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Sony MDR-DS7500 - World's first HDMI lossless 7.1 surround decoder/headphones

post #1 of 233
8/31/11 at 10:16am
Thread Starter 
Google Translate Link

Didn't know where else to post this, so I thought I'd post it here. This one looks like a definite buy for me. I already own a pair of wireless Pioneer Dolby Headphones, but as an apartment dweller I've been waiting for something like this for a long time.

Apparently it decodes all the major formats, 7.1 PCM, DTS-HD MA, TrueHD, etc,etc. Also matrixs Pro-Logic IIz.
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post #2 of 233
1/5/12 at 7:55pm
Thread Starter 
Sony Japan Link

Well, being that I bought one of these on eBay today I thought I'd start this thread up again.

I'll be posting my impressions of it whenever it comes in from Japan.

What I'm trying to figure out now is if I'll be able to hook my receiver (has 6 HDMI inputs) directly to this device as it only has 3 hdmi inputs. Maybe I need to buy a HDMI splitter?
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post #3 of 233
1/5/12 at 8:51pm
These HPs look very interesting. I look forward to your thoughts on how they sound and work when you get them. Will they be available in the US in the future?

Bill
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post #4 of 233
1/5/12 at 10:00pm
Thread Starter 
I'm not sure as to if they'll be available in the US. I don't think the earlier MDR-DS7100s were available in the US so I assume not (especially not at the prices at these command). You never know though, if there is enough demand for it anything is possible (but once again, because of the price, I doubt it).

For me, as an apt dweller I didn't have much problem investing in a product like this. I loved my Pioneer Wireless DHs, they served a purpose, and what with the invent of the lossless format they no longer do so.
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post #5 of 233
1/5/12 at 11:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveFi View Post

What I'm trying to figure out now is if I'll be able to hook my receiver (has 6 HDMI inputs) directly to this device as it only has 3 hdmi inputs. Maybe I need to buy a HDMI splitter?

It looks like you can daisy chain it. Send the AVR's HDMI output to the Sony, then on to the display. My guess anyway.

I wonder why they didn't go for 9.1 rendering, backs and heights together.
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post #6 of 233
1/6/12 at 12:06am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

I wonder why they didn't go for 9.1 rendering, backs and heights together.

Got me. I guess there's only so many channels you can suitably simulate to the ear from 2-channel headphones. Diminishing demands and whatnot? Could be a processing issue as well. From what I've read though, the processing power used in these are more than 2x the power in their previous iteration so it probably justifies the higher cost.

Here's a review I've found on a Japanese website if anyone's interested.
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post #7 of 233
1/6/12 at 8:02pm
Thread Starter 
I ordered a $15 Rocketfish HDMI splitter off eBay just in case. Only thing is I think I'm going to burst with anticipation waiting these 2+ weeks for these to show up.

I really hope they don't get hung up in customs.
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post #8 of 233
1/10/12 at 8:39am
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Arrived today, wow. 2 Days from Japan to my door (Boston burbs). Could be a record.

Will give opinions later.
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post #9 of 233
1/10/12 at 4:27pm
Thread Starter 
Ack! Can't get it working! Must be missing something! Anyone read Japanese?

Not really sure what I'm doing wrong. Have the video and audio looped through properly. I am getting a "beep, beep, beep" tone out of the headphones so something is happening. I hit lots of buttons but since I can't read the manual I'm not exactly sure what I need to do at this point.
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post #10 of 233
1/10/12 at 7:53pm
Thread Starter 
OK, to update- I figured it out. There is no passthrough- (at least there isn't on my receiver- maybe because I don't have ARC? I doubt it, probably just no pass-through on this thing, a big oversight). I have to feed each input individually!!! (D'oh!!!). I'm going to have to work this one out.

On to the headphones. From my initial impressions with DD+ sourced material off Netflix streams this is the most realistic and best headphone imaging I've ever heard! The headphones are no slouch either. A really wide dynamic range- much wider than my previous Pioneer Dolby Headphones. I'm going to have to test this some more later with true lossless sources.

Now I'm just going to have to figure out how to feed 6 individually sources to both my receiver and the headphone amp. I got my HDMI splitter from eBay today, but I don't think that will cut it because that will just split the feed off the receiver. Anyone figure this one out will win a big cookie.
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post #11 of 233
1/10/12 at 8:02pm
Glad to hear you got it working at least. We have a set on order that will be hand carried back from Japan in a few weeks, so I am keen to hear them.

Not sure why the AVR's output isn't happy feeding the phones. Does the AVR have any options for HDMI settings, like "amp" or "TV"? Does your AVR manual describe what sorts of audio can be forwarded? Which AVR is it?
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post #12 of 233
1/10/12 at 8:20pm
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I have a Pioneer VSX-1020K. I know it doesn't have ARC, but I don't think that's the problem. What really threw was that the HDMI feed looped through this thing actually works, well, at least it gives picture and audio to the receiver the way it should, it's just that there's no audio out of the headphones. None at all. Nada. Zilch...Unless you feed the headphone amp's HDMI inputs sources directly. I guess the ARC input in the headphone transmitter just does what it says- works with TVs and isn't for HDMI passthrough. Big oversight.

I wonder if I run the receiver feed through the HDMI Splitter might work because it's supposed to be an amp as well? Probably not but I'll give it a shot anyways.

Otherwise I'm stumped how I'm going to feed this thing without too much hassle.

The transmitter doesn't really have any particular "settings" for TV, it just sort of sets itself. It does have a few various soundstage settings. The usual stuff. What is kind of cool however is that it turns itself on automagically when you put it on. (I wish my girlfriend did that ).
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post #13 of 233
1/10/12 at 10:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveFi View Post

Ack! Can't get it working! Must be missing something! Anyone read Japanese?

I hit lots of buttons but since I can't read the manual I'm not exactly sure what I need to do at this point.

I found the PDF of the manual here. The Japanese text can be cut and pasted into Google Translate, so at least a few key passages can be deciphered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveFi View Post

I have a Pioneer VSX-1020K. I know it doesn't have ARC, but I don't think that's the problem. What really threw was that the HDMI feed looped through this thing actually works, well, at least it gives picture and audio to the receiver the way it should, it's just that there's no audio out of the headphones.

I have never tried cascading two decoders in the same path. But it sounds like uou tried both arrangements,
Sources-->AVR-->MDR-->TV, and
Sources-->MDR-->AVR-->TV ?

I realize you cannot use the latter because it lacks inputs, but just to confirm whether it works.
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post #14 of 233
1/11/12 at 6:17am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

I found the PDF of the manual here. The Japanese text can be cut and pasted into Google Translate, so at least a few key passages can be deciphered.

I have never tried cascading two decoders in the same path. But it sounds like uou tried both arrangements,
Sources-->AVR-->MDR-->TV, and
Sources-->MDR-->AVR-->TV ?

I realize you cannot use the latter because it lacks inputs, but just to confirm whether it works.

Yeah, the first thing I did was d/l'ed the manual. It didn't help much because it didn't describe anything similar to my problem. I thought I was missing it but apparently not.

So MDR->AVR->TV? Not exactly sure what you mean. How I had it set up was exactly how it was pictured in the manual:

Receiver HDMI out to HDMI input on MDR (ARC)
ARC output on MDR to Receiver HDMI in (or at least I think I did)

That resulted in both video and audio on the my setup. I think the problem is that my receiver and the headphone amp are essentially two totally different entities and require two different feeds. Meaning one only supports, 96k, the other supports 192k, etc, etc. So I will have to figure something out.

I will have to figure out how to manage this with HDMI splitters/switches.
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post #15 of 233
1/11/12 at 6:23am
I have a four in, 2 out HDMI matrix switch box that could possibly help you out (if I understand the issue correctly). The two outputs are independent--If source 1 is going out of output 1, then output 2 cannot also use source 1--it can use any of the other three. And so on.

You could connect your sources to the switchbox (it has a remote), connect one output to your AVR and one to your headphone source box. You could then connect one AVR output to your TV and your headphone source box output to your TV on another input.

This would allow you to to select the source you want and have it sent to either the receiver or the headphones, as you wish. From there, the picture should go to the TV from either the AVR or the headphone box, while the audio should go to the speakers or the phones.

So, four sources in HDMI >> switchbox.
Switchbox output 1 >> AVR>> TV
Switchbox output 2 >> headphone box>>TV

No need to swap cables every time you want to use a source (unless you have more than four). Mine works with HDMI cables up to 35 feet long (feeding a projector that is far from the box as well as fed by a PS3 from another room that does double duty for a total of 70 feet of HDMI--with the box at centre).

My box is not 3-D compatible (if that matters) but I'm sure there are some that are. Mine cost me about 120$ four years ago. Don't know if it is still available. There is a similar device at Monoprice for less than half what I paid (but I live in Canada and had to pay shipping and import duties, the actual device cost about 75$ back then).

This is an interesting device (the headphone thing). How much was it, if it's not too indiscreet to ask?
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post #16 of 233
1/11/12 at 7:09am
Thread Starter 
I have 6 sources so therein lies the problem. I'm really stymied as to how to feed the thing. I was thinking a 8-1 HDMI active switch (before it goes to my receiver), but that would be a pain to manage (and expensive).

As for price- I don't mind you asking. I bought it off eBay for $500, I attempted to use Tenso.com (Japanese forwarding service) first a few times and that didn't go well so I just gave in and bought it this way. Better off anyways, at least if I buy it through eBay I have some sort of recourse (however small) if something went wrong.
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post #17 of 233
1/11/12 at 1:22pm
Thread Starter 
Ah OK, I see what you mean. I think I will need that 4x2 matrix HDMI switch to feed my receiver to this thing. I tried with a standard 5x1 switch and obviously I need 2 separate HDMI outputs for the receiver. What a PITA!

But a 2x2 switch will work fine because I will just feed the receiver all by itself in the chain, then I will route the other outputs to a HDMI switch...Damn this is getting complicated!!!

How's this one look?

Edit- Nevermind, I just bought a Steren 4x2 Matrix switch someone was selling used off Amazon for $55 shipped. Damn headphones costing me much more than I intended. Plus I still have 2 extra inputs I can't even feed it.
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post #18 of 233
1/12/12 at 1:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveFi View Post

So MDR->AVR->TV? Not exactly sure what you mean. How I had it set up was exactly how it was pictured in the manual:

The manual has 2 setups. Let's look at setup #2 on page 16. It shows that the MDR can feed into the AVR, and the AVR feed the TV. If that works, yes it is a problem because the MDR only handles 3 inputs, but you need 6. So you take the new 4x2 HDMI switch, connect 4 of your sources there, one output feeds an inpt on the MDR along with the remaining two sources, and you have 6 inputs again.
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post #19 of 233
1/12/12 at 7:02am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

The manual has 2 setups. Let's look at setup #2 on page 16. It shows that the MDR can feed into the AVR, and the AVR feed the TV. If that works, yes it is a problem because the MDR only handles 3 inputs, but you need 6. So you take the new 4x2 HDMI switch, connect 4 of your sources there, one output feeds an inpt on the MDR along with the remaining two sources, and you have 6 inputs again.

I've tried pretty much everything at this point and nothing works with the transmitter short of connecting directly to it. The only other solution I could see for the extra 2 inputs would be to buy another matrix switcher, maybe a 2x2 (or another 4x2) switch.

Here's how I plan to wire it:

*---->Receiver

Sources (x4)--->Switch---*

*---->Headphone

(Rinse and repeat for the next 2+ sources)
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post #20 of 233
1/12/12 at 11:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveFi View Post

I've tried pretty much everything at this point and nothing works with the transmitter short of connecting directly to it. The only other solution I could see for the extra 2 inputs would be to buy another matrix switcher, maybe a 2x2 (or another 4x2) switch.

Here's how I plan to wire it:

*---->Receiver

Sources (x4)--->Switch---*

*---->Headphone

(Rinse and repeat for the next 2+ sources)

I'm totally lost...

So, are you saying you connected the system components exactly as Sony shows in Fig 2? If it didn't work, what exactly didn't work?
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post #21 of 233
1/12/12 at 11:57am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

I'm totally lost...

So, are you saying you connected the system components exactly as Sony shows in Fig 2? If it didn't work, what exactly didn't work?

I did- exactly as it shows. As I stated earlier, my receiver and TV worked but I got absolutely no audio from the Headphone Transmitter. The only way I got audio from the headphones was by hooking each source directly to the Transmitter. Through the HDMI output of my VSX-1020 receiver I got nada.

I even unhooked the ARC-loop through (no picture) and just did a straight input from the HDMI out of my receiver to each of the 3 HDMI inputs of the headphone transmitter and I still didn't get any audio. There's either something wrong with my receiver or it's something else.
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post #22 of 233
1/12/12 at 5:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveFi View Post

I did- exactly as it shows. As I stated earlier, my receiver and TV worked but I got absolutely no audio from the Headphone Transmitter. The only way I got audio from the headphones was by hooking each source directly to the Transmitter.

But that's what the #2 diagram shows (page 16).

Quote:


Through the HDMI output of my VSX-1020 receiver I got nada.

I even unhooked the ARC-loop through (no picture) and just did a straight input from the HDMI out of my receiver to each of the 3 HDMI inputs of the headphone transmitter and I still didn't get any audio. There's either something wrong with my receiver or it's something else.

That is not what the diagram shows to do. So I'm still not really sure what you did, because what you say is you followed #2, but it didn't work so you changed it, and the change is what is shown in #2.

And if you did find that #2 works, then the problem is solved, right?
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post #23 of 233
1/12/12 at 7:32pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

But that's what the #2 diagram shows (page 16).

That is not what the diagram shows to do. So I'm still not really sure what you did, because what you say is you followed #2, but it didn't work so you changed it, and the change is what is shown in #2.

And if you did find that #2 works, then the problem is solved, right?

#2 might work but if I want to switch back and forth between components without manually unhooking from my receiver every time then I have to buy two separate 4x2 HDMI matrix switches. Yes, I suppose it isn't a big deal, but I thought I was going to be able to pass the HDMI through the device (my mistake - I read it wrong- I translated the ARC as "pass-through" in Google Translate) rather than to shell out $100 more. Oh well. At least it works...
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post #24 of 233
1/17/12 at 12:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveFi View Post

#2 might work but if I want to switch back and forth between components without manually unhooking from my receiver every time then I have to buy two separate 4x2 HDMI matrix switches. Yes, I suppose it isn't a big deal, but I thought I was going to be able to pass the HDMI through the device (my mistake - I read it wrong- I translated the ARC as "pass-through" in Google Translate) rather than to shell out $100 more. Oh well. At least it works...

Just to close the book on this, here's how I would connect it so that all 6 sources were available to the AVR and the headphones with no need to reconnecting anything:

Connect 4 of your sources to the 4x2 HDMI switch. The switch output feeds one input on the MDR. The MDR feeds the AVR. Feed the other 2 sources to the remaining MDR inputs. That makes 6 total sources, all of which pass thru the headphone box into the AVR.

Maybe the diagram makes it clearer. (Note: There is only one output from the MDR box feeding the AVR.)

4 HDMI Sources ---> Switch---> MDR
2 HDMI Sources ----------------> MDR ---> AVR
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post #25 of 233
1/17/12 at 1:19pm
Thread Starter 
I got the switch today and (of course) as I was in the process of hooking everything up to my refurb AVR-1020 its HDMI circuit board died. Another $240 down the tubes. (They wanted $700 to fix - I only paid $240 for it!)
Figures.

Luckily I have my previous cheapie Yamaha refurb receiver in a closet (no one wanted it) but ever since I embarked on this project it's been nothing short of a money pit. On top of everything else now I'll have to save up buy a new receiver. Oh well. Serves me right for buying Pioneer refurbs I guess. Next time I'll stick with Onkyo or better...

But then again, that's why I always have no hesitation on spending decent amount on nice cans, as I can't really use my stereo in apt to optimal effect anyways.

Thanks for the input Roger, I appreciate it. Since I'm housebound with Bronchitis I'll have it going tonight with my Yamaha receiver and give some opinions over the next few days.
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post #26 of 233
1/17/12 at 7:01pm
Thread Starter 
OK. Finally!!! After a bit of HDCP issues with the headphone amp and the 4x2 matrix switcher I got everything working together. On to the phones...

To put it bluntly:

They RAWK!!!

I loaded up the opening scene of Jim Caviezel's Outlander (if you've seen it you know what I mean) DTS-MA and I was blown away!!! The range on these things are really good, and the center and low-end are pretty good too (I like the fact you can adjust them right from the phones for lossless sources)- these are movie headphones all the way.

In the beginning when you put the phones on you might think, "no big deal" but "CINEMA" mode makes a huge difference for movies. Game mode is pretty good- I fooled around with it for a few minutes in some Tekken6 (but I wouldn't use it over dedicated gaming cans).

For movies, if you can't have a decent home setup, this is the next best thing. I am truly impressed. This is so much better than my previous Pioneer Wireless Dolby Headphones it's like a totally different animal. I'll probably be using these for my main listening over speakers now.

Hopefully Sony will come to their senses and bring these to market in the US. Well worth the $500. They are a truly an impressive piece of aural engineering.
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post #27 of 233
1/17/12 at 7:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveFi View Post

OK. Finally!!! After a bit of HDCP issues with the headphone amp and the 4x2 matrix switcher I got everything working together. On to the phones...

To put it bluntly:

They RAWK!!!

I loaded up the opening scene of Jim Caviezel's Outlander (if you've seen it you know what I mean) DTS-MA and I was blown away!!! The range on these things are really good, and the center and low-end are pretty good too (I like the fact you can adjust them right from the phones for lossless sources)- these are movie headphones all the way.

In the beginning when you put the phones on you might think, "no big deal" but "CINEMA" mode makes a huge difference for movies. Game mode is pretty good- I fooled around with it for a few minutes in some Tekken6 (but I wouldn't use it over dedicated gaming cans).

For movies, if you can't have a decent home setup, this is the next best thing. I am truly impressed. This is so much better than my previous Pioneer Wireless Dolby Headphones it's like a totally different animal. I'll probably be using these for my main listening over speakers now.

Hopefully Sony will come to their senses and bring these to market in the US. Well worth the $500. They are a truly an impressive piece of aural engineering.

Why would you not use them over standard gaming cans?

-Erik
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post #28 of 233
1/17/12 at 7:25pm
^^ Thanks for the report. Can't wait to hear them!
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post #29 of 233
1/17/12 at 7:35pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by burritoboy9984 View Post

Why would you not use them over standard gaming cans?

-Erik

For one thing they're kind of bulky. I wouldn't exactly want to wear them hunched over a gamepad/PC config- they don't have a mic, plus they're kind of expensive. Plus they only have a single gaming mode, which means they're not really made for games. But if you have them I'm not saying not to use them, just that they're not the ideal choice.

These are movie cans all the way.

The surround effect is really good in these too. Much, much improved over my previous Pioneer "DH" phones. To be honest I rarely (if ever) heard a surround effect on those and here I could definitely hear stuff whizzing by me as soon as I put the movie on. In fact I was so overwhelmed I had to pause the film!
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post #30 of 233
1/19/12 at 4:16pm
Thread Starter 
I just watched my first full Blu-Ray movie: Transformers - Dark Side of the Moon and boy it was a good one to put these cans through the ringer.

The particularly amazing thing about this movie is its low-end, and I had I had no problem turning the LFE up almost all the way. The headphones were more than adequate to the task, even duplicating that "seat shaking" feeling you'd get when the bass would hit that really low end. I'd feel that sort of "rattling in my bones" sensation- they'd actually vibrate on my head!!! Sweet!

These are awesome phones. Well up to the task of one of the punchiest action movies out there.
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