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It's official. Projectors are obsolete 750" OLED coming this fall from Sony! - Page 4

post #91 of 2063
I think when Sony first introduced OLED displays, they were claiming an on/off CR in excess of a milllion to one, but that would be you nerds, far from perfection.

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post #92 of 2063
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

I could see buying four of these and that's it for projectors. This is probably a videophiles wet dream. I'm seriously putting any future projector purchase on hold until I see one of these in action.

me too. was thinking in buy a projector in next 2 months...think i will wait just to see if this product is any good. xD

PS: dont like title of topic...hope this product dont need this "cheap marketing"
post #93 of 2063
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

If the optics are good, the image should be far better than any Plasma or LCD.

OLED should have essentially perfect black levels, motion handling, gradation, color, no crosstalk..

yes i know but this dont seems a normal OLED screen. xD
post #94 of 2063
My oled cel phone still has a faint glow on a full black screen. The picture is simply amazing, surpassing every other display I've seen.
post #95 of 2063
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsmith808 View Post
My oled cel phone still has a faint glow on a full black screen. The picture is simply amazing, surpassing every other display I've seen.
That's disappointing, hopefully these will be higher quality... after all, it's only a cell phone screen, not a home theatre display.
post #96 of 2063
post #97 of 2063
Thread Starter 
Kraine said "Sorry guys I won't post a lot of things tonight because I'm really tired, but here we go with this strange things a little bit off topic, but the 3D effect on it is really cool"

That's good news from Kraine, who has been really harsh on poor 3D presentations.
post #98 of 2063
I really wonder how the 2D will look. When it says true black levels, will it be similar to high end projectors? I'm starting to become interested in this
post #99 of 2063
Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post
I really wonder how the 2D will look. When it says true black levels, will it be similar to high end projectors? I'm starting to become interested in this
The OLED display on my phone has black levels that are the best I've seen to date. This product has me more excited than any projector coming out this year.. especially since it's fully 3D compatible.

I'll have one as soon as Mark can get his hands on them.

Inexpensive 500 lumen LED projectors and Sony with this new toy out of nowhere... this is a great year for video fanatics!
post #100 of 2063
Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post
I really wonder how the 2D will look. When it says true black levels, will it be similar to high end projectors? I'm starting to become interested in this
Should be much much better, I can see special black full eye contacts being marketed....just to preserve ANSI CR, white eye ball reflections n' all ya know
post #101 of 2063
This product has been around for many decades.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&r...w=1193&bih=628


Yes, some even 3D and HD.

Having used some in the past I can tell you that unless they have and intra-ocular spacing control and a diopter for at least one eye [two features found on nearly all binoculars], they will not work for a large number of people and will be a flop, just like all the versions before them which lacked these controls.
post #102 of 2063
Hey Guys. No cheap marketing by us. The thread starter created the title. I think many might of had the same type of initial thoughts but reading about it and some initial observations by those in Berlin and some thoughts about it I think this item is going to be hot. Just like everything else, the second generation likely we be refined but at 66 years, I am in now. Mad money but WTF, I can't take it with me. And as my boss Alan G. used to say in the old days, its affordable by many.
post #103 of 2063
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
This product has been around for many decades.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&r...w=1193&bih=628


Yes, some even 3D and HD.

Having used some in the past I can tell you that unless they have and intra-ocular spacing control and a diopter for at least one eye [two features found on nearly all binoculars], they will not work for a large number of people and will be a flop, just like all the versions before them.
Create a wider than required 'panel' and shift the image either L or R independently for each eye. Several memory settings if different uses will be using the same head set.
post #104 of 2063
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Having used some in the past I can tell you that unless they have and intra-ocular spacing control and a diopter for at least one eye [two features found on nearly all binoculars], they will not work for a large number of people and will be a flop, just like all the versions before them which lacked these controls.
I just see out of my right eye and was interested in these just for 2D of course but now you have me worried I won't be able to see the 2D image properly. Guess I will wait and see what people say after seeing them at Cedia. If I saw out of both eyes I would be super excited about these for 3D as well as 2D.

Mike
post #105 of 2063
It just doesn't seem real to me yet. Something that projects a 62ft image with goggles on with a clear image with 3D?
post #106 of 2063
Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post
It just doesn't seem real to me yet. Something that projects a 62ft image with goggles on with a clear image with 3D?
I'll let you know what it's like as soon as Mark orders them. I have to see these for myself. Since I have a ton of 3D content, this should be a blast just based on the Gizmodo comments.

If it had Nvidia 3D vision support, PC gamers would go nuts.

Let me know about the Optoma LED when you get home tomorrow. If you think it's a decent HT projector to watch while the JVC sleeps, i'll grab one next week and won't wait for the Acer. My main concern is flesh tones. I believe the saturation will be amped up like the QUMI which I am ok with.
post #107 of 2063
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. Zillch View Post
this product has been around for many decades.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&r...w=1193&bih=628

yes, some even 3d and hd.
Not like this, they haven't. Typical video glasses have used crap LCDs, are low resolution (480p) created a small image, and often didn't even have a high quality video input.

This uses OLED panels. As you do not seem to be aware of the difference, OLED should allow for near-infinite contrast (better than any flat panel or projector) with jet black, black levels.
They are true 8-bit panels and use Sony's Super Bit Mapping technology which allows for excellent gradation.
OLED reponse times are orders of magnitude faster than any flat panel or projector, and should have perfectly sharp motion.
OLEDs are capable of producing very wide gamuts, and Sony has said they're paying close attention to make sure that there is good colour reproduction.
The optics used here create a virtual image of a 750" screen from a 20m distance, rather than a smaller display up close.
Perfect 3D with zero crosstalk as there is a display for each eye.

If they get this right, it could be the new reference for displays: an image larger than most home projector setups, with image quality that betters any flat panel or projector, without taking over your room. (with a projector, you need a large room, velvet on the walls etc. to get the best out of it)


My main concerns would be internal reflections on the optics reducing contrast (surely better than most projector setups though) color accuracy, fill factor and how good the optics are in general - it would be no good if the image is distorted or suffers from bad chromatic aberrations.

I don't think it will be perfect in its first iteration, but with an estimated price of $800, this could be a real game changer.
I have been waiting years for OLED to come along and replace my TV as I am generally unsatisfied with flat panels, but OLED is very expensive and only available in small sizes right now. (ironically, the Sony HX900 I bought last year is the first one I have liked enough to keep more than 6 months)

I have had a few projectors over the years, but after moving house a while back, never really had the room to do it properly, and miss having a giant screen.

This fixes both of those issues, and then some. You get the stunning image quality that OLED brings to flat panels, with the image size of a projector, and at an affordable price.
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. Zillch View Post
Having used some in the past i can tell you that unless they have and intra-ocular spacing control and a diopter for at least one eye [two features found on nearly all binoculars], they will not work for a large number of people and will be a flop, just like all the versions before them which lacked these controls.
They have left/right adjustments for each eye, and should comfortably fit over eyeglasses.



Quote:
Originally Posted by mbw23air View Post
I just see out of my right eye and was interested in these just for 2D of course but now you have me worried I won't be able to see the 2D image properly. Guess I will wait and see what people say after seeing them at Cedia. If I saw out of both eyes I would be super excited about these for 3D as well as 2D.
There is a screen for each eye, and they are independently adjustable. I don't see why it would be a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
If it had Nvidia 3D vision support, PC gamers would go nuts.
As it supports HDMI 1.4, it will work with 3DTV Play for 720p60 3D.

3D Vision would be required for 1080p60 3D (well, 3D vision works by sending 1080p120) as HDMI only does 720p60 or 1080p24. (possibly 1080p30 too, but not from a PC) With these being 720p native displays, that's a non-issue right now.
post #108 of 2063
AVS will order them as soon as Sony accepts orders for them from dealers. Zombie is number 2 on the list, Alan is number 3. But we should have more than enough for those who have preordered already plus a bunch more. I am number 1. If only my mother was still alive.
post #109 of 2063
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k

I'll let you know what it's like as soon as Mark orders them. I have to see these for myself. Since I have a ton of 3D content, this should be a blast just based on the Gizmodo comments.

If it had Nvidia 3D vision support, PC gamers would go nuts.

Let me know about the Optoma LED when you get home tomorrow. If you think it's a decent HT projector to watch while the JVC sleeps, i'll grab one next week and won't wait for the Acer. My main concern is flesh tones. I believe the saturation will be amped up like the QUMI which I am ok with.
I can't wait to take a long look at the ML500 when I get home tomorrow. It's been a long wait for it, ever since June. But that and this new Sony toy will be two inexpensive additions that are very welcomed into my theater. Hopefully, we can get a pre order price less than $785, hopefully $650
post #110 of 2063
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post


There is a screen for each eye, and they are independently adjustable. I don't see why it would be a problem.
So, you think that maybe it will either have a way to put a 2D image to just one of the lens or something like that to accomodate people with vision problems with a particular eye? You would think it would be an easy software adjustment to turn off the left or right panel. Does anyone know on these types of devices for 2D would the left half of say a bluray image be on the left panel and the right half of a bluray image be on the right panel and your brain would blend them together for a bigger effect? I'm sorry I'm probably asking too many questions since no one in the U.S. will get to see them until later this week.

Thanks,
Mike
post #111 of 2063
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbw23air View Post
So, you think that maybe it will either have a way to put a 2D image to just one of the lens or something like that to accomodate people with vision problems with a particular eye? You would think it would be an easy software adjustment to turn off the left or right panel. Does anyone know on these types of devices for 2D would the left half of say a bluray image be on the left panel and the right half of a bluray image be on the right panel and your brain would blend them together for a bigger effect? I'm sorry I'm probably asking too many questions since no one in the U.S. will get to see them until later this week.
Current 3DTV works by sending a 2D image to each eye separately. If you close one eye, you just see a regular 2D image. Each image gives you a slightly different view (same as the real world) and you perceive this to be a three dimensional image.

Sony's 3DTVs all have a button on the remote which will disable 3D when you have the glasses on, and it works by sending the same image to both eyes. (I'm not sure if it's the left or right image) I'm sure this probably has that option as well, though it's only relevant when you're using a 3D source but want to watch it in 2D.

I don't know what problems you have though, so I'm having a hard time understanding how it would be any different from watching regular TV for example.


The advantage that this HMD has over 3DTVs/projectors, however, is that because there are two displays, you have:
  • Full resolution in both eyes. Well, full 720p. (passive TVs halve the resolution)
  • Both images are displayed at once. (active glasses only send an image to one eye at a time)
  • Zero crosstalk as there is a display for each eye. (active/passive 3D systems never quite block out the image for the other eye entirely)
  • High brightness as there is a display for each eye.
post #112 of 2063
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

As it supports HDMI 1.4, it will work with 3DTV Play for 720p60 3D.

3D Vision would be required for 1080p60 3D (well, 3D vision works by sending 1080p120) as HDMI only does 720p60 or 1080p24. (possibly 1080p30 too, but not from a PC) With these being 720p native displays, that's a non-issue right now.
thanks for the info. i've played the PC driving game 'Grid' on the Acer 5360 and think it looks excellent in 3D... can't wait to see it on this device.
post #113 of 2063
I wonder if you could use a 3D BD player with two HDMI outs -- run one to the headset and the other to your receiver and have your subwoofer for base? Just a thought.
post #114 of 2063
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

I don't know what problems you have though, so I'm having a hard time understanding how it would be any different from watching regular TV for example.

My problem is my left eye is a lazy eye and I have 20/400 vision in it and it was discovered too late to try and make it respond with an eye patch or such. There might be an adjustment or setting that makes this device work just fine for me for 2D. I think as long as I can have the entire 2D image be displayed on the right panel it will work. Of course it sounds like I will only see a 375" image instead of a 750" image.

Thanks for your help,
Mike
post #115 of 2063
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post
I wonder if you could use a 3D BD player with two HDMI outs -- run one to the headset and the other to your receiver and have your subwoofer for base? Just a thought.
You could do that if you have a dual HDMI output bluray player or buy a $60 HDMI switcher with dual outputs or if the bluray player will output sound through HDMI and optical just plug the optical to receiver to get bass and then get 5.0 through headphones. Lots of possibilities here.

Mike
post #116 of 2063
Thread Starter 
I just created a title to get people interested in this product. Didn't think it would get this much interest. LOL. I personally don't have any stake or stock in Sony, nor do I work for them. It just seems like a really cool idea, and when I saw that it was OLED......

BTW, Mark what number am I on the list.

Also, the 800.00 figure is not accurate as websites have stated that the MSRP for the US should be closer to 600.00.
post #117 of 2063
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post
They have left/right adjustments for each eye, and should comfortably fit over eyeglasses.
What is their eye relief in millimeters?

Up to how many diopters can you alter one eye compared to the other?

Is there a number scale for either the intraocular spacing or the diopter control (as is typical of high quality binoculars) so one can simply dial in one's correct personal settings, having found their precise values during a previous use, or must one re-adjust both of these controls each time the set is shared between two or more people?
---

Glasstron failed in 1997, failed in 2001/2, and failed in 2009. Better image quality wont save the day here; people simply dont like wearing big, goofy looking, corded (HDMI tethered), heavy (420g not counting the cord, i.e. just shy of a pound) headgear, regardless of quality.
post #118 of 2063
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Glasstron failed in 1997, failed in 2001/2, and failed in 2009. Better image quality wont save the day here; people simply dont like wearing big, goofy looking, corded (HDMI tethered), heavy (420g not counting the cord, i.e. just shy of a pound) headgear, regardless of quality.
Depends on how you define sucess or failure. I can see this becoming successful enough to be profitably produced by Sony and others. But this will remain a niche - just like home theatre projectors are today - and won't replace traditional TVs.

This could supplement rather than replace TVs in many homes. Just like another personal electronics item, mp3 player, has supplemented (or even replaced) the family audio system.
post #119 of 2063
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
What is their eye relief in millimeters?

Up to how many diopters can you alter one eye compared to the other?
There is no diopter adjustment on these as far as I know, just a slider to adjust the pupillary distance for each eye. They are designed to be worn with glasses on. No spec for the range of adjustment yet that I have seen, but it's a fairly standard range for most people, I'm sure it won't be a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Is there a number scale for either the intraocular spacing or the diopter control (as is typical of high quality binoculars) so one can simply dial in one's correct personal settings, having found their precise values during a previous use, or must one re-adjust both of these controls each time the set is shared between two or more people?
Doesn't look like it, but the sliders may be stepped?
http://av.watch.impress.co.jp/img/av...y4_10.jpg.html

When demonstrating prototypes earlier in the year they were using what basically looked like safety glasses with markings on them to get your pupillary distance correct, I'm sure they could throw a pair in the box.

Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Glasstron failed in 1997, failed in 2001/2, and failed in 2009. Better image quality wont save the day here; people simply dont like wearing big, goofy looking, corded (HDMI tethered), heavy (420g not counting the cord, i.e. just shy of a pound) headgear, regardless of quality.
They can't have done that badly if they keep making them. The main difference here is that this is a high resolution, high quality display that creates a large image, and one that has the potential to surpass the quality of any current HDTV or projector, released at a time where there is a comparatively high amount of available 3D content.

Previous devices had dreadful image quality, small image sizes and viewing distance (30" at 1.2m) terrible connectivity and were designed to be portable devices rather than home entertainment devices.


No-one is debating the fact that these devices have been around for years, and have been universally terrible. What's different this time is that it now looks to be using the best display technology available regardless of form factor. (hmd, tv, projector)

As I said earlier, OLED is basically the best display technology out there, except it's very difficult and expensive to produce in large sizes, and is not suitable as a projector technology, only flat panels. This should effectively give you the very best of flat panel technology (as much as I enjoy projectors, they can't compete on contrast) with the size of a projector. That's why this is so exciting.
post #120 of 2063
People also like to doubt 3d by comparing it to the past as well. Sometimes ideas are ahead of the available technology. Technology often times does eventually catch up.
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