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post #481 of 580
The JVC utility is just one more tool. I find it useful for how I work, but obviously others would not. I measure a tool's usefulness by how much I end up using it, and I use it a lot. JVC or Panasonic, 60i or 24p - it doesn't care. I have a 39TB array for storage, as well as smaller 6TB HDD arrays and even smaller SSD arrays on my systems. Space is not an issue for me, either. Utilities like the JVC come in handy in the earliest winnowing of the chaff from the wheat. And with the way I shoot, I have a LOT of chaff. biggrin.gif
post #482 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

For, me, the Edius and JVC utilities are a moot subject since I don't even have them, nor plan to. It's a question of either the Panasonic HD Writer or Device Explorer for import of camera clips.

My usual procedure in the past has been to use the PMB for initial import of a large number of clips on the camera memory and later if I need to pull in a couple more, usually less than 10, I will use the device explorer in Vegas.

Observation- When PMB pulls in the clips from TD10 it sets them up as m2ts files with good names to state when they were shot. The Device explorer pulls them in as similar file names but this time as MTS files. Not sure if that matters.

I have not tried to use device explorer for a large number of clips so I don't know if it handles them any better or not.

Opening Device Explorer does require the launch of the Vegas NLE but that hasn't been a real hindrance here as the NLE is usually open anyway.

Currently, the Panasonic SD cards will try to open PMB to import but the version that imports TD10 files does not see the files on my Panasonic SD cards.

A feature I like on the HD Writer is you can scrub the thumb nail of the clip and see what's in it.


As far as playback, all my utilities will play the clips just fine, but only in 2D.

I know full well that you have your own method for managing projects, Don, but here's how I usually work, for anyone who might be interested. It also speaks to how I use the JVC utility, no matter which camcorder's clips I'm using.

After a shoot, I pull the SD card from the camcorder (JVC or Panasonic) and pop it into the card reader on my PC (usually my everyday system). I drag all the files into a folder that I've named for the event, such as "SG 2013-04-22 SBE Shots." This stands for "Shaw's Garden April 22, 2013 Stereo Base Extender Shots." (My shots are usually no more than 10-15 seconds for most subjects. More complex shots or shots with action that I'm following are, obviously, longer.) I rename all the shots with the folder's name by selecting all of them in Windows Explorer, right clicking the first one, selecting "Rename" and pasting the folder name into the box. Windows appends a sequential number to each file.This gives each file a very descriptive name and keeps them in chronological order for me, which is very helpful later when I edit. I keep these folders in my everyday system (6TB 2-drive 7200rpm RAID0), usually for quite some time. I also copy this folder to my 39TB UnRaid array for permanent archiving. At this point, I often sort the bad clips from the good ones to simplify things later. This is when I find the JVC utility most useful, since I can end up with dozens or even hundreds of shots. For a big project that requires me to shoot over a period of several days, I create a master project folder on my editing system, with sub-folders organized by area or topic. I try to keep all assets (video clips, nat sound, music, script, everything) in one large folder with standard sub-folders. I sort the clips from the different shoots into the sub-categories/folders. For a huge project like my Garden video, this allows me to know at a glance how clips will fit into the grand scheme. When the time comes to organize a sequence, I pull the pre-sorted clips into Edius (usually organizing them there into separate sequences for the timeline), then drag them around into a rough order in the bin. Then I fine tune the sequences, by trimming and adding dissolves, etc., and drag the sequences into a final master sequence, which I can use to export the whole video to a file (for Vegas 3D rendering) or render to Blu-ray in Edius directly (2D only at this point).
post #483 of 580
Thread Starter 
I undestand quite well that you use the tool for organizing the footage - together with windows and the bin structure in Edius. I do that in a similar way - I run a proect folder on my raid, have the separte sub-folder for every project - and in the subfolder I use some sub-folders for clips, additional audio, project files and rendered output. Typicallly that is enough for me.

I have also seem that the footage organisation will depend on the total number of clips - a huge project will need additional structure, but at the moment my projects are not so huge.
post #484 of 580
Sometimes I find some rogue clips with strange thumbnails, I review and discover that was just a bad problem on the opening but the rest is good so I keep it. Then I may find the clip looks good in the thumbnail but really doesn't show anything I would use. So, I dump it before capturing. The thumbnail scrub is very efficient for this in the HD Writer.
post #485 of 580
I'm sure we all work essentially the same way when we do projects. The one additional step I take is to save the whole project folder from Edius to my server. Since everything is in one folder, it's a simple matter to go back and revisit a project. I can copy the whole thing back to the editing drive(s) and get right to work. I sometimes also copy the project to archive-grade Blu-ray discs as an added precaution, in case something fries the server. Fortunately, that's never happened so far.
post #486 of 580
Joe- I've been doing that step for over a decade, since the beginning of all digital NLE edting. I even keep photoshop and other stuff in a folder all under the client's or project name. These are not stored on on-line hard drives. These are stored on internal hard drives I plug-in to a tray. They are not fast drives, mostly old IDE drives but they are good large cheap storage. This concept works on all PC type editors but it does not work for Final Cut Pro. I got into a big fight with Apple over this a few years ago.
post #487 of 580
Imagine that - Apple doing stuff exactly the way they wanted to, no matter what the customer wanted. Sounds like Final Cut Pro X. biggrin.gif
post #488 of 580
Just want to say thanks guys for your ongoing info here. Sadly, my TD10 (insdie a padded case) made a drop a bit more than designed for... The left lens is out of sync and tried everything to get it back, but giving up and purchasing the Z1K. Thanks Don for info on the NAB "no show" on other devices. The price has dropped and since you're getting one, I feel good about it.

I read and appreciate your info folks.
Thanks,
Dan
post #489 of 580
Yes Dan I am quite pleased with my Z10k. I shot quite a bit of time on it in Las Vegas and Death Valley earlier in the month. The image quality is indeed superior to that I shot with my TD10 in 3D mode. Sorry to learn of your bad luck with the TD10.

You will probably want to make an adapter plate for the Z10k to relocate the mount screw to the center of gravity. I did on mine and it makes a huge difference when using the camcorder with a tripod or monopod.

post #490 of 580
Thanks for that Tip Don, I'm sure I'll have some questions once for you folks once I start goofing around with it. Can't wait.
Dan
post #491 of 580
Does anyone have original (not recoded) AVCHD MTS files of Panasonic HDC-Z10000 in 3D/2D to see the quality of footage (small files 5--10sec).


Also HDC-Z10000 is a 2011 model, is there any news about new Panasonic 3D camcorder as a replacement this model? Does any other company (Sony/Canon etc) announcement plans for similar camcorder in the same category?


Thanks.
post #492 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by civil78 View Post

Does anyone have original (not recoded) AVCHD MTS files of Panasonic HDC-Z10000 in 3D/2D to see the quality of footage (small files 5--10sec).


Also HDC-Z10000 is a 2011 model, is there any news about new Panasonic 3D camcorder as a replacement this model? Does any other company (Sony/Canon etc) announcement plans for similar camcorder in the same category?


Thanks.

Here are a couple of shots. They're not very attractive, but if all you want is a general idea about picture quality they may suffice.

Shot 1
Shot 2

These shots are 12 and 14 seconds long.

There's been no announcement of new camcorders that I've heard about. The surge of innovative and inexpensive 3D camcorders was short lived. Maybe when Cameron releases the first Avatar sequel we'll see another. smile.gif
post #493 of 580
Thank you my friend...

Maybe after the 1st (and 2nd in few days) Hobbit they will try to produce models with 48fps 3D (in my dream).

Panasonic quality looks good for this price.

Thanks again.

P.S. Nice neighborhood wink.gif
post #494 of 580
Thread Starter 
I think we will not see new s3D-cameras in the foreseeable future. Cameras like the TD1 but even the professional Version has been withdrawn from the market, and even the other companies are reluctand to Launch new models. That seems to be drifen by the low market demand for such cameras.

So if you are happy with the footage of the Z10K I would recommend to purchase one - as long as they are available in the market. The model will not be available forever, and the 3D-hype is over.
post #495 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by civil78 View Post

Thank you my friend...

Maybe after the 1st (and 2nd in few days) Hobbit they will try to produce models with 48fps 3D (in my dream).

Panasonic quality looks good for this price.

Thanks again.

P.S. Nice neighborhood wink.gif

Yes, the image quality of the Panasonic is very good, and it's a versatile performer. However, I 've had a couple of issues and need to send it in for repair. One of the zoom rockers doesn't work properly (won't zoom in), and the convergence control doesn't always respond. My JVC's have been like little tanks - no issues at all. The Panasonic has had a lot less use, so I'm hoping this isn't a sign of bad things to come. But this sort of thing happens with any model, so it may be just the luck of the draw with this particular unit. Anyone else had similar problems?
post #496 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang S. View Post

I think we will not see new s3D-cameras in the foreseeable future. Cameras like the TD1 but even the professional Version has been withdrawn from the market, and even the other companies are reluctand to Launch new models. That seems to be drifen by the low market demand for such cameras.

So if you are happy with the footage of the Z10K I would recommend to purchase one - as long as they are available in the market. The model will not be available forever, and the 3D-hype is over.

I fear you're right. That's why I'm happy to have the 3D gear I purchased over the last three years.
post #497 of 580
Thread Starter 
I had also technical issues with my first Z10K. After half a year when Shooting by holding the camera in my hands the two frames started to shift slighlty in the vertical direction - similar as if you move one of the two pictures upside. I had significant troubles - first to find out who is resonsible for the camera service and gurantee here in Austria (Panasonic does not run a clear policy if the camera is supported by the consumer or the broadcast distribution organistation). Then the unit was in service in Germany- and came back with the comment that everything is ok, what was not true. Sending the unit again to the service - then they decided to send me a new camera back.

Well, I am satisfied that the decided to give me another camera - but the troubles were significant.

Another issue that I see with the camera - at least with my unit - is that it is hard for the autofocus to focus manually in low-light situations. Even with using the Autofocus the Focus jumps from 40 to 80 or so (in the range 00-99) - so the best way is to go into zoom and focus manually. That is not ideal if you use the camera to shoot events like weddings.
post #498 of 580
That's unfortunate! Mine is out of warranty, so I'm also wondering what the repair costs are going to be.
post #499 of 580
Thread Starter 
Seems to be that you and I were the unlucky guys. But there are a lot of other users who did not have issues with the Pana Z10K - at least according to what I hear so.

There are a lot of users who think about to purchase a Z10K even now. So the camera is still not outdated and still of interest for a lot of s3D-fans. And I still think that is is a great camera, even beside the repairing issues that may happen.
post #500 of 580
That's good to know. Thanks, Wolfgang.
post #501 of 580
Quote:
One of the zoom rockers doesn't work properly (won't zoom in)

I'm having the same issue with my Z10K. The sub-zoom lever and sub-record button no longer function. Not a huge deal really, because I prefer the main zoom rocker and main record button anyway, but something that should be fixed for resale value.

Other than that it's a great 3D camera, and have used it heavily infield over the last year. I've also owned the TD-10 and 20 and can say that the Z10K is better in every way except portability.
Quote:
I think we will not see new s3D-cameras in the foreseeable future.

I think you are right. No new 3D camcorders out of CES this year. The Z10K is also no longer available from B&H.
Amazon appears to be down to their last 3 in stock. Could be a collectors item before long.

I'm also delving into 4K now with that new announcement from Sony.
post #502 of 580
Hi Don. Where did you buy the IR Remote that you are using ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

This might be where you use the red outlines on the parts of the scene that are in focus. Expanding the LCD for extreme zoom to aid in focus was something I had on my old HVR Z1U and now have on the NEX5n The Panasonic Z10k has this FA mode or Focus assist.

Wolfgang- The pole-cam setup is what I use to raise the camera above the people in a crowd to shoot a stage or parade. I use my monopod but fix it into my belt buckle and extend it up from there. I can get the camera to about 9 ft. in the air. I use the Lilliput remote monitor and a hardwired remote control. It's one of the best tools I use and carry with me at Disney.

This is the setup for the TD10: ( Sorry but the forum image viewer doesn't seem to be working this morning, only attachment )



RemoteFullview.jpg 388k .jpg file

RemoteMonitorLancCtrl.jpg 496k .jpg file

I discovered the remote works quite well and the Z10k has a button that sets the HDMI output for either recorded video alone or I can set it for on screen data display including access to full menu navigation.
post #503 of 580
The IR remote for Z10k came with the camera kit. But you can find them separately by searching ebay or amazon.
post #504 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang S. View Post

For the Z10000, the best method to record is 1080 24p.


Why? First of all, that is specified for 3D BD-R - if you acquire in 1080 50i or 1080 25p, you allways will have to convert the footage either to 720 50p or (with some effort) to 1080 24p. So1080 24p is specified for 3D BD. Second, you have the advantage that you use a progressive format, what has the advantage that you do not loose resolution due to interline flicker. Third, even with the Z10000 and 1080 24p movements look fine so far - so no issue here.


To create 3D BD, use the function to burn blu rays from the timeline, and use the template 1080 24p from the Sony AVC/MVC encoder.


And yes, you MUST upgrade to Vegas Pro 11 in the latest build - in the older Vegas Pro 10 the MVC-decoder is not able to handle 1080 24p really, also not in the first Vegas Pro 11 builds.


Now in 2014 is the Vegas Pro 11 that is able to handle 1080P still the way to go for creating 3D Blu Rays from 3D video recorded on the Z10000 in 1080 24P? Or is there an updated version of Vegas that is preferable? I am assuming that there could be some significant cost savings in locating the 2011 version. (With the cost down to what I originally paid for my Sony TD-10, I finally bit the bullet and have ordered a Panasonic Z10000 primarily for the benefit of being able to make 3D Blu Rays directly from 3D video recorded in 1080 24p.)
post #505 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

Thanks, Don. I'll do that. I was one of the first people to get a Steadicam JR when they came out years ago. I got decent with it after some practice. The Blackbird I've never mastered. But I put the Z10k on it the other day and was able to fly it smoother than I ever did the JR. But, it was too much on the arm. I'd be worn out in a few minutes. CamotionLLC, the Blackbird company, makes an adapter for the Steadicam Merlin vest and arm to make the Blackbird a little better fit, and they recommend the Steadicam vest for a camera as heavy as the Panasonic Z10000. I don't have any back problems.

Wow, I just came across my Stedicam Jr. in a box that I had purchased years ago and never got around to using. Think it would be an effective tool for use with the Sony TD-10 or Panny Z1000?
post #506 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthTV View Post

Wow, I just came across my Stedicam Jr. in a box that I had purchased years ago and never got around to using. Think it would be an effective tool for use with the Sony TD-10 or Panny Z1000?

Most definitely, but the Panasonic almost certainly would be too heavy. Try it with the Sony. It's an ideal weight for the JR, and you should be able to get it balanced very well. Please post some short clips if you can.
post #507 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

Most definitely, but the Panasonic almost certainly would be too heavy. Try it with the Sony. It's an ideal weight for the JR, and you should be able to get it balanced very well. Please post some short clips if you can.

Thanks for the response. Looks like my planned purchase of the Panasonic is on hold due to some availability issues at the advertised price. The Sony HD-10 is at the Texas service center so for the moment I am without 3D video capability. In my prior shooting the Sony had such good image stabilization I was pretty happy with it but I understand the Panasonic is not at the same level so would probably be the most to benefit from some external stabilization device.
post #508 of 580
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthTV View Post

Now in 2014 is the Vegas Pro 11 that is able to handle 1080P still the way to go for creating 3D Blu Rays from 3D video recorded on the Z10000 in 1080 24P? Or is there an updated version of Vegas that is preferable? I am assuming that there could be some significant cost savings in locating the 2011 version. (With the cost down to what I originally paid for my Sony TD-10, I finally bit the bullet and have ordered a Panasonic Z10000 primarily for the benefit of being able to make 3D Blu Rays directly from 3D video recorded in 1080 24p.)

Well, both the actual Vegas Pro 12 but also the actual Vegas Moviestudio 13 are capable to edit MVC footage from the Z10K. In terms of the s3D capabilities the difference is small - with Vegas Pro you may have in addition the DVDA that is capable to author 3D-BDs (with 2D menus but the rest is fine). Be aware that the new Vegas Pro 13 will be presented at the NAB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthTV View Post

Wow, I just came across my Stedicam Jr. in a box that I had purchased years ago and never got around to using. Think it would be an effective tool for use with the Sony TD-10 or Panny Z1000?

I decided to use the Glidecam HD4000 for the Z10K - what works fine up to 4.5 kg. The Z10K is not so heavy, but you have to calculate also the weight of an additional light, of additional XLR-microfons, maybe of an additional monitor that you may wish to use with the Glidecam - what has again a battery pack. The glidecam HD2000 with 2,7 kg may not be enough either.
post #509 of 580
Joe-

FYI

Spent the day shooting with the cyclopital wide angle adapter and it did very well here in Monument Valley. When I needed to remove it for more telephoto range, I could easily work the tightening knob and off it came. I have an inner pocket in my jackett that in big enough to hold it and the lens shade while shooting with it off.

The additional wide angle range worked great here for the scenery and range. I also shot with the twin NEX 5n and the IA of 12 inches seemed to be right for the size of the scene. The reason for this smaller IA is due to my discovery here that 16mm and wider lenses I had with me, just made the rock structures too small. This would have been exacerbated with larger than 12". I brought a. 20" bench with 16, 12, and 9 mm lenses but won't be using them. Instead, the 18x55 mm lenses will be my choice.

For 3D settings on the Z10k I am at near maximum at C85 or higher since the scene is no closer than 50'.
post #510 of 580
Glad it's proving so useful for you, Don. In addition to the portability and ease of operation, another thing about that Cyclopital3D WA adapter is the optics. It has a multi-element lens that maintains all the Z10k's excellent image quality. It's also valuable to me in the more "confined" and intimate settings where I more frequently use it.
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