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Advanced MPC-HC Setup Guide - Page 70

post #2071 of 2897
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3dward View Post

What about higher ones? I ordinarily keep mine at 75 for gaming. It's rated for 60.

im curious why you have it at 75 for gaming?
post #2072 of 2897
Quote:
Originally Posted by dioxholster View Post

im curious why you have it at 75 for gaming?
Makes things a little bit smoother and more responsive. The same reason people buy 120+Hz monitors, just on a lesser scale.
post #2073 of 2897
Thanks for the guide Mindbomb. As in other posts I'm recycling small 13" laptop in place of original WDTV server for small cheap AV use.

I use handbreak to make a high quality / profile MP4 with two audio tracks. I was experimenting with the mp4 as my universal file between MPC, the iphone and a second usb media equipped TV. All is working well but sometimes MPC has a fit over the handbreak 5.1 AC3 pass thru.

I plan to read thru your filters and settings to see if any will help MPC/handbreak get along better. Sorry, nubee here.

Thanks for any input!
post #2074 of 2897
I followed the guide to setup reclock and it seems to be working, the symbol changes to green.

Now the display on my NAD receiver says Multi PCM? Am I still getting the same sound DTS-HD/TRUE HD that was showing before installing reclock?

Thanks
post #2075 of 2897
Quote:
Originally Posted by nozzey View Post

I followed the guide to setup reclock and it seems to be working, the symbol changes to green.

Now the display on my NAD receiver says Multi PCM? Am I still getting the same sound DTS-HD/TRUE HD that was showing before installing reclock?

Thanks
As it says in the first post, you can't bitstream with ReClock because it needs uncompressed audio in order to work its magic.

Sent from my Sensation using Tapatalk 4 Beta
post #2076 of 2897
ReClock needs to change sound a bit to do its magic - smoothness. Most people find that sound change is not notacible.
(needs to be added to the guide I think).
post #2077 of 2897
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qaq View Post

ReClock needs to change sound a bit to do its magic - smoothness. Most people find that sound change is not notacible.
(needs to be added to the guide I think).
On that note though, I opened a video in VLC yesterday and the intro music sounded weird, higher pitched I think tongue.gif

But it's not noticeable unless you're going straight from one to the other, more or less.
post #2078 of 2897
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nozzey View Post

I followed the guide to setup reclock and it seems to be working, the symbol changes to green.
Now the display on my NAD receiver says Multi PCM? Am I still getting the same sound DTS-HD/TRUE HD that was showing before installing reclock?
Thanks

you are still decoding truehd.
decoding dts-hd requires the dtsdecoderdll.dll, without it, you only get dts. (see optional - Advanced DTS and DTS-HD Decoding)

You can see what's being decoded by right clicking in the video>filters>lav audio>status tab.
note that dca=dts
Edited by MlNDBOMB - 6/24/13 at 2:55am
post #2079 of 2897
I have placed the dtsdecoderdll file in the LAV audio folder. I have attached a picture so you can see whats being decoded.


DTS.JPG 102k .JPG file
post #2080 of 2897
post #2081 of 2897
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nozzey View Post

I have placed the dtsdecoderdll file in the LAV audio folder. I have attached a picture so you can see whats being decoded.

That's good. Input Codec in lav audio is basically the equivalent to what your receiver was showing before when it was bitstreaming.
If it says dts-hd ma, it means you are decoding dts-hd ma.
post #2082 of 2897
Quote:
Originally Posted by MlNDBOMB View Post

That's good. Input Codec in lav audio is basically the equivalent to what your receiver was showing before when it was bitstreaming.
If it says dts-hd ma, it means you are decoding dts-hd ma.

Thanks mate. Really good guide you got going here.

I think since changing to Reclock, the sound is better and the picture is smoother. I have set the refresh rate to 24p and let reclock work its magic. So far so good. smile.gif
post #2083 of 2897
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3dward View Post

As it says in the first post, you can't bitstream with ReClock because it needs uncompressed audio in order to work its magic.

You can still use Reclock to get the highest most direct output using both bitstream and WASAPI. While true that then you can't use Reclock to change the clocks, it will still work when bitstreaming.
post #2084 of 2897
Quote:
Originally Posted by fairchild99 View Post

You can still use Reclock to get the highest most direct output using both bitstream and WASAPI. While true that then you can't use Reclock to change the clocks, it will still work when bitstreaming.
Ah, OK.
post #2085 of 2897
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3dward View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by nozzey View Post

I followed the guide to setup reclock and it seems to be working, the symbol changes to green.

Now the display on my NAD receiver says Multi PCM? Am I still getting the same sound DTS-HD/TRUE HD that was showing before installing reclock?

Thanks
As it says in the first post, you can't bitstream with ReClock because it needs uncompressed audio in order to work its magic.

Sent from my Sensation using Tapatalk 4 Beta

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qaq View Post

ReClock needs to change sound a bit to do its magic - smoothness. Most people find that sound change is not notacible.
(needs to be added to the guide I think).

The sound is still PCM, it just has that the timing is forece to matche the video and is decoded by the PC and passed to the AVR as PCM rather than as compressed HD Audio. There is no difference in what gets to your speakers. I personally don't use reclock at this time because I can live with a frame drop or repeat that occurs maybe once during a two-hour movie.
post #2086 of 2897
I don't know if my 1080i content is playing back correctly.

It's detected as 29.97fps in MediaInfo and madVR, ReClock sometimes detects 29.97fps and speeds it up to 30fps. Sometimes though, ReClock says that the video is actually 23.976fps so it proceeds to give me an error because my display refresh rate isn't a multiple of 24 (it always stays at 60Hz with madVR's switching set to 50, 60 or 72).

Fullscreen exclusive mode seems to be better than windowed.

I can see combing sometimes - should I be able to? (EDIT: I think these might be artifacts in the TV recording)

Example of "combing":

Just tested Planet Earth (VC-1 1080p) and it's a similar situation - ReClock doesn't seem to know if it's 23.976 or 29.97, and also says it's 1080i confused.gif

How would I know if media is telecined, and that I need to force film mode?

What should I set on this page?

Sorry for so many questions tongue.gif
Edited by 3dward - 6/26/13 at 4:45am
post #2087 of 2897
What's the source? If it's a film, it's going to be 23.976, whether it's native (blu-ray) or a 1080i broadcast with telecine flags. You can enable IVTC in MadVR and use the keyboard shortcut to force film mode. I do that and the refresh rate change works as well, so I can then get smooth playback.
post #2088 of 2897
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDLIVE View Post

What's the source? If it's a film, it's going to be 23.976, whether it's native (blu-ray) or a 1080i broadcast with telecine flags. You can enable IVTC in MadVR and use the keyboard shortcut to force film mode. I do that and the refresh rate change works as well, so I can then get smooth playback.
It's Game of Thrones (a TV show, on the off chance you haven't heard of it lol). The Blu-ray releases run at 1080p24 obviously, but I'm not sure what I should be doing with the 1080i broadcast recordings.
post #2089 of 2897
Thread Starter 
yea, that should be 23.976.
ctrl+alt+shift+T to force film mode.

You can also add ivtc in your graphics card's control panel to have it work all the time, but then the problem is with the display mode changer which will erroneously choose the 29.97hz multiple.
post #2090 of 2897
I have tried the ctrl+alt+shift+T to force film mode with dvd's that are movies and it won't take, it just stays in video mode, it won't toggle to force film
post #2091 of 2897
Quote:
Originally Posted by MlNDBOMB View Post

yea, that should be 23.976.
ctrl+alt+shift+T to force film mode.

You can also add ivtc in your graphics card's control panel to have it work all the time, but then the problem is with the display mode changer which will erroneously choose the 29.97hz multiple.
OK, thanks. How would I know if I should be playing something back at 24 or 30, though?

There's one more problem: when I force film mode, either by making it default in the madVR settings, or by switching it whilst playing with ctrl+alt+shift+t, ReClock thinks the video is 29.97 still, so it won't speed it up to 25 :/

EDIT: JL-F1, have you tried pressing it multiple times? I think one press just shows what the current setting is, but pressing it again should go through all the settings (auto, film, video).
post #2092 of 2897
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JL-F1 View Post

I have tried the ctrl+alt+shift+T to force film mode with dvd's that are movies and it won't take, it just stays in video mode, it won't toggle to force film

Film mode deinterlacing won't work with dxva native in lav video, you have to select dxva copyback or none. This is my bad, since I used to instruct people to use dxva native.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3dward View Post

OK, thanks. How would I know if I should be playing something back at 24 or 30, though?

There's one more problem: when I force film mode, either by making it default in the madVR settings, or by switching it whilst playing with ctrl+alt+shift+t, ReClock thinks the video is 29.97 still, so it won't speed it up to 25 :/

hmm, thats a good question. I dont know a good rule of thumb, but shows like dexter, homeland, game of thrones, these tend to be 23.976. Sports tends to be 29.97.

Reclock should be able to detect the right framerate, just give it some time. As long as you have built in video estimator checked (config reclock>video settings tab).
Edited by MlNDBOMB - 6/27/13 at 11:58am
post #2093 of 2897
Quote:
Originally Posted by MlNDBOMB View Post

Film mode deinterlacing won't work with dxva native in lav video, you have to select dxva copyback or none. This is my bad, since I used to instruct people to use dxva native.
hmm, thats a good question. I dont know a good rule of thumb, but shows like dexter, homeland, game of thrones, these tend to be 23.976. Sports tends to be 29.97.

Reclock should be able to detect the right framerate, just give it some time. As long as you have built in video estimator checked (config reclock>video settings tab).
I probably mostly watch the first type, so I think I'll leave it as film mode for default.

You're right, actually. I was being impatient. It does take quite a while, but eventually it comes to the right conclusion. Windowed mode is hopeless, though - the ivtc and rendering times go down after switching to fullscreen exclusive, which allows it to actually maintain a consistent frame rate.

I think I've got everything sorted out now :P thanks again.
Edited by 3dward - 6/27/13 at 1:13pm
post #2094 of 2897
I have a question about optimal 2.0 audio output from MPC-HC.

I followed the guide (which was excellent), and have MPC-HC, LAV Filters, madVR, and Reclock installed and working fine.

I output sound from my PC through S/PDIF (optical) to my DAC (Rega DAC) for output through a 2 channel integrated amp, so I'm entirely in the two-channel domain. Since Reclock is configured to output PCM using WASAPI and will bypass the Windows mixer, I have LAV Audio Decoder configured to mix down to stereo, with all bitstream formats turned off and 24/32 bit formats disabled (since 48kHz @ 24 bit doesn't seem to play well with the optical output of my motherboard). Is this the best method for downmixing to stereo, or is there a dedicated filter out there for downmixing to stereo that you guys prefer?

(oh, also, what does the "Clipping Protection" setting do in LAV Audio Decoder? I read the tooltip and some posts in the doom9 forums, but I couldn't figure out whether I should have it enabled)
post #2095 of 2897
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvin4653 View Post

I have a question about optimal 2.0 audio output from MPC-HC.

I followed the guide (which was excellent), and have MPC-HC, LAV Filters, madVR, and Reclock installed and working fine.

I output sound from my PC through S/PDIF (optical) to my DAC (Rega DAC) for output through a 2 channel integrated amp, so I'm entirely in the two-channel domain. Since Reclock is configured to output PCM using WASAPI and will bypass the Windows mixer, I have LAV Audio Decoder configured to mix down to stereo, with all bitstream formats turned off and 24/32 bit formats disabled (since 48kHz @ 24 bit doesn't seem to play well with the optical output of my motherboard). Is this the best method for downmixing to stereo, or is there a dedicated filter out there for downmixing to stereo that you guys prefer?

(oh, also, what does the "Clipping Protection" setting do in LAV Audio Decoder? I read the tooltip and some posts in the doom9 forums, but I couldn't figure out whether I should have it enabled)
Fairly sure that's setup exactly as it should be. I run the same audio configuration, except that my DAC connects via USB instead.
post #2096 of 2897
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvin4653 View Post

I have a question about optimal 2.0 audio output from MPC-HC.

I followed the guide (which was excellent), and have MPC-HC, LAV Filters, madVR, and Reclock installed and working fine.

I output sound from my PC through S/PDIF (optical) to my DAC (Rega DAC) for output through a 2 channel integrated amp, so I'm entirely in the two-channel domain. Since Reclock is configured to output PCM using WASAPI and will bypass the Windows mixer, I have LAV Audio Decoder configured to mix down to stereo, with all bitstream formats turned off and 24/32 bit formats disabled (since 48kHz @ 24 bit doesn't seem to play well with the optical output of my motherboard). Is this the best method for downmixing to stereo, or is there a dedicated filter out there for downmixing to stereo that you guys prefer?

(oh, also, what does the "Clipping Protection" setting do in LAV Audio Decoder? I read the tooltip and some posts in the doom9 forums, but I couldn't figure out whether I should have it enabled)

I imagine it is fine for just mixing. It mixes in 32 float afaik, and that is pretty high quality. Plus, reclock also works in 32 float, so there is some synergy there.
Clipping protection, I'm not exactly sure what it does, but it is on by default, and the default values were carefully chosen, so I would leave it on.

Also, you can choose the output bit depth (16/24 bit) in configure reclock>format. Don't deselect the formats in lav audio, it's better to just specify the right format in reclock. I'm surprised 24 bit padded to 32 isn't working out for you, you can try 24 bit as well, to see if that works. It'd be a shame not to have 24 bit audio working on a 24 bit dac, though reclock's 16 bit output is dithered, so it should sound pretty good.
post #2097 of 2897
Thanks for the confirmation guys. I'll change the LAV Audio Decoder settings to pass the full bit depth to Reclock, and reduce as needed there. (The 48/24 problem has me stumped. I'm able to play 96/24 files in foobar using WASAPI, so I'm surprised that trying to output 48/24 from Reclock generates an error on playback. I'll have to try to track down a 48/24 audio file to play in foobar to see if the problem lies in my MPC-HC setup and not in my hardware).

I did a little more reading about the "Clipping Protection" and "Normalize Matrix" settings, and it appears that both of those settings attempt to compensate for the increase in levels that naturally results from folding 5 or more channels of audio into two channels. Turning on Normalize Matrix appears to, well, normalize the levels of the resulting stereo downmix to preserve the original dynamic range of the multichannel source material.

Clipping Protection, on the other hand, seems to take a "wait and see" approach: the stereo downmix is output without normalization, meaning that the output levels will be "louder" now that material from five channels was combined into two channels. That increase in levels runs the risk of clipping, and so if Clipping Protection detects an impending clip in the audio during playback, it dynamically reduces the total volume of the audio output. I think the effect would be that if a loud explosion or similar effect occurred that would cause clipping, the viewer would momentarily hear the overall volume level drop during that passage to prevent the clip (which would be a bit of a weird effect I'd think).

I was scared of the "Normalize Matrix" setting from the two-channel audio world, where normalization usually means compression of dynamic range or other lossy manipulations, but it seems like that's the best setting here. nevcairiel said Clipping Protection was provided as an alternative to Normalize Matrix only because:
Quote:
some people complained that the resulting audio [after normalization] was not loud enough for their low-powered speakers/headphones (because the volume of all channels is reduced to remove the theoretical possibility of clipping)
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1581896#post1581896


The only disappointing thing is that LAV Audio Decoder doesn't seem to pick up on downmix metadata that may be present on a Dolby Digital AC3 stream (or others, I'm sure, but the references I saw were to DD). I learned that audio engineers creating a DD soundtrack have the ability to embed the level at which each channel in the multichannel soundtrack should be mixed when downmixing to stereo. LAV's default settings correspond to what seem to be the "default" Dolby specifications for downmixing when the audio engineer doesn't specify coefficients, but LAV doesn't appear to have the ability to pick up on those mixing coefficients if they are present in the AC3 metadata.
Quote:
Note that some audio formats allow for metadata containing custom downmixing coefficients. I don't think LAV Audio uses them though, which is unfortunate.
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1611920#post1611920
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1555028#post1555028
Edited by marvin4653 - 6/27/13 at 6:28pm
post #2098 of 2897
Mindbomb, thanks for the tip about using 24 bit padded to 32; that's working for me. To be honest I never tried that option because I assumed my playback chain couldn't handle 32 bit audio (I didn't quite grasp the padding concept), and because foobar is successfully set to 24 bit output (but just discovered after a little searching that foobar will pad a 24 bit output behind the scenes if it detects that the driver requires data in that format).

Just thinking out loud about LAV Audio and downmixing, it's too bad that LAV doesn't offer some of the basic decoding options that a multichannel A/V receiver would offer. Both Dolby and DTS streams have the ability to carry downmixing metadata, which an A/V receiver would likely use to prepare a downmix that conforms to the audio engineer's specification. While LAV supports Dolby's DRC metadata, there's no DRC options available for DTS material (thought I suppose that's really DTS's fault). Some of the other filters out there seem offer some of this functionality (like AC3Filter and ffdshow), but they seem to have greater problems (AC3Filter's limit to five channels and inability to handle DTS-HD, and ffdshow's obsolescence). I guess most people are probably moving to bitstreaming to A/V receivers and can just do this processing there, but my two-channel setup leaves me to do all the processing on the computer. It seems a little silly to pick up a cheap A/V receiver and bitstream to it just so it can act like a processor, but I'm having hard time thinking of alternatives.
Edited by marvin4653 - 6/27/13 at 10:53pm
post #2099 of 2897
Hello people. Noob here.

I just want to ask is this all necessary to do in order to get quality picture? And is it a big difference between stock settings and this? And what is madVR and LAV, and which is better to use? Lol. I might sound like a total idiot now, but just trying to figure all these things out. I will be watching Blu-rays and Blu-ray rips so, should I do all that in this guide? Thanks.
post #2100 of 2897
First off, tell us what you HTPC system is so we can better advise you.
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