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The "official" Yamaha AVENTAGE RX-A710/810/1010/2010/3010 thread - Page 9

post #241 of 2855
I'm still struggling with Automatic lip sync, which just seems not to function.
I have a small request for A?010 users who have their TVs/projectors connected with receiver with HDMI cable and all other equipment runs through receiver.
Could you please check Receiver Setup/Sound/Lipsync/Auto (click on Auto even if it is checked). Is your Offset also 0ms and slider grayed out? If not, what TV are you using?
Thanks.
post #242 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by PRR24 View Post

I'm still struggling with Automatic lip sync, which just seems not to function.
I have a small request for A?010 users who have their TVs/projectors connected with receiver with HDMI cable and all other equipment runs through receiver.
Could you please check Receiver Setup/Sound/Lipsync/Auto (click on Auto even if it is checked). Is your Offset also 0ms and slider grayed out? If not, what TV are you using?
Thanks.

The monitor must support auto lip synchronization in order for the feature to function. If the monitor does not support it then adjustments have to be made manually. My 2009 Panasonic television supports auto lip synch but only when used with a Panasonic AVR.
post #243 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbhpi View Post

The monitor must support auto lip synchronization in order for the feature to function. If the monitor does not support it then adjustments have to be made manually. My 2009 Panasonic television supports auto lip synch but only when used with a Panasonic AVR.

Does anyone have a success story of Aventage receiver to auto-lipsync-cooperate with any TV/projector/monitor?
post #244 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by PRR24 View Post

Does anyone have a success story of Aventage receiver to auto-lipsync-cooperate with any TV/projector/monitor?

The "auto" synch function is not what it seems. It requires source material (BD) that is encoded for this function and almost none of them are.

If you have synch issues, you should look for the problem elsewhere. More often than not it's the result of video processing in the display. (audio is ahead of video). That would be corrected by manually applying audio delay in the AVR.
post #245 of 2855
Hello all. I am hoping that you can help with this. My father just upgraded to a 1010 from an old pioneer avr. The sq was always great, but he upgraded because he needed hdmi. Anyway I set up the 1010 for him and ran Ypao. Sq is great on the net input listening to pandora, even though it's compressed the enhancer does work well. The problem is when we switch to the cd input and listen to a cd. The sq is nothing close to what it should be. We are using the same cd player as before. I am sure that this may be a setting that I am overlooking. Any ideas?
post #246 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

That would be corrected by manually applying audio delay in the AVR.

And it's a tedious job.
post #247 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbhpi View Post

And it's a tedious job.

Audio delay should remain constant over different sources or material. If it doesn't, then the issue is clearly in the display and should be addressed there. IOW, once you set the delay you shouldn't need to change it. 24p image processing is one common source of lag in a display.
post #248 of 2855
The 810 is DLNA 1.5 certified but does that mean I can stream video? The Yamaha website says it streams audio.
post #249 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

Audio delay should remain constant over different sources or material. If it doesn't, then the issue is clearly in the display and should be addressed there. IOW, once you set the delay you shouldn't need to change it. 24p image processing is one common source of lag in a display.

If it would be constant, it would be one time job to set it up manually, which is no big deal.
Reality is far from it. Different source materials take TVs different amount of time to process. And this is not because of their processors are too slow, but because there are actions just cannot be done without knowing upcoming video frame. For example, you cannot detect and reverse 3:2 pulldown without knowing a frame ahead. So it effectively adds delay. On the other hand 25fps material, you don't need to wait for next frame and can show it immediately.

We should not forget that audio processing is getting more and more complex as well and more and more data is being used to produce a quality sound. So there is also audio delay.

I would simply expect TV to tell receiver, that hey, I need 116 ms to process this video stream and receiver to tell that I need 32ms to process audio with current sound field, speaker positions and all the Adaptive DRC/DSP stuff.
So receiver knows that it has to hold back audio for 84ms and that's it.
Or achieving the same result by letting each other know which frame they are finished processing. Just like it is happening in DirectShow graph in your computer when you play back any video.

For some time I was under impression that HDMI 1.3 lipsync functionality takes care of it. My impression was backed up by friend of mine who runs Sony receiver with Sony TV. He confirmed not to encounter any lip sync issues. Is it possible, that Sony is using some proprietary method to get its equipment synchronized?
post #250 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by griffpa View Post

The 810 is DLNA 1.5 certified but does that mean I can stream video? The Yamaha website says it streams audio.

No video, audio only.
post #251 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

The "auto" synch function is not what it seems. It requires source material (BD) that is encoded for this function and almost none of them are.

If you have synch issues, you should look for the problem elsewhere. More often than not it's the result of video processing in the display. (audio is ahead of video). That would be corrected by manually applying audio delay in the AVR.

Rather serious lag can also be created by the video processing in the AVR (if that feature is enabled), not only in the display.

Btw. I have a A3010 and a Epson 8350 projector (it should have lag of 10-18ms). I have fiddled with the lip sync setting in the AVR but I can't get it setup perfectly when I play Guitar Hero (video processing is off on the A3010). I don't think it's the displays fault in this case (10-18ms should not be noticeable). Will try some more later today.

Anyone know of anything else that can be switched off to decrease input lag further in the AVR?
post #252 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by vredg View Post

Rather serious lag can also be created by the video processing in the AVR (if that feature is enabled), not only in the display.

Btw. I have a A3010 and a Epson 8350 projector (it should have lag of 10-18ms). I have fiddled with the lip sync setting in the AVR but I can't get it setup perfectly when I play Guitar Hero (video processing is off on the A3010). I don't think it's the displays fault in this case (10-18ms should not be noticeable). Will try some more later today.

Anyone know of anything else that can be switched off to decrease input lag further in the AVR?

IIRC Guitar Hero has its own internal lag calibration setting for both audio and video. After calibration, you should not notice any issues not depending on the lag or sync caused by external components.

To reduce lag, disable video processing and minimize audio processing on the receiver (sound field off, enhancer off etc).
post #253 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by PRR24 View Post

IIRC Guitar Hero has its own internal lag calibration setting for both audio and video. After calibration, you should not notice any issues not depending on the lag or sync caused by external components.

To reduce lag, disable video processing and minimize audio processing on the receiver (sound field off, enhancer off etc).

With my last receiver I never had to calibrate in-game. But I'll try do turn off all the audio processing (video is already off) on the receiver. And in worst case I'll have to callibrate the audio/video in the game.

Thanks.
post #254 of 2855
I can't seem to get lower audio lag (according to calibration in Guitar Hero) than ~60-75 ms. I've disabled all video/hdmi processing. And turned off all audio processing under the options menu on the remote. Pure direct mode doesn't do much either. I've also turned off the PEQ.

Isn't it strange that audio lag should be 60-75 ms when all processing in the AVR is turned off?
Video lag is according to calibation ~20-30 ms.

Or is there a option that I have missed to turn off?
post #255 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by vredg View Post

Isn't it strange that audio lag should be 60-75 ms when all processing in the AVR is turned off?

Yes, that sounds too high if you turned off auto lipsync and made sure the manual lipsync delay is set to 0ms. Pure Direct should have significantly less delay than other modes, but not if you feed it a bitstream that has to be decoded (in that case it's not really Pure Direct, despite the setting).

So make sure your source is sending PCM (or better still do a test with analog connections), and the delay in Pure Direct mode should then be almost 0. With processing enabled, I would expect more like 40ms through the AVR than 60-75 (based on tests with older Yamaha AVRs), but you also have to add the distance you're sitting from the speakers (~1ms per foot for the sound travel time).
post #256 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

Yes, that sounds too high if you turned off auto lipsync and made sure the manual lipsync delay is set to 0ms. Pure Direct should have significantly less delay than other modes, but not if you feed it a bitstream that has to be decoded (in that case it's not really Pure Direct, despite the setting).

So make sure your source is sending PCM (or better still do a test with analog connections), and the delay in Pure Direct mode should then be almost 0. With processing enabled, I would expect more like 40ms through the AVR than 60-75 (based on tests with older Yamaha AVRs), but you also have to add the distance you're sitting from the speakers (~1ms per foot for the sound travel time).

Thank you for the great answer.

Yes, I have lipsync set to manual, 0 ms.
Regretfully the Xbox 360 can't sent PCM like the PS3 can (I think), and I don't have any rhythm game for the PS3 to test.

I sit about 9 feet from the speakers, so this shouldn't increase the lag more than 10 ms.

Do you have any idea how much lag the decoding of the 5.1 DD stream could introduce? Anyway, I didn't notice any lag on my old Denon receiver (decoding DD 5.1).

--

One more thing. One strange thing is that the calibration results in Guitar Hero and Rock Band 3 differs from each other. In GH I use audio lag: 60, video lag 20. In Rock band, after calibration, the values are ~ 100 ms for both. I've rerun the calibration several times and the results is always approximately the same. So I'm not sure if either game is a good tool to measure input lag (in that case, which one..?). I use the G.H drum set, so perhaps it's this that causes the added lag in R.H in some way.
post #257 of 2855
DD decoding shpuld be very fast generally. But to eliminate all possible delays from HDMI and video circuit, you can try to use optical/coax or analog audio cable + pure direct mode.
In my conf, A1010, no lip sync, stereo PCM, Rock Band 3, the audio delay is approx 30ms.
post #258 of 2855
~30ms sounds reasonable for the single DSP A1010. The 2010 and 3010 are dual DSP designs (the first mainly does decoding and then passes results to the second for post processing), so a longer delay is possible as each DSP buffers some data before processing it. But that depends on how they implemented the code and it's not inevitable, so it would be interesting to do the same lag test on both models and see if there really is a difference.
post #259 of 2855
I'll give optical cables a try.

That more expensive models are more laggy sounds a lot like projectors. Expensive models often have more input lag because they have more video processing build in.
post #260 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6t9cuda View Post

Hello all. I am hoping that you can help with this. My father just upgraded to a 1010 from an old pioneer avr. The sq was always great, but he upgraded because he needed hdmi. Anyway I set up the 1010 for him and ran Ypao. Sq is great on the net input listening to pandora, even though it's compressed the enhancer does work well. The problem is when we switch to the cd input and listen to a cd. The sq is nothing close to what it should be. We are using the same cd player as before. I am sure that this may be a setting that I am overlooking. Any ideas?

I don't have the answer, but nobody here has answered so I suggest you post this in the Yamaha Rx-v671 forum - you'll get an answer fast. It's quite active, and I've seen questions like this answered all the time. I'm thinking it's a common Yamaha setting, and not specific to the 1010.
post #261 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6t9cuda View Post

...I set up the 1010 for him and ran Ypao. Sq is great on the net input listening to pandora, even though it's compressed the enhancer does work well. The problem is when we switch to the cd input and listen to a cd. The sq is nothing close to what it should be. We are using the same cd player as before. I am sure that this may be a setting that I am overlooking. Any ideas?

It could be Adaptive DRC is on. If you switch to the CD player using a SCENE, then Adaptive DRC is on by default for certain SCENEs. I think this is a mistake and Adaptive DRC should be off by default, but on is still the default for SCENE 2 on the A1010 (it was the default for SCENEs 1 and 2 on the A1000).
post #262 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6t9cuda View Post

Hello all. I am hoping that you can help with this. My father just upgraded to a 1010 from an old pioneer avr. The sq was always great, but he upgraded because he needed hdmi. Anyway I set up the 1010 for him and ran Ypao. Sq is great on the net input listening to pandora, even though it's compressed the enhancer does work well. The problem is when we switch to the cd input and listen to a cd. The sq is nothing close to what it should be. We are using the same cd player as before. I am sure that this may be a setting that I am overlooking. Any ideas?

I guess it depends how you define "should be". For me, it means as natural and direct as possible, so I would suggest to try pure direct mode.
But not all agree with my taste, so you may want to experiment with sound fields, enhancer, adaptive drc etc.
post #263 of 2855
Boy, I almost strayed to Denon becasue of Audyssey,but I was so satisfied with my
V1400 sound and reliability that I had to try an A1010. Now that I have it mostly setup the way I want, I am very satisfied with the sound/power, HDMI switching and net. Bought the A1010 rather than the V series 671/871 based on weight/bigger power supply,3 year warranty. I am really pleased how easy it was to set up watching a Tv input over HDMI while using a different audio source.
If you want a Axx10 series at a reduced price I suggest you call your favorite Yamaha authorized net dealer, and ask for their best price it should be better than what they put on their site. I got a good deal from Onecall. I guess I should also mention the craftmanship and overall build quality of the unit is superb,real aluminum on the front, I like the new lighting it matches my DVR and bluray player lights.
Old Mike
post #264 of 2855
Edit.. I got it working.

Can someone please tell me what the display on a 710 says when using DTS MA. I looked in the manual but I didn't seem to find anything.
post #265 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by mf15 View Post

I am really pleased how easy it was to set up watching a Tv input over HDMI while using a different audio source.

I am trying to do this right now on my 3010. I haven't found in the manual how to go about setting one video source to use a different audio source. I can't seem to get mine off of the "Auto" setting where it is just using the HDMI audio. I'm sure I'm missing something pretty simple....any suggestions?
post #266 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluewater 84 View Post

I am trying to do this right now on my 3010. I haven't found in the manual how to go about setting one video source to use a different audio source. I can't seem to get mine off of the "Auto" setting where it is just using the HDMI audio. I'm sure I'm missing something pretty simple....any suggestions?

See my posst 206 in this thread. As far as I know this only works with non digital sources, tuner,net sirus,usb,these get converted to analog internally. Part of the instructions are on page 95 under video out.
Old Mike
post #267 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by mf15 View Post

See my posst 206 in this thread.
Old Mike

Yes I already know that I can have video while using the Tuner/Sirius/Network Source/USB. I am trying to change "Audio Select" to use an analog source and not the HDMI source.

EX: AV2 is my UVerse box. If in input an analog audio source under AV2 I want the receiver to use it so I could listen to a different source while still watching TV.
post #268 of 2855
I just had an update on my 810. It went well but I can't find where I can read what this update was for. I looked on the Yamaha page but can't find anything. Does anyone know what this update is for or can tell me where to look?
post #269 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluewater 84 View Post

Yes I already know that I can have video while using the Tuner/Sirius/Network Source/USB. I am trying to change "Audio Select" to use an analog source and not the HDMI source.

EX: AV2 is my UVerse box. If in input an analog audio source under AV2 I want the receiver to use it so I could listen to a different source while still watching TV.

I don't quite understand what you are saying. My comcast box is connected to av2,the way I have it set up is so I can watch any tv station and play say pandora at the same time, but I get no audio from the tv station. You can also make a scene 5 that does this.

Are you trying to input an audio source external from the AVR such as a CD player.
If you are hitting the option button then audio select, mine is set to auto, i can change it by hitting the > on the remote to coax/opt,or analog. You might also have to change something in setup under function input assignment. Not sure have not messed with this yet,have no reason to. See page 114 if you have an a1010 or search input assingment in your manual.
Old Mike
post #270 of 2855
Hello all, first post here, but have been reading a while. New to the home theater game and really enjoying my experience so far. Have an 810 and in the process of tweaking the settings, I've somehow managed to get the receiver and the television out of sync. My set up is a Bravia LED via HDMI to the 810. From day 1, turning off the tv via tv remote would result in the 810 powering down, or vice-versa. I could power off the 810 and it would power the TV down. That changed a few days ago, and try as I might I can't figure out what I did or how to correct it. I'm sure it's something simple and with my limited experience I'm just overlooking it. Any ideas? Thanks and sorry for what's probably a very obvious question to some.
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