithm / GPU is better than YADIF / CPU in quality. The latter does not detect pulldown.

This chart should be helpful.

So videos are 2.5 times harder than films to play without dropped frames. Your main sources are HD F, FHD F, FHD iV and FHD pV. HD 6570 struggles with FHD i/pV at the highest level settings. HD 7750 or higher should be good.

Thanks renethx for all the valuable support to the community. Those tables are awesome.

Understanding that everyone eyes and setup are different, In your opinion, is there a big improvement in picture quality going from Level 4 to Level 5?

Regards.
post #1699 of 2899
The difference between BC75+AR and Jinc3+AR chroma upscaling is very subtle. *Symbolically* I would say people wouldn't notice the difference in 90% of SDs and 99% of FHDs.
post #1700 of 2899
Nev mentioned that level 5 is probably not necessary under almost all circumstances but rene tests and reports anyhow. It is good to have data outside the norm so you can better describe the norm.
post #1701 of 2899
Already changed smile.gif



BTW the scaling algorithms by each card vendor's driver:



It is a bit difficult to identify them precisely.

~ = almost
AR = anti-ringing
ES = edge sharpening
S = sharpening
Edited by renethx - 2/10/13 at 12:30pm
post #1702 of 2899
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

DDR3-1600 2GB x 2 (or more) is enough. Don't mix with 1333. DDR3-1333 can't handle FHD iV even with BC50 without AR.
I can get 8gb of 1600 for 30 bucks. G.skill ripjaws ram too.

I think he said it's single stick, should I go with dual channel?
post #1703 of 2899
What all should I use if I have a super powerful PC, and want to get the best looking 10 bit stream to a 10 bit monitor?
post #1704 of 2899
I'm guessing that chart says it all. Look at level 5
post #1705 of 2899
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyB View Post

I'm guessing that chart says it all. Look at level 5
Chart?
post #1706 of 2899
A few posts up
post #1707 of 2899
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyB View Post


I can get 8gb of 1600 for 30 bucks. G.skill ripjaws ram too.

I think he said it's single stick, should I go with dual channel?

Always go with dual channel (performance of madVR will be degraded with single channel). Don't mix 1333 and 1600, otherwise 1600 runs only at 1333.
post #1708 of 2899
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

BTW the scaling algorithms by each card vendor's driver:

http://www.avsforum.com/content/type/61/id/146945/
I thought Intel was using Lanczos 4 for downsampling? And Nvidia is using Bilinear plus sharpening when upscaling SD.
post #1709 of 2899
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

I thought Intel was using Lanczos 4 for downsampling? And Nvidia is using Bilinear plus sharpening when upscaling SD.
Maybe LZ+AR for image downscaling, almost definitely with sharpening (so it's hard to identify). C-R+AR+LL of madVR's own looks more natural, but it is very taxing. I have screenshots (FHD video in qHD display) of all madVR downscaling algorithms and AMD, NVIDIA, Intel DXVA2 downscaling, and compared. I may upload them somewhere.

As for NVIDIA, AFAIK only one person here pointed out that LZ is used in SD upscalng and BL for HD upscaling. I checked closely and found that's correct (the difference is pretty obvious, I wonder why nobody notices it). Again I have dozens of screenshots and may upload them.
Edited by renethx - 2/11/13 at 2:24am
post #1710 of 2899
I got a question kind of related to the above discussion about Madvr. What's the recommend setting for hw acceleration in Lav Video for an Intel based System (HD4000)? I got the impression that Quicksync is preferred for that scenario. But I noticed that deinterlacing is turned off in that case, whereas it's on (and looks much better) when I set this to either none or dxva2 (native). What should I use? Thanks
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