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Advanced MPC-HC Setup Guide - Page 75

post #2221 of 2895
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Difference. There is no to big difference depending on the content and settings.

LAV source splitter is better.

ffdshow is actually decoder + post-processors. LAV is better as a pure video/audio decoder.

MPC-HC and most media players use DS. ffdshow, LAV, madVR are all DS filters.

I don't know what source splitter I have now but it opens .mkv files without any problems.. So, that's why I'm asking..

So if I want LAV+EVR -> I should download LAV only as I have EVR? (and please do tell me with simple words what's the difference between EVR and EVR cp, and which is better)
..and if I want ffdshow + EVR -> I should download what? this is where I'm completely lost.. I checked some website and it said they stopped developing the ffdshow thing.. so what do I do?
post #2222 of 2895
Thread Starter 
imo, you should actually just follow the guide.
madvr with dxva scaling will likely perform well enough, plus it supports xy subfilter.

the mpc hc nightlies have lav built in, so you don't have to install it.
post #2223 of 2895
Quote:
Originally Posted by MlNDBOMB View Post

imo, you should actually just follow the guide.
madvr with dxva scaling will likely perform well enough, plus it supports xy subfilter.

the mpc hc nightlies have lav built in, so you don't have to install it.

That doesnt answers my questions.. I don't need to follow the guide (which is btw brilliant, but not for me), I will use what I already have as I think MPC HC is already a solid player.
post #2224 of 2895
Okay. Two of the smartest folks on this site gave you advice which you declined. Carry on as you wish.
post #2225 of 2895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Okay. Two of the smartest folks on this site gave you advice which you declined. Carry on as you wish.

Who said they are not smart? I asked a few simple (simple for them anyways) questions and wanted answers.. Is that really a lot?
post #2226 of 2895
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDevil View Post


1. What's the default renderer in MPC-HC?
2. What's the default decoder?
3. What are the default splitters if any?
4. Media Foundation and ffdshow are decoders right?
5. Do I need to install MF or ffdshow (if I don't already have them)?
6. Which one is the better?
7. What's the difference between EVR and EVR custom pres.?
8. Which is the better one?
9. Do I only need decoder and renderer or I need splitter too?
10. Next is that source splitter filter.. Do I not have it already?
11. Is LAV better than my default/current?
12. And the last thing is video/audio decoder.. and the question is similar.. Can I not use ffdshow (which I believe covers both Audio and Video) instead ?
13. Does MPC HC use MF or DS?
14. And if MPC HC uses DirectShow, I should have ffdshow as well or do I?
15. So if I want LAV+EVR -> I should download LAV only as I have EVR?
16 ..and if I want ffdshow + EVR -> I should download what?
17. I checked some website and it said they stopped developing the ffdshow thing.. so what do I do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDevil View Post

I asked a few simple (simple for them anyways) questions and wanted answers.. Is that really a lot?

post #2227 of 2895
I followed this guide for the configuration, using the lav filters but not madvr -using evr. However, the video is not smooth - a bit jerky. I want to make sure I have the basics down before I try reclock or smooth motion. Is there a a place where I can find the proper renderer settings or other settings that could affect this? (The audio on the otherhand is amazing) Thank you so much.
post #2228 of 2895
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDevil View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Difference. There is no to big difference depending on the content and settings.

LAV source splitter is better.

ffdshow is actually decoder + post-processors. LAV is better as a pure video/audio decoder.

MPC-HC and most media players use DS. ffdshow, LAV, madVR are all DS filters.

I don't know what source splitter I have now but it opens .mkv files without any problems.. So, that's why I'm asking..

So if I want LAV+EVR -> I should download LAV only as I have EVR? (and please do tell me with simple words what's the difference between EVR and EVR cp, and which is better)
..and if I want ffdshow + EVR -> I should download what? this is where I'm completely lost.. I checked some website and it said they stopped developing the ffdshow thing.. so what do I do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gerall View Post

I followed this guide for the configuration, using the lav filters but not madvr -using evr. However, the video is not smooth - a bit jerky. I want to make sure I have the basics down before I try reclock or smooth motion. Is there a a place where I can find the proper renderer settings or other settings that could affect this? (The audio on the otherhand is amazing) Thank you so much.

Click on the "Difference" link above.

BTW, EVR (CP) is EVR with the ability to render subtitles.
post #2229 of 2895
Why not just give up on it and use what everyone told you. Is it that hard?
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it". You know that part a, b, and c run perfectly together, but you are obsessed with making a, y and c run together when they don't want to, and are inferior.

If you were my employee I'd fire you for costing company time on a frivolous side project with no benefit.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 4
Edited by goros - 8/19/13 at 4:18pm
post #2230 of 2895
Doubletap
post #2231 of 2895
I can't believe what I'm reading. Ok. Forget it. Everyone here seems to not understand what I asked. Forget it.
post #2232 of 2895
Hi guys... hopefully someone will be able to help.

Have followed the guide and believe I have it set up mostly. The only thing im unsure about is the use of Reclock and getting surround sound. Have read a few things on different sites and guides (ones basically the exact same as this) and it talks about disabling bit streaming of DTS and DD etc lettings the Reclock recieve the raw sound etc but then what happens with it? Will it then transmit true surround to an AVR with 5.1? I find the guide to brush over the audio output quickly and just mention off handedly about putting the dtsdecoderdll.dll in the folder and boom done.

For the best sound from my AVR am I best to just use LAV and not worry about Reclock or can i achieve the same quality of surround?

Im confused by this detailed post which talks about bitstreaming WITH reclock. http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1534720&postcount=188
post #2233 of 2895
Thread Starter 
yea, you still can get surround sound with reclock, in the form of multichannel pcm. You need an hdmi connection to digitally transmit multichannel pcm.
you technically can bitstream with reclock if you disable reclock's core functionality, but that defeats the purpose of using reclock, so I don't recommend it.

Ultimately, the decision to use reclock comes down to how much you value video smoothness vs audio purity.
I recommend using reclock if possible.
Edited by MlNDBOMB - 8/21/13 at 9:36am
post #2234 of 2895
Question: what happens to *analog* audio output in mpc/LAV with the relevant TMT files? Assume the source is ripped BRs or MKVs.
post #2235 of 2895
Thread Starter 
im not sure i understand. what do you mean?
post #2236 of 2895
Neither am I.
Bitstreaming with LAV will send truHD and DTS-HD to a receiver via HDMI. What happens using analog output (onboard or sound card)? I assume it will all be downsampled to 16/48.
post #2237 of 2895
Thread Starter 
ok, so lets take 24 bit Truehd for example.
Lav audio decodes 24 bit truehd to 24 bit pcm. 24 bit PCM gets sent to the audio renderer. The default directsound renderer or reclock both convert it to 32 float for additional processing. Then, in the case of directsound, it is converted to the default format, which you select in control panel. In the case of reclock with wasapi, it is converted to what you select in the reclock config (24 bit padded to 32 is what the guide suggests). After that, it is sent to the sound card.

Basically, if you are trying to decide between digital and analog, it really comes down to the quality of the sound card vs the receiver.
Edited by MlNDBOMB - 8/21/13 at 12:19pm
post #2238 of 2895
A lot of these terms are new to me. Have read a thread about the forms of DTS and DD i.e. lossless, lossy etc. When multichannel pcm is outputed to the AVR will it then recognise it as DTS or as solely multichannel. If the latter...is this still as the same/similar quality as if the DTS had been bitstreamed (will the discreet channels/associated volume levels come out the same)? Another related question. Currently have set up Reclock to bitstream as per the guide (will set it back to NO bitstream if I continue with Reclock) I posted and currently if the input audio is stereo, the AVR has the option to use Dolby Pro Logic II etc, if DTS in put DTS output. (I like this as my previous methods didn’t have this however I don’t know what settings it is doing this, could just be how LAV/reclock etc work). Using Reclock without bitstreaming and outputting PCM, will stereo input come out as stereo output and have the option for Dolby Pro Logic OR Stereo and will DTS input come out as multichannel (or DTS as per starting question) with the option for Stereo also? Hope im making some sense here. Thanks in advance for helping here

EDIT: PS. Is it possible to set WMP-HC up so that when double clicking the movie file you wish to open that it does not begin to auto play? i.e waits until you give the command to start? There is an auto-start (might be called something slightly different) tick box in wmp-hc in the options somewhere however this doesn't change anything and have a feeling this option might be related to auto-starting a files in the playlist one after the other.
Edited by jimmycent - 8/21/13 at 8:37pm
post #2239 of 2895
Thread Starter 
It will be recognized as pcm. The conversion to pcm doesnt reduce quality. The wasapi setting in reclock is responsible for stereo in-stereo out. I recommend people use wasapi, so there should be no change. The settings you have to undo to have reclock set up my way is the "slave reference clock" and media adaptation settings.

Also, first make sure your receiver supports multichannel pcm and you are using an hdmi connection.
post #2240 of 2895
Quote:
Originally Posted by MlNDBOMB View Post

ok, so lets take 24 bit Truehd for example.
Lav audio decodes 24 bit truehd to 24 bit pcm. 24 bit PCM gets sent to the audio renderer. The default directsound renderer or reclock both convert it to 32 float for additional processing. Then, in the case of directsound, it is converted to the default format, which you select in control panel. In the case of reclock with wasapi, it is converted to what you select in the reclock config (24 bit padded to 32 is what the guide suggests). After that, it is sent to the sound card.

Basically, if you are trying to decide between digital and analog, it really comes down to the quality of the sound card vs the receiver.
Or the quality of an external USB DAC, whcih at least for 2 channel, will provide much better sound than a receiver or sound card.
post #2241 of 2895
Got it all working now using Reclock passing through PCM. Might sound a bit pathetic but don't get the same kick out of just seeing "Multi Channel" as opposed to the DTS or Dolby Dig text pop up on the receiver for the input rolleyes.gif

Anyone know about my second question re: preventing auto starting of opened files with WMP-HC?
post #2242 of 2895
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmycent View Post

Got it all working now using Reclock passing through PCM. Might sound a bit pathetic but don't get the same kick out of just seeing "Multi Channel" as opposed to the DTS or Dolby Dig text pop up on the receiver for the input rolleyes.gif

Anyone know about my second question re: preventing auto starting of opened files with WMP-HC?
Honestly, I think about 50% of questions in this thread are people wondering if they get inferior audio quality when using ReClock, because it says PCM on their receiver rather than DTS-HD etc. tongue.gif

As for your other question, I seem to have got what you want working by going to options, playback, and in the "Playback" box changing 1 time to 0. That way, I open a file and it just stays paused at the beginning until I hit play myself.
post #2243 of 2895
I tried to do a certain amount of reading up on it to get a quick and fast answer to the "inferior quality" question but with so many new terms things would get confusing when scimm reading. Once I knew what I was wanting to compare i.e PCM to DTS it became clear they were the basically the same thing. What I still dont quite understand is how LAV audio gets involved? Is it decoding the audio and putting it into PCM which is then sent to Reclock which then goes to the AVR? When setting it up it felt like LAV gets pushed to the side and not required however if that was the case we wouldnt of needed to put the dtsdecoderdll.dll in the LAV folder.

Setting the "Playback" from 1 to 0 worked! smile.gif Isnt really very obvious that changing this would have that effect but very happy with the result.

Hoping this isnt off topic from this board but anyone using some sort of media manager as opposed to a full on HTPC solution (i.e. mediaportal) but presents their data in a similar way to these solutions. What im sort of imagining is a windowed version of the movies/tv shows section. I find with the amount of web browsing and torrenting I do with the HTPC starting up something like mediaportal is slow and unnecessary but it would be nice to some slight bit of presentation similar to it when browsing through the library. I have a feeling something like THIS might work however havent tried it out and think it might only help scrap the data ready for XBMC, although if it does have a sort of standalone media manager function might be what im looking for.
post #2244 of 2895
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmycent View Post

I tried to do a certain amount of reading up on it to get a quick and fast answer to the "inferior quality" question but with so many new terms things would get confusing when scimm reading. Once I knew what I was wanting to compare i.e PCM to DTS it became clear they were the basically the same thing. What I still dont quite understand is how LAV audio gets involved? Is it decoding the audio and putting it into PCM which is then sent to Reclock which then goes to the AVR? When setting it up it felt like LAV gets pushed to the side and not required however if that was the case we wouldnt of needed to put the dtsdecoderdll.dll in the LAV folder.

Setting the "Playback" from 1 to 0 worked! smile.gif Isnt really very obvious that changing this would have that effect but very happy with the result.

Hoping this isnt off topic from this board but anyone using some sort of media manager as opposed to a full on HTPC solution (i.e. mediaportal) but presents their data in a similar way to these solutions. What im sort of imagining is a windowed version of the movies/tv shows section. I find with the amount of web browsing and torrenting I do with the HTPC starting up something like mediaportal is slow and unnecessary but it would be nice to some slight bit of presentation similar to it when browsing through the library. I have a feeling something like THIS might work however havent tried it out and think it might only help scrap the data ready for XBMC, although if it does have a sort of standalone media manager function might be what im looking for.
As I understand it, that's exactly right. LAV decodes the audio from (for example) DTS to PCM, and then ReClock re-samples it if necessary.

Yeah, the setting isn't very obvious. But I just noticed it and thought it might be worth a try.

I can't really help you with your next question as I just open files in MPC. I did try setting up XBMC at some point but realised it was a bit pointless for my setup. Might be nice to have something like you describe though.

EDIT: Gah, I don't think I did fix my issue with playing 1080i. I'm watching Top Gear and clearly film mode deinterlacing isn't what I want. But in video mode, I still get the dropped frames and so on.
Edited by 3dward - 8/23/13 at 12:30pm
post #2245 of 2895
Thread Starter 
try the setting "use half frame rate for dxva deinterlacing" in the trade quality for performance section.

what happens with video deinterlacing is the frame rate is doubled, so you have to render twice as fast to keep up. maybe that is the issue?
post #2246 of 2895
Quote:
Originally Posted by MlNDBOMB View Post

try the setting "use half frame rate for dxva deinterlacing" in the trade quality for performance section.

what happens with video deinterlacing is the frame rate is doubled, so you have to render twice as fast to keep up. maybe that is the issue?
Well, after 5 minutes with that setting turned on it seems to be OK (no dropped frames). What I don't get though is how the graphics card can't keep up with rendering ordinarily, given that the GPU usage sits at around 50% or less. Perhaps it has more to do with the memory than the GPU core. Thanks, anyway - it seems to be working better. What's the downside to quality now I've turned on this setting?
post #2247 of 2895
Thread Starter 
frame rate isnt doubled, thats the downside.
post #2248 of 2895
Quote:
Originally Posted by MlNDBOMB View Post

try the setting "use half frame rate for dxva deinterlacing" in the trade quality for performance section.

what happens with video deinterlacing is the frame rate is doubled, so you have to render twice as fast to keep up. maybe that is the issue?
I have the same problem. MPC-HC with MadVR won't do video mode deinterlacing properly on my card (AMD 5450) even with half frame rate turned on. I get hundreds of dropped frames per second. XBMC plays these 1080i files back perfectly at 59.94 fps with no dropped frames. On the other hand, XBMC doesn't do IVTC properly (I get skipped or glitchy frames), so I have to use MadVR "film mode" for this, which works good. Each piece of software does the opposite thing perfect and the other terribly. Makes no sense.
post #2249 of 2895
Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post

....I get hundreds of dropped frames per second.

Even 1080p/60 only has 60 frames per second so I doubt it can be hundreds per second... wink.gif
post #2250 of 2895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killroy View Post

Even 1080p/60 only has 60 frames per second so I doubt it can be hundreds per second... wink.gif
Haha, I meant per minute.
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