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The "official" Yamaha AVENTAGE RX-A710/810/1010/2010/3010 thread - Page 51

post #1501 of 2855
While you were not able to reproduce exactly what I am seeing, it is interesting nonetheless and may indicate a systemic problem with these receivers.

I visited my local Magnolia store today to see if I could replicate the two problems I am having with my A2010. Well, they didn't have an A2010 connected to a display for me to tinker with but they did have an A3010 in a showroom. I went right away to see if it had the front panel display problem. I reduced the dimmer one notch from max and enabled Pure Direct. I did not see any residual image on any part of the display. Just for the heck of it, I continued to reduce the display brightness and it was still all dark in Pure Direct. No conclusion on this except to say maybe it is a production run problem. Only one other person here reported the same as me. I would like to hear from more on this matter also.

When testing the DTS-HD MA dropout, there was no problem with their system. They had a basic Panasonic Blu-Ray player and I used a Fox BD title with DTS-HD MA track selected. Unfortunately, I did not see multiple speaker indicators on the AVR front display. I tried changing the decoder mode but must have had a brain fart because it kept reporting straight with only two speaker indicators. It is possible their Blu-Ray player wasn't Bitstreaming or outputting LPCM. I also didn't have the correct remote control in order to toggle the "info" on the front display. End of story here is -- an inconclusive test. I need to find another store to visit perhaps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RTROSE View Post

Well I have done some testing and have had mixed results, I picked four discs with DTS-HS MA sound tracks, 2012, Avatar, Taken, and Wolverine. With Avatar and 2012 I get video and approximately two seconds later I get audio. With the other two I get audio first and then one to two seconds later get the video. So I can't replicate what you are getting and I'm getting other issues as well. Go figure. I have the Oppo 93 running to the 1010 and then to my Epson 8350 projector. I also changed the audio settings from LPCM, to Bitstream, and Auto with the same results. Sooooo.....that what I have to bring to the table. Not very helpful to you I don't think.
Regards,
RTROSE

Edited by jdryyz - 6/24/12 at 8:33pm
post #1502 of 2855
Does the problem occur with the player's output set to PCM? I can't test this on my A1000 (similar enough to the A1010 to otherwise try) because my PS3 is a "fat" model that does not bitstream lossless codecs. With PCM, I have no sound issues (I tried after reading recent posts in this thread). As there is no sound quality difference between decoding lossless in the player or the receiver, would not setting output to PCM resolve the problem? One thing I did notice some months back at a friend's house (another A1000 with a player that can bitstream lossless) is that if you want to apply additional processing (like the STANDARD MOVIE setting--a setting I often use) to DTS lossless, it reads (according to the onscreen info) the core lossy DTS and then applies the STANDARD (or other) processing. On PCM, though, it applies the processing on the lossless, decoded PCM signal (the audibility of this is, of course, open to debate, but I don't want to get sidetracked here). So, it would appear the receiver can either decode lossless bitstreams and NOT apply additional processing to the audio (not without reverting to the lossy core that is also part of the bitstream, if I understand correctly) OR it can take the lossless PCM (already decoded in the player) and apply additional processing to the audio without converting the PCM to a lossy signal. This suggests a limitation in DSP power. I've not tried all the possible permutations but I think some things work on all signals (YPAO EQ settings, if on) whereas some only work on lossy bitstreams. The only lossless setting that appears to allow any and all further audio processing is PCM.

This is my understanding of how things work. I'm sure someone far more expert can correct or supplement what I've proposed above (for which I'd be grateful as I'm always curious about how such things work).
post #1503 of 2855
I tried setting my primary player to use PCM instead of Bitstreaming. It made no difference in my case. I did see the PCM indicator on the A2010's front panel so I know the change took place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovation View Post

Does the problem occur with the player's output set to PCM? I can't test this on my A1000 (similar enough to the A1010 to otherwise try) because my PS3 is a "fat" model that does not bitstream lossless codecs. With PCM, I have no sound issues (I tried after reading recent posts in this thread). As there is no sound quality difference between decoding lossless in the player or the receiver, would not setting output to PCM resolve the problem? One thing I did notice some months back at a friend's house (another A1000 with a player that can bitstream lossless) is that if you want to apply additional processing (like the STANDARD MOVIE setting--a setting I often use) to DTS lossless, it reads (according to the onscreen info) the core lossy DTS and then applies the STANDARD (or other) processing. On PCM, though, it applies the processing on the lossless, decoded PCM signal (the audibility of this is, of course, open to debate, but I don't want to get sidetracked here). So, it would appear the receiver can either decode lossless bitstreams and NOT apply additional processing to the audio (not without reverting to the lossy core that is also part of the bitstream, if I understand correctly) OR it can take the lossless PCM (already decoded in the player) and apply additional processing to the audio without converting the PCM to a lossy signal. This suggests a limitation in DSP power. I've not tried all the possible permutations but I think some things work on all signals (YPAO EQ settings, if on) whereas some only work on lossy bitstreams. The only lossless setting that appears to allow any and all further audio processing is PCM.
This is my understanding of things work. I'm sure someone far more expert can correct or supplement what I've proposed above (for which I'd be grateful as I'm always curious about how such things work).
post #1504 of 2855
In that case, there might be a fault with your AVR, but I would hesitate to say it is generalized across all units (though I have no idea how a fault could be so specific in a DSP decoder).
post #1505 of 2855
Considering the display panel problem as well, maybe I did just get a bad unit.

But, since I read about other display problems in addition to my own, I was thinking it could be more widespread and didn't want to go the replacement route.

I will wait until the new models arrive and see what luck I have with one of those.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovation View Post

In that case, there might be a fault with your AVR, but I would hesitate to say it is generalized across all units (though I have no idea how a fault could be so specific in a DSP decoder).
post #1506 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdryyz View Post

Considering the display panel problem as well, maybe I did just get a bad unit.
But, since I read about other display problems in addition to my own, I was thinking it could be more widespread and didn't want to go the replacement route.
I will wait until the new models arrive and see what luck I have with one of those.

I'm just wondering here: so if you wait until the new models arrive, are you going to be able to return your A2010?
post #1507 of 2855
My question is on the Yamaha 2010.

My question here is what Sound Effect settings on the Yamaha 2010 are recommended for playing a large Classical Music collection on iTunes in Apple 256 bit AAC from Bach to Wagner being played on all speakers in a 5.1 speaker set up?

There are now 23 Sound Effects and recommendations for playing Classical Music would be great to get here.

I have the actual CD's.

The music is also encoded on an iMac in 256 bit AAC Stereo and partly on a new iPad. There is a new Airport Express for AirPlay.

Thanks for keeping this forum.
post #1508 of 2855
Actually, I have already started the process to return my A2010. Yep, that means no home theater for a while.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cr136124 View Post

I'm just wondering here: so if you wait until the new models arrive, are you going to be able to return your A2010?
post #1509 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdryyz View Post

Actually, I have already started the process to return my A2010. Yep, that means no home theater for a while.

Oh man, that sucks!

But at least you are not going to be dealing with a bad unit anymore. So, are you going to wait until the new models are available? Or, are you going to pull the trigger on a different brand?
post #1510 of 2855
I believe I will be sticking with Yamaha and hope their new models are trouble free.

I did check some other brands. The latest offerings from Pioneer's Elite series look good, but I'd have to pay another $1000 to get all of the capability I have with the Yamaha. And, then I'd have to research a lot more to be sure there are no compatibility concerns with my existing components. That's just not a road I want to go down right now.

I already know the Yamaha's work well with what I have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cr136124 View Post

Oh man, that sucks!
But at least you are not going to be dealing with a bad unit anymore. So, are you going to wait until the new models are available? Or, are you going to pull the trigger on a different brand?
post #1511 of 2855
This is a matter of opinion, of course. And my opinion when it comes to music is always stick close to the source-- if you begin with stereo, playback in stereo with the highest quality possible.

Although every Yamaha I've owned for the last 12 years has been capable of creating soundfields, I have honestly not bothered with them beyond curiosity.

If you do want to use soundfields, it is best that you experiment on your own and choose whatever you believe sounds good.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Deafwonder View Post

My question is on the Yamaha 2010.
My question here is what Sound Effect settings on the Yamaha 2010 are recommended for playing a large Classical Music collection on iTunes in Apple 256 bit AAC from Bach to Wagner being played on all speakers in a 5.1 speaker set up?
There are now 23 Sound Effects and recommendations for playing Classical Music would be great to get here.
I have the actual CD's.
The music is also encoded on an iMac in 256 bit AAC Stereo and partly on a new iPad. There is a new Airport Express for AirPlay.
Thanks for keeping this forum.

Edited by jdryyz - 6/26/12 at 12:41pm
post #1512 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdryyz View Post

I believe I will be sticking with Yamaha and hope their new models are trouble free.
I did check some other brands. The latest offerings from Pioneer's Elite series look good, but I'd have to pay another $1000 to get all of the capability I have with the Yamaha. And, then I'd have to research a lot more to be sure there are no compatibility concerns with my existing components. That's just not a road I want to go down right now.
I already know the Yamaha's work well with what I have.

Valid point. Oh well, I hope you a backup receiver until buy one of the new models.
post #1513 of 2855
I still have my RX-V3800 but I wouldn't want to reconnect everything to it if I will just be undoing it again in a few weeks. smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by cr136124 View Post

Valid point. Oh well, I hope you a backup receiver until buy one of the new models.
post #1514 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdryyz View Post

I still have my RX-V3800 but I wouldn't want to reconnect everything to it if I will just be undoing it again in a few weeks. smile.gif

I'm with you on that one. But, last thing I heard is that new models will be available for the public until end of August. So, it is actually a two months wait until you can buy a new unit. So, by knowing that I'LLC be more willing to hook everything to my old receiver.....but that is just me ;o)
post #1515 of 2855
My sales guy informed me that he expects the A2020 model to arrive at the beginning of August and the A3020 will arrive at the beginning of Sept. They already have the A720 and A820 in stock and should be getting the A1020 soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cr136124 View Post

I'm with you on that one. But, last thing I heard is that new models will be available for the public until end of August. So, it is actually a two months wait until you can buy a new unit. So, by knowing that I'LLC be more willing to hook everything to my old receiver.....but that is just me ;o)
post #1516 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdryyz View Post

My sales guy informed me that he expects the A2020 model to arrive at the beginning of August and the A3020 will arrive at the beginning of Sept. They already have the A720 and A820 in stock and should be getting the A1020 soon.

Nice to see your sales guy is keeping you informed. Hopefully this time your AV receiver will be in perfect condition and you will not have issues with it. I'm also positive about the first test that you are going to run as soon the new unit arrives.........hint, it involves the Fox intro........LOL.
post #1517 of 2855
That is correct! In fact I will make a special point by connecting only what is necessary to test the audio problem....just in case there is anything weird happening with the rest of the gear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cr136124 View Post

Nice to see your sales guy is keeping you informed. Hopefully this time your AV receiver will be in perfect condition and you will not have issues with it. I'm also positive about the first test that you are going to run as soon the new unit arrives.........hint, it involves the Fox intro........LOL.
post #1518 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdryyz View Post

That is correct! In fact I will make a special point by connecting only what is necessary to test the audio problem....just in case there is anything weird happening with the rest of the gear.

Sounds like a plan!

Hopefully the new receiver will treat you well........wink.gif
post #1519 of 2855
Thanks!

I will say this-- If I had to give up your HT setup for a month, I would find that difficult!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cr136124 View Post

Sounds like a plan!
Hopefully the new receiver will treat you well........wink.gif
post #1520 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdryyz View Post

Thanks!
I will say this-- If I had to give up your HT setup for a month, I would find that difficult!

I think that applies to anyone posting here. Tell them to give up on their systems for a month and you will have a bunch of sad pandas in here..........wink.gif
post #1521 of 2855
Does anyone know if there is a way to use the Android app as an alarm function? I've got my bedroom setup as one of the zones on my 2010 and was thinking it would be cool to have it wake me up in the mornings. A whole lot better than a clock radio with ipod dock.
post #1522 of 2855
Since I do not have an AVR in the loop at this time, I decided to connect my Oppo BDP-93 directly to my Samsung LN55A950 TV.

HDMI 1 out from the Oppo is going to HDMI 1 on the TV.

I then insert a Fox Blu-Ray disc and watch as the main title begins to play.

Guess what? I am still experiencing the 1-2 sec. audio dropout at the beginning of playback. No settings changes related to audio or HDMI in the player make a difference.

Not only that, but in this case, it doesn't just involve DTS-HD MA soundtracks. Now it happens with content pulled from my DLNA server, whether it has a DTS soundtrack or not. Interesting, but not too surprising since the Oppo's HDMI 1 output is more sophisticated and my TV is an older model.

Switching over to the Oppo's HDMI 2 output solves the problem. But, of course, this is not the preferred way to connect the player since you lose the video processing on SD.

I also took this opportunity to swap HDMI cables again just to see if that would help. I went from a 3' "high speed" cable to the 6' cable that came with the Oppo. No difference!

So then I decide to hook up my Sony BDP-S550 directly to the TV and perform the same test. No audio dropout!

Conclusion? Even if I get the latest Yamaha AVR, I will likely see the same audio problem when using the BDP-93.

I want to stress, however, that when I had the RX-A2010, I experienced this same audio problem on ALL of my players, not just the Oppo.


Sigh. I dunno if I will ever have a setup that is satisfactory now. I still plan to get the RX-A2020 when it is available. I will just use the Sony BD player for my initial test.

It is still possible that I could use the BDP-93 via HDMI 2 with the new Yamaha. I will just have to use the Yamaha's video processing instead. The only problem here is I do not necessarily want to apply this across the board to all of my other video sources. I'm not even sure if they all have a "source direct" mode.
Edited by jdryyz - 7/1/12 at 9:30am
post #1523 of 2855
@jdryyz

So, at the end the issue is at the Oppo BDP-93 end. Right?

Are you planning to contact Oppo to see what the say about it?
post #1524 of 2855
@jdryyz

FWIW, I'm using an Oppo BDP-93 with my A2010 (firmware 1.08). I've played with both Oppo HDMi outputs at various times without the issue you experienced once things were dialed in. I would question if the Oppo or your television is defective and causing an issue when linked via multiple HDMI connections as it sounds like a handshake issue. As a side note, i did experience some dropouts when I first connected the Oppo to the Yamaha but all of the issues were resolved when I swapped out and used specific "high speed" (HDMI 1.4) cables. I'm at a loss why this made a difference with non 3D content.

IMHO, I find the HDQ Vida video processor in the A2010 so much better than the Qdeo in the Oppo that I am now intentionally using HDMI 2 "source direct" on the Oppo. In fact, I am so pleased with the A2010 that I was able to remove a dedicated DVDO Edge VP from my setup. YMMV.
post #1525 of 2855
No, actually. As I stated above, the problem was happening with all three of my players when going through the AVR.

Now, it appears the Oppo BDP-93 is showing a similar behavior going directly to my TV, but it isn't quite the same thing.

I contacted Oppo very early on when I was having even more HDMI problems with my RX-V3800. It is hard to place blame on either side really. My goal to use one of the most sophisticated BD players on the market with one of the first HDMI receivers was bound to cause problems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cr136124 View Post

@jdryyz
So, at the end the issue is at the Oppo BDP-93 end. Right?
Are you planning to contact Oppo to see what the say about it?

Edited by jdryyz - 7/1/12 at 10:14am
post #1526 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdryyz View Post

No, actually. As I stated above, the problem was happening with all three of my players when going through the AVR.
Now, it appears the Oppo BDP-93 has is showing a similar behavior going directly to my TV, but it isn't quite the same thing.
I contacted Oppo very early on when I was having even more HDMI problems with my RX-V3800. It is hard to place blame on either side really. My goal to use one of the most sophisticated BD players on the market with one of the first HDMI receivers was bound to cause problems.

Ok. Thanks for the clarification.
post #1527 of 2855
I'm stumped as well. I wouldn't go so far as to use the word "defective" when describing any device in the HDMI chain. More likely, just incompatible.

I can also demonstrate that by using the reduced processing output from the Oppo, the TV will play nice with it.

With all the different cables I've tried up to this point, I believe it is safe to rule those out.

Provided the new Yamaha does well with my Sony BD and TV, I will definitely entertain the idea of using source direct with the Oppo. The 93 has too many good features for me to think about removing it from the system, but I have to point out, the new player is what started this chain of events. smile.gif


Quote:
Originally Posted by bluechunks View Post

@jdryyz
FWIW, I'm using an Oppo BDP-93 with my A2010 (firmware 1.08). I've played with both Oppo HDMi outputs at various times without the issue you experienced once things were dialed in. I would question if the Oppo or your television is defective and causing an issue when linked via multiple HDMI connections as it sounds like a handshake issue. As a side note, i did experience some dropouts when I first connected the Oppo to the Yamaha but all of the issues were resolved when I swapped out and used specific "high speed" (HDMI 1.4) cables. I'm at a loss why this made a difference with non 3D content.
IMHO, I find the HDQ Vida video processor in the A2010 so much better than the Qdeo in the Oppo that I am now intentionally using HDMI 2 "source direct" on the Oppo. In fact, I am so pleased with the A2010 that I was able to remove a dedicated DVDO Edge VP from my setup. YMMV.
post #1528 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdryyz View Post

I'm stumped as well.
Hmmm....

Given the breadth of components that you have experienced the dropout issue it seems the only unit common in every instance is the TV, no?

As you know, HDMI is a rat's nest and all it takes is a single unit's minor and infrequent incompatibility to cause a dropout. I have to wonder if the TV is the culprit, particularly since it was even happening when using the Oppo directly into the TV. I know we can't (yet) completely rule out a hardware failure of your particular Oppo unit on HDMI 1, but if there is one component out there today that has been put through the compatibility ringer it's the Oppo and their user base....not to mention Oppo's stellar firmware support and updates.

Yes, I'm grasping at straws.
post #1529 of 2855
How is the A2010 yamaha with lower impedence/lower sensitivity speakers?

I picked up an A2010 a month or so ago, to replace my RX-V1600 (which i was quite happy with, except it won't pass 1080p over HDMI).
I'm now upgrading my speakers, and ordered a set of Polk's LSiM speakers (703 bookshelfs, 706c center, and the 702f/x surrounds). these are rated at 88db sensitivity and "8 ohm compatible"... But as the previous polk Lsi series were 4ohm, i expect these may be somewhat lower than 8ohms as well...

Any experience or opinions on how well the yamaha will drive these? Im toying with the idea of an external power amp, but if i don't need it, id rather save the money...

Thanks!
post #1530 of 2855
Agreed. The TV is the only remaining HDMI device that has not been changed. I will not be able to doing anything about it, though. I will have to alter the system in favor of the devices that work together vs the single one that does not.

Oppo has not been contacted regarding the possibility that my player is flawed in this area. I may consider doing that once everything else has been eliminated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluechunks View Post

Hmmm....
Given the breadth of components that you have experienced the dropout issue it seems the only unit common in every instance is the TV, no?
As you know, HDMI is a rat's nest and all it takes is a single unit's minor and infrequent incompatibility to cause a dropout. I have to wonder if the TV is the culprit, particularly since it was even happening when using the Oppo directly into the TV. I know we can't (yet) completely rule out a hardware failure of your particular Oppo unit on HDMI 1, but if there is one component out there today that has been put through the compatibility ringer it's the Oppo and their user base....not to mention Oppo's stellar firmware support and updates.
Yes, I'm grasping at straws.
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