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The "official" Yamaha AVENTAGE RX-A710/810/1010/2010/3010 thread - Page 38

post #1111 of 2580
5/6/12 at 5:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by LachieR View Post

Hello,

Have just set-up a new Yamaha RX-A710 and also downloaded the AV Controller app on my iPhone. Despite all efforts following instructions, the phone does not detect any signal from the receiver at all.

In addition, the information screen within set-up contains no IP address.

Do I need to purchase any additional components or should the AV receiver be ready to transmit wireless "out of the box" ?

Thanks in advance,

Lachie

It does not transmit wireless out of the box. You will need to connect it to your home network with a wireless bridge or hard wire it.
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Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #1112 of 2580
5/6/12 at 9:16am
I have had an RX-V3900 for nearly four years and love it. Unfortunately, though, I have run out of HDMI inputs so am considering buying an Aventage unit, probably the A2010. From reading this thread it appears that the 2010 and 3010 are significantly more feature rich than my 3900. I have been particularly intrigued by all the current iteration of YPAO provides, although it appears that it still requires the user to set his subs manually. That's no big deal, though, I have an SPL meter, which I have used to set my subs ever since I bought my first Yamaha, an RX-V2400, in 2004. Thanks to all for the useful information provided here.

I just downloaded Yamaha's receiver app for both the iPad and iPhone and was blown away. The last time I tried it, which admittedly was some time ago, it wasn't ready for prime time. Now, though, it is impressive indeed.
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post #1113 of 2580
5/6/12 at 12:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsadaka View Post

I just installed a new RX-A1010. (replaced a 12 yr old DSP-A1)

Not really that happy so far. One big issue

Cannot get Digital Audio (DD, DTS) on an HDMI input!

- According to on-screen Information display, the Format is PCM whenever an HDMI input is used. I am using a PS/3 (Blue-Ray) as my source.
- If a add a TOSLink cable between the optical outputs of the PS/3 and AVR, and change input selector to use COAX/OPT, I DO in fact, get Dolby Digital 5.1 (The Dark Knight, which is suppossed to be True HD)

Is this supposed to behave this way? If so, this is a serious limitation and one I can't believe I haven't read about. Could it be the PS/3?


Any ideas?

TIA,
Dan

Hello all,
I have a similar concern/question about my Xbox 360. When I previously played games on my Xbox 360, the A1010 would display Dolby Digital and the 5 speakers and sub would light up in the bottom right corner of the display on the receiver. I have recently added a pair of front presence speakers for 7.1. Since I have had the 7.1 setup (about a week) I would enable to Cinema DSP program for all speakers to light up on the display and the display would still say Dolby Digital.

However, today I was playing a game and the receiver was displaying PCM. I did not remember changing anything in the setup menu that would cause this, but that doesn't necessarily mean that I didn't changed anything. Anyway, after turning off the 360 and checking the settings, the receiver now displays Dolby D EX with Cinema DSP enabled and Dolby Digital without the DSP program. The receiver also does the same thing when I watch a Blu-Ray, it would previously display DTS-HD MSTR with no DSP and DTS-EX Mtrx with DSP enabled for 7.1 (it has done this since I added the two speakers - but does not do it for Dolby True HD). Is this the correct display information for the receiver for both Blu-Ray and the 360?

I have searched for a topic/problem similar to this but all I found was the above mentioned PS3 situation, my apologies if this has been discussed previously. I thank you for your time and appreciate any and all information provided.
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post #1114 of 2580
5/6/12 at 12:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

I have had an RX-V3900 for nearly four years and love it. Unfortunately, though, I have run out of HDMI inputs so am considering buying an Aventage unit, probably the A2010. From reading this thread it appears that the 2010 and 3010 are significantly more feature rich than my 3900. I have been particularly intrigued by all the current iteration of YPAO provides, although it appears that it still requires the user to set his subs manually. That's no big deal, though, I have an SPL meter, which I have used to set my subs ever since I bought my first Yamaha, an RX-V2400, in 2004. Thanks to all for the useful information provided here.

I just downloaded Yamaha's receiver app for both the iPad and iPhone and was blown away. The last time I tried it, which admittedly was some time ago, it wasn't ready for prime time. Now, though, it is impressive indeed.

The app really kicks ass and gives you quick access to many functions. I've found it to be especially helpful when hosting parties. I'm a siriusxm junky and use the siriusxm Internet streaming feature, which interfaces well on my iPad.

I'm not real fond of ypao, which is my largest complaint about owning the flagship aventage model. You will be fine with an spl meter.
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post #1115 of 2580
5/6/12 at 1:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GiTcHaSuM View Post

However, today I was playing a game and the receiver was displaying PCM.

Assuming you're using HDMI, this is what you want when playing games. PCM is a raw uncompressed format, Dolby Digital a lossy compressed format. If you configure your Xbox 360 to use Dolby Digital instead of multichannel PCM then it has to take the raw uncompressed multichannel PCM data the game generates and then compress it using Dobly Digital. Your receiver then has to uncompress the bitstream and the resulting PCM data isn't exactly the same because Dolby Digtal is lossy.

You only want to use Dolby Digital with games when your audio connection is through an optical SPDIF cable. Unlike HDMI it doesn't have enough bandwith support raw multichannel PCM, so you need to use compressed formats like Dolby Digital to support more than two channels.

While it's not clear to me what your problem with Blu-Ray is exactly, it might be similar. You do not want to use Dolby Digital if you can possibly avoid it. DTS HD Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD are superior lossless compressed formats, and decode to the same raw PCM data that was originally compressed. It doesn't usually matter if your receiver or Blu-Ray player does this decoding, as it results in the same PCM data. If you're seeing PCM when playing Blu-Rays this shouldn't be a problem, it just means your Blu-Ray player is doing the decoding.
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post #1116 of 2580
5/6/12 at 1:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomous View Post

I'm not real fond of ypao, which is my largest complaint about owning the flagship aventage model. You will be fine with an spl meter.

I've used Yamaha receivers with YPAO since 2004 and long ago made my peace with it. I would prefer for it to know to set my speakers to small and accurately setup my sub on its own. Fortunately, manually setting my speaker size and crossover frequency is no big deal and, as you noted, manually setting up a sub is pretty easy, too, if you have an SPL meter.
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post #1117 of 2580
5/6/12 at 1:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross Ridge View Post

Assuming you're using HDMI, this is what you want when playing games. PCM is a raw uncompressed format, Dolby Digital a lossy compressed format. If you configure your Xbox 360 to use Dolby Digital instead of multichannel PCM then it has to take the raw uncompressed multichannel PCM data the game generates and then compress it using Dobly Digital. Your receiver then has to uncompress the bitstream and the resulting PCM data isn't exactly the same because Dolby Digtal is lossy.

While it's not clear to me what your problem with Blu-Ray is exactly, it might be similar. You do not want to use Dolby Digital if you can possibly avoid it. DTS HD Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD are superior lossless compressed formats, and decode to the same raw PCM data that was originally compressed. It doesn't usually matter if your receiver or Blu-Ray player does this decoding, as it results in the same PCM data. If you're seeing PCM when playing Blu-Rays this shouldn't be a problem, it just means your Blu-Ray player is doing the decoding.

A couple of comments:

If using the PS3 for BR's.. only the newer Slim models will bitstream the lossless codecs... the older models do not (and should be set for PCM output.)

Also, if you have a new AVR, you need to re-run the audio setup on the PS3.... it queries whatever HDMI device is attached to it and finds out what formats the device can handle.. if you had it hooked up to another AVR, you should always re-run the audio setup.

Regarding the Xbox 360 and audio output..

Almost all 360 games use native DD output for audio.. while PCM can be output, there is no reason to do what... the game engines use PCM for audio internally (sometimes at mixed rates, etc.) but the consoles both support real time encoding into DD output using the audio API's built in..

The same goes for the PS3...

Unlike the HD-DVD players of long ago, the PCM/TrueHD/DTS-HD to lossy conversion isn't the case here...

Quote:


You only want to use Dolby Digital with games when your audio connection is through an optical SPDIF cable. Unlike HDMI it doesn't have enough bandwith support raw multichannel PCM, so you need to use compressed formats like Dolby Digital to support more than two channels.

See above...

DD is the proper output for the Xbox 360.. even when using HDMI.

There is no loss of audio quality using DD output... as I said, there are relatively few "native" PCM titles (I only recall seeing one since the consoles launched (it was a PS3 title, IIRC.)
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post #1118 of 2580
5/6/12 at 2:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

I've used Yamaha receivers with YPAO since 2004 and long ago made my peace with it. I would prefer for it to know to set my speakers to small and accurately setup my sub on its own. Fortunately, manually setting my speaker size and crossover frequency is no big deal and, as you noted, manually setting up a sub is pretty easy, too, if you have an SPL meter.

The comments from others about what YPAO does to the sub output is still confusing to me..

Many claim loss of <30Hz on the subwoofer output, but I'm still not seeing how this is done (i.e. there doesn't seem to be a filter in the Yamaha that could do this..)

Not doubting what people are observing, but still lacking clarity on what/how/why..

One of the great things about the Yamaha's is the ability to totally tweak what YPAO measures.... a rarity in AVR's at this price point.

Add to that the addition to RSC with the A3010 (and it appears on their brand new RX-V receiver) and I still think YPAO is a fairly good, and unique, solution.
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post #1119 of 2580
5/6/12 at 2:23pm
Hopefully someone can give me an idea of what is happening here.

I have and RX-a710

Satellite receiver is not HD and only output is Composite video, have connected to AV 5 video, left, and right.

Also connected is Sony BluRay on HDMI 1
Apple TV on HDMI 2

Video is output by HDMI to TV with ARC enabled.

Everything seems to be controlled properly.

The problem I am having is:
Yamaha on Stanby, TV and all other components off/standby.
On Yamaha Remote I press the Scene "TV" button.
TV powers up, receiver powers up, AV 5 is selected
Everything works, video and audio is all output correctly, then about 3 seconds later the receiver switches to AV 4 on its own, video still outputs correctly but I lose audio.

If I press the Scene TV button on remote again everything goes back to correct settings and will remain.

Nothing is connected to AV 4,

Anyone have any ideas as to why this might be happening?
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post #1120 of 2580
5/6/12 at 2:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

Regarding the Xbox 360 and audio output..

Almost all 360 games use native DD output for audio.. while PCM can be output, there is no reason to do what... the game engines use PCM for audio internally (sometimes at mixed rates, etc.) but the consoles both support real time encoding into DD output using the audio API's built in..

Only the Xbox 360 supports Digital Digital encoding in all titles, it's part of the console's firmware. On the PlayStation 3 game developers have to licence it and incorporate the encoder into their software on a game by game basis.

Quote:


DD is the proper output for the Xbox 360.. even when using HDMI.

There is no loss of audio quality using DD output... as I said, there are relatively few "native" PCM titles (I only recall seeing one since the consoles launched (it was a PS3 title, IIRC.)

No, this is completely wrong. All games on both the Xbox 360 and the PlayStation 3 support PCM as this is the format all games generate internally. If you force these consoles to use Dobly Digital instead then there will be a loss of audio quality when the PCM data is lossy compressed into Dolby Digital.

Never ever use Dolby Digital over HDMI unless you're given no alternative. Both mulitchannel PCM and the lossless DTS HD and Dolby TrueHD formats are superior to Dolby Digtal as the carry sound with no loss of audio quality.
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post #1121 of 2580
5/6/12 at 3:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

I've used Yamaha receivers with YPAO since 2004 and long ago made my peace with it. I would prefer for it to know to set my speakers to small and accurately setup my sub on its own. Fortunately, manually setting my speaker size and crossover frequency is no big deal and, as you noted, manually setting up a sub is pretty easy, too, if you have an SPL meter.

Could this be a case of just pressing the info button for the display to show what you want? Just a thought and a known issue for many of us.
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post #1122 of 2580
5/6/12 at 3:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross Ridge View Post


Assuming you're using HDMI, this is what you want when playing games. PCM is a raw uncompressed format, Dolby Digital a lossy compressed format. If you configure your Xbox 360 to use Dolby Digital instead of multichannel PCM then it has to take the raw uncompressed multichannel PCM data the game generates and then compress it using Dobly Digital. Your receiver then has to uncompress the bitstream and the resulting PCM data isn't exactly the same because Dolby Digtal is lossy.

You only want to use Dolby Digital with games when your audio connection is through an optical SPDIF cable. Unlike HDMI it doesn't have enough bandwith support raw multichannel PCM, so you need to use compressed formats like Dolby Digital to support more than two channels.

While it's not clear to me what your problem with Blu-Ray is exactly, it might be similar. You do not want to use Dolby Digital if you can possibly avoid it. DTS HD Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD are superior lossless compressed formats, and decode to the same raw PCM data that was originally compressed. It doesn't usually matter if your receiver or Blu-Ray player does this decoding, as it results in the same PCM data. If you're seeing PCM when playing Blu-Rays this shouldn't be a problem, it just means your Blu-Ray player is doing the decoding.

Thanks so much for the info. I don't have a problem with the blu-ray exactly but I just thought it was strange that the avr was displaying something slightly different than the normal dts hd mstr. It seems that is how the avr will configure for 7.1 audio, or at least have sound from all 7 speakers, probly not 7 discrete channels for the games. Thank you again.
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post #1123 of 2580
5/6/12 at 4:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GiTcHaSuM View Post

Thanks so much for the info. I don't have a problem with the blu-ray exactly but I just thought it was strange that the avr was displaying something slightly different than the normal dts hd mstr. It seems that is how the avr will configure for 7.1 audio, or at least have sound from all 7 speakers, probly not 7 discrete channels for the games. Thank you again.

One thing I just noticed is that your not actually using a standard 7.1 setup. All the multichannel formats expect that your 6th and 7th speakers are the left and right surround back speakers. What you've really got is a 5.1 + presence configuration. The receiver knows this and will either downmix 7.1 to 5.1 or try to virtualize 7.1 on 5.1 speakers, then it will generate the presence channels. Note that presence channels are not supported as discrete channels in any multichannel format supported by the receiver, so the receiver needs to create them as a DSP effect.

For games at least I think you would be better off using a standard 7.1 speaker setup as that should give you better positional audio. For movies, it's more a matter of preference I think. Note that if you have the option adding another pair speakers for a total of nine then you can have both, just not at the same time. The receiver can switch between surround back and presence speakers depending on whether you've enabled a DSP mode that uses presence speakers.
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post #1124 of 2580
5/6/12 at 4:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post


A couple of comments:

If using the PS3 for BR's.. only the newer Slim models will bitstream the lossless codecs... the older models do not (and should be set for PCM output.)

Also, if you have a new AVR, you need to re-run the audio setup on the PS3.... it queries whatever HDMI device is attached to it and finds out what formats the device can handle.. if you had it hooked up to another AVR, you should always re-run the audio setup.

Regarding the Xbox 360 and audio output..

Almost all 360 games use native DD output for audio.. while PCM can be output, there is no reason to do what... the game engines use PCM for audio internally (sometimes at mixed rates, etc.) but the consoles both support real time encoding into DD output using the audio API's built in..

The same goes for the PS3...

Unlike the HD-DVD players of long ago, the PCM/TrueHD/DTS-HD to lossy conversion isn't the case here...

See above...

DD is the proper output for the Xbox 360.. even when using HDMI.

There is no loss of audio quality using DD output... as I said, there are relatively few "native" PCM titles (I only recall seeing one since the consoles launched (it was a PS3 title, IIRC.)

Thank you for the info. I just thought it was odd that the display said pcm when in the 360 audio settings that is not an option. There are two dolby digital options along with another that I can't recall at the moment.
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post #1125 of 2580
5/6/12 at 4:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross Ridge View Post

No, this is completely wrong. All games on both the Xbox 360 and the PlayStation 3 support PCM as this is the format all games generate internally. If you force these consoles to use Dobly Digital instead then there will be a loss of audio quality when the PCM data is lossy compressed into Dolby Digital.

Never ever use Dolby Digital over HDMI unless you're given no alternative. Both mulitchannel PCM and the lossless DTS HD and Dolby TrueHD formats are superior to Dolby Digtal as the carry sound with no loss of audio quality.

No.. that is completely wrong.

Ross.. I dusted off my game console audio notes (yes I keep links, notes, old posts, etc, for just this reason. these conversations keep coming up, and I'm not getting any younger. )

Any game made for the 360 is required to support DD 5.1.

More importantly, however, the Xbox 360 doe not support more than 2 channel PCM, regardless of SPDIF or HDMI...

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/906660

Quote:


Supported audio formats
The Xbox 360 console supports the following analog and digital audio formats:
Analog Stereo
Digital Stereo PCM, 16-bit, 48 kilohertz (kHz)
Dolby Digital® 5.1 channel digital audio, 48kHz
WMA Pro
Playback of DTS (Digital Theatre Surround) 5.1 media (such as movies) by passing the encoded DTS digital bitstream to an external DTS decoder

My understanding on the PS3 is that the PCM output is decoded Dolby Digital or DTS depending on how it is encoded for 95% of the titles released (see my PCM caveat below)..

I think all the Sony in house "published" titles are 5.1 or 7.1 PCM, as are a couple of premiere developers... (I remember that "Resistance" had a PCM option, as did "Uncharted 2..") otherwise, it's DD or DTS.

Why would there be an audio selection menu in game to pick your output on those titles (i.e. to your comment that they are all LPCM?)

My understanding is if you have the PS3 sending PCM on most titles, it is decoding the DD and outputting as 5.1, not the engine output pre encoder..

A friend of mine spent the last 10 years as the head of audio for EA Black Box... I'll get some more clarification...

I stand by my comment... DD is the way to go for the 360.. bitstream or PCM on the PS3 should get you the same audio quality as well for most games (unless they have PCM as an option.)

I also looked back an one of my comments I posted, after re-reading it, and knowing what I wanted to say, is erroneous..

PCM is not the internal audio format used in games.. of course all of the audio starts off as PCM (it's the foundation of digital recording), and which was my point, but must be compressed (I believe that the Xbox uses a proprietary format called XNA) to be used in the engines.. neither console has the space (either on disc or RAM,) bandwidth or headroom to handle 256 channels of PCM in real time, mix it, add reverbs, etc.....
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post #1126 of 2580
5/6/12 at 5:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GiTcHaSuM View Post

Thank you for the info. I just thought it was odd that the display said pcm when in the 360 audio settings that is not an option. There are two dolby digital options along with another that I can't recall at the moment.

Unfortunately I assumed the Xbox 360 was capable of multichannel PCM audio over HDMI. As it turns out, Microsoft inexplicitly crippled their console and didn't implement this simple and basic feature that every other device capable of outputting multichannel audio over HDMI supports.

With the Xbox 360 you're essentially stuck in the situtation where Dolby Digital is your only option. I'm sorry for the confusion. If you're seeing PCM displayed on your receiver when using your Xbox 360 then you're probably only getting stereo PCM and you definately don't want that. (You can check the number of PCM channels by using [On Screen] -> Information -> Audio Signal.)

Note that plain Dolby Digital (no EX, + or anything) as implemented on the Xbox 360 is at most a 5.1 channel format. There's no advantage to using surround back speakers with Xbox 360 games as I suggested previously.
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post #1127 of 2580
5/6/12 at 5:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross Ridge View Post

Unfortunately I assumed the Xbox 360 was capable of multichannel PCM audio over HDMI. As it turns out, Microsoft inexplicitly crippled their console and didn't implement this simple and basic feature that every other device capable of outputting multichannel audio over HDMI supports.

Nothing inexplicable about it... every digital AVR made since the launch of the 360 handles 5.1 DD, and since the originak XBox 360 didn't have HDMI it seems like a sound design decision. No pun intended.

Also, as per my other response to you... all audio is compassed (i.e. lossy) to work inside the game engine...

While it would be nice to have the option to grab the audio before the lossy encoding to DD 5.1, the amount of extra effort to do so for little or no gain in audio quality must've been discussed.


Quote:


Note that plain Dolby Digital (no EX, + or anything) as implemented on the Xbox 360 is at most a 5.1 channel format. There's no advantage to using surround back speakers with Xbox 360 games as I suggested previously.

Ross.. matrix decoding of a 5.1 will still give you an improved surround presence..
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post #1128 of 2580
5/6/12 at 5:20pm
You aren't going to pick up on audio quality loss on your 360 when it goes to Dolby digital. Hell I doubt any gamer is going to pick out so ever slight loss of audio quality, especially with how action packed games are.
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post #1129 of 2580
5/6/12 at 6:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

Any game made for the 360 is required to support DD 5.1.

Any game on the Xbox 360 supports Dolby Digital whether it wants to or not. It's implemented by the Xbox 360 system software.

Quote:


More importantly, however, the Xbox 360 doe not support more than 2 channel PCM, regardless of SPDIF or HDMI...

Yes, my mistake. I assumed that the Xbox 360 was reasonably designed.

Quote:


My understanding on the PS3 is that the PCM output is decoded Dolby Digital or DTS depending on how it is encoded for 95% of the titles released (see my PCM caveat below)..

Supporting Dolby Digital and/or DTS in PlayStation 3 game requires that developer sign a licence agreement with Dobly or DTS respectively, pay licencing fees, and then incorporate the Dolby Digital Live and/or DTS Interactive encoders into their own product.

Since multichannel PCM is non-proprietary, it doesn't require a licence agreement or fees. It doesn't require any encoder software since its a raw undecoded format. If PlayStation 3 game supports any sort of multichannel format then there is no reason for it not support multichannel PCM since the game needs to generate multichannel PCM as input to the Dolby Digital Live and DTS Interactive encoders.

Quote:


Why would there be an audio selection menu in game to pick your output on those titles (i.e. to your comment that they are all LPCM?)

No option in game necessary. The game knows which formats that the PlayStation 3 has been configured to use and can pick a format accordingly. When a multichannel PCM format is available, as it is normally when using HDMI, then the game will normally use multichannel PCM as that's the best format available.

Quote:


PCM is not the internal audio format used in games.. of course all of the audio starts off as PCM (it's the foundation of digital recording), and which was my point, but must be compressed (I believe that the Xbox uses a proprietary format called XNA) to be used in the engines.. neither console has the space (either on disc or RAM,) bandwidth or headroom to handle 256 channels of PCM in real time, mix it, add reverbs, etc.....

Games uses a variety of formats for storing audio on disc and in memory, XMA, MP3, OGG, ADPCM, and even raw PCM. It's not that big for simple sound effects. These are all decoded to PCM, mixed as PCM, and processed as PCM. You cannot mix compressed XMA audio directly, it has to be done as PCM. You can not add reverb to MP3 directly, it has to be done as PCM. All this decoding, mixing and processing takes up an insignicant amount of processing power even with a large number of source channels. The impact of audio on the performance games hasn't been an issue for a long time.

The result of all this mixing and processing is a raw multichannel PCM stream. On the Xbox 360 this then gets fed to the Dolby Digital encoder that's part of the firmware or downmixed to stereo. On the PlayStation 3 this PCM stream is either output as is over HDMI, encoded by the game into Dobly Digital or DTS, or downmixed into a supported format.

The only exception to this I can see might be when the game is playing movie with a pre-encoded Dolby Digital or DTS soundtrack. In that case the game has no other option than to bitstream the soundtrack as is (or fallback on the stereo track). I'm not sure how often this happens if it all.
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post #1130 of 2580
5/6/12 at 6:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlDM View Post

Hopefully someone can give me an idea of what is happening here.

I have and RX-a710

Satellite receiver is not HD and only output is Composite video, have connected to AV 5 video, left, and right.

Also connected is Sony BluRay on HDMI 1
Apple TV on HDMI 2

Video is output by HDMI to TV with ARC enabled.

Everything seems to be controlled properly.

The problem I am having is:
Yamaha on Stanby, TV and all other components off/standby.
On Yamaha Remote I press the Scene "TV" button.
TV powers up, receiver powers up, AV 5 is selected
Everything works, video and audio is all output correctly, then about 3 seconds later the receiver switches to AV 4 on its own, video still outputs correctly but I lose audio.

If I press the Scene TV button on remote again everything goes back to correct settings and will remain.

Nothing is connected to AV 4,

Anyone have any ideas as to why this might be happening?

Since digging further, it seems to me that the Samsung is the culprit.

I'm guessing that the TV is actually changing the audio input on the receiver.

If I turn off the HDMI control or otherwise remove the TV from the equation it doesn't happen.

Unless someone here can point me in the right direction it is probably best to seek answers on the appropriate Samsung thread.
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post #1131 of 2580
5/6/12 at 6:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomous View Post

You aren't going to pick up on audio quality loss on your 360 when it goes to Dolby digital. Hell I doubt any gamer is going to pick out so ever slight loss of audio quality, especially with how action packed games are.

This is probably true, but these sort of questions don't happen because anyone actually notices a change in audio quality. All that happens is that that they see PCM on the front panel an assume the they're not getting the highest quality possible. This isn't true, except in the screwed up case of the Xbox 360.

If people suddenly didn't care about audio quality difference they can't actually hear then posting volume in this forum would drop dramatically.
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post #1132 of 2580
5/7/12 at 8:46pm
Many thanks for your reply.

Apologies for the silly question in advance, however what "Wireless bridge" would you recommend for basic home use such as this ?

Thanks,

Lach
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post #1133 of 2580
5/8/12 at 5:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncarty97 View Post

Hello everyone! I'm not particularly experienced with AVR's, so I'm hoping some of you hear can help me make the right decision on my purchase. I'm considering the RX-A810. I've looked through the manual to see if this will do what I want, and while I think so, I am not 100% sure.

Here is what I am trying to accomplish:

We have an HTPC in our living room connected to an Epson 8350 projector. I have an older Yahama (RX-1400 I think) that is connected via an optical link. Our bedroom shares a wall with the living room and we had a Samsung HD2300 TV in there. I tried using an XBox as an extender, but since you can't play ripped DVD's, Blu Rays, etc., it didn't meet our needs.

My HPTC has two HDMI outs on it, so I tried hooking one to the projector and one to the Samsung, but discovered that Windows won't put out audio on both HDMI and optical at the same time, so when the Samsung was plugged in, no audio was going out to the AVR. I briefly considered writing some script that could used to switch the audio output, but I'd like to keep this as simple as possible. A switch wouldn't work as I'd need some way to trigger it from the other room which would mean running another cable, plus just another thing to go wrong at some point.

So, I decided that an AVR that could do dual HDMI outputs is probably the way to go and I've been jumping around trying to find one that won't break the bank and can put out the same thing on two HDMI outputs simultaneously. One kicker though is that I'd like it to be able to pass through HDMI when it is off, so if we want to watch TV in the bedroom, there won't be sound coming out in the living room as well (unless we actually want to watch both at the same time, which may happen on occasion).

The only other things I really want to do with it is hook up my Wii (I can do either the component or composite connections) and have it go out over the HDMI, and have some type of dynamic range control (Wife is REALLY tired of having to crank it to hear dialogue, then getting our ears blown out when an explosion or something happens). On the DRC, I've used the setup function on my existing Yamaha several times to make sure everything is set properly and my speakers (Paradigms) all seem to be working fine, so not sure why we have this problem so bad other than possibly the receiver being so bad.

So will the 810 fit my needs or does anyone have any better recommendations? I'd like to keep the budget no more than what the 810 goes for, but there is a little bit of flexibility.

Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks

So anyone got any insight here? I'd like to get something soon, but I just can't seem to find the answer to any of my questions.
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post #1134 of 2580
5/8/12 at 11:43am
ncarty, NVIDIA video cards allow two (2) audio streams over HDMI at the same time. However, they are separate audio devices and you will need to tell your player to output to one or the other (this could probably be semi-automated). You can set both audio devices as "default" and if you disconnect or disable one HDMI output, it will automatically set the default audio device to the one that is still connected. This method could still work on an ATI card if you disable one display ahead of time.

The above probably isn't what you have in mind - in that case, you may consider using optical only for the TV, but using a cheap audio card just for the optical, or optical from the motherboard's onboard sound.

I have a Yamaha RX-A2010 and it has dual HDMI outputs. It is not a matrix switch unfortunately, but at least you can switch from one to another (or both output at same time from same source). It also has an HDMI passthrough mode when it is in standby (off). It works.

I still get strange handshake issues when I wake the HTPC from sleep - it will get confused and see the AVR for a couple of seconds, then suddenly see my display for a couple of seconds, and then back again repeatedly. My only way out of this loop is to switch to an unused HDMI input (like AV4), then tell the HTPC to enable the display on it, then switch back to the normal HDMI input. Yeah, this is complicated - I think it is because I have a dual-monitor setup on my PC.
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post #1135 of 2580
5/8/12 at 12:04pm
Thanks for replying!
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxleung View Post

ncarty, NVIDIA video cards allow two (2) audio streams over HDMI at the same time. However, they are separate audio devices and you will need to tell your player to output to one or the other (this could probably be semi-automated). You can set both audio devices as "default" and if you disconnect or disable one HDMI output, it will automatically set the default audio device to the one that is still connected. This method could still work on an ATI card if you disable one display ahead of time.

I'm a bit confused by that. I do have an nVidia card. It has one HDMI, one DVI (though I have gotten sound over the DVI via a DVI-HDMI cable). You say it allows two audio streams at the same time, but then I have to set my player to output to one or the other? So basically the generic windows sounds would go out over both at the same time, but TotalMediaTheater would only put it out over 1?

Quote:


The above probably isn't what you have in mind - in that case, you may consider using optical only for the TV, but using a cheap audio card just for the optical, or optical from the motherboard's onboard sound.

Unfortunately that doesn't work as I have no way to get an optical cable to the second TV in the bedroom. Right now, I have optical to my current AVR, but since Windows won't put out over both optical and HDMI at the same time, I have to manually switch it from one to the other depending on which room I am watching in.

Quote:


I have a Yamaha RX-A2010 and it has dual HDMI outputs. It is not a matrix switch unfortunately, but at least you can switch from one to another (or both output at same time from same source). It also has an HDMI passthrough mode when it is in standby (off). It works.

I assume that the A810 has the same functionality. I don't really need a matrix switch thankfully.

Quote:


I still get strange handshake issues when I wake the HTPC from sleep - it will get confused and see the AVR for a couple of seconds, then suddenly see my display for a couple of seconds, and then back again repeatedly. My only way out of this loop is to switch to an unused HDMI input (like AV4), then tell the HTPC to enable the display on it, then switch back to the normal HDMI input. Yeah, this is complicated - I think it is because I have a dual-monitor setup on my PC.


My HTPC never sleeps, so hopefully that won't be an issue.

Thanks for your insight!
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post #1136 of 2580
5/8/12 at 1:03pm
I'm about to order the RX-A2010 and plan on running all 3 zones. Zone 1 will be my 5.1 setup in the living room, Zone 2 will be a 2 channel setup in my bedroom and a 2 channel setup in my bathroom, and Zone 3 will be a 2 channel setup on my porch.

My question is regarding Zone 2. Will I be able to run 4 8ohm speakers in two channel config just by piggybacking the leads or am I looking for trouble. The speakers are Audiosource AC6C and AC8W, one pair each. Since my master bedroom and bath are connected I didn't want to waste a zone splitting the two up.
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post #1137 of 2580
5/8/12 at 1:46pm
Has anyone noticed that Yamaha just released their new 2012 mid-line receives which include AirPlay and some other features? Any idea when the 2012 Aventage receivers will be out?
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post #1138 of 2580
5/8/12 at 1:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockjeep44 View Post

My question is regarding Zone 2. Will I be able to run 4 8ohm speakers in two channel config just by piggybacking the leads or am I looking for trouble. The speakers are Audiosource AC6C and AC8W, one pair each. Since my master bedroom and bath are connected I didn't want to waste a zone splitting the two up.

You should consider using an impendence matching speaker selector. That'll solve the impedence problem of connecting two speakers to the same terminals and give you the option of only having one of the two sets of speakers active.

I suspect that the RX-A1020, RX-A2020 and RX-A3020 will be announced some time around August. They've already shown up the CSA's certification list so they're definitely coming.
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post #1139 of 2580
5/8/12 at 2:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

I have had an RX-V3900 for nearly four years and love it. Unfortunately, though, I have run out of HDMI inputs so am considering buying an Aventage unit, probably the A2010.

Well glade to hear...guess I need to talk to you about what kind of deal we need to make for that 3900 making it's way up to Tulsa
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post #1140 of 2580
5/8/12 at 2:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncarty97 View Post

I'm a bit confused by that. I do have an nVidia card. It has one HDMI, one DVI (though I have gotten sound over the DVI via a DVI-HDMI cable). You say it allows two audio streams at the same time, but then I have to set my player to output to one or the other? So basically the generic windows sounds would go out over both at the same time, but TotalMediaTheater would only put it out over 1?

I don't think that's what maxleung was saying. I think he meant you can connect them both at the same time, but you will need to switch back & forth between them in the Sound Settings. This is always how it has functioned for me even with prior versions of windows. In the "old" days it was difficult to even install multiple sound cards due to IRQ/DMA conflicts. I'm not sure if that's still the reason why you can't output sound simultaneously even if Windows can now manage device I/O assignment when using multiple sound devices, but I'd guess it still poses a problem.
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